1:1 Macro

#showtooltip Steady Shot
/castsequence !Auto Shot, Steady Shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command


3:2 Macro

#showtooltip Steady Shot
/cast !Auto shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill command
/cast Steady shot

Hey guys, I've been trolling for EJ forums for a couple years now and I've gotten a wealth of information from everyone here. I do have a question about my hunter and was hoping ya'll could help me out.

First, I'm a BE Hunter My Armory

I've been wading through the 100+ pages here and I'm still a bit confused. I use Cheeky's spreadsheet and according to that, a 1:1 shot rotation is more dps then 3:2. My 1:1 macro is your standard /castsequence, and I use Manito's macro for 3:2.

After doing 1-2 hours of Dr. Boom tests I average about 820 dps (without my pet) using the 3:2 macro, but when I switch over to the 1:1 macro I am only dishing about 795ish dps.

So I guess my question is simply, am I doing something wrong or is Cheeky's spreadsheet wrong?

Also, I would appreciate any critique regarding my gear. My ranged attack speed is 1.96, but I've seen posts saying I don't need that much haste, and also posts saying I should push it down near 1.9. I have the option to swap out my Dagger of Bad Mojo and Tracker's Blade for a Blade of Harbingers... but I don't know if it's worth it.

Anyway, thanks in advance for any feedback.

1.96 is a very good speed in my opinion, although that is my biased opinion. As far as macro's go, you should use the "3:2" macro always. There is really no good reason for a BM hunter to be using a cast sequence macro at all anymore. What may be confusing you about Cheeky's spreadsheet is that it is modleing a shot rotation, and not a macro. The section below where you select manual/castsequence/spam is there to help simulate the effects of latency.

The point of confusion here, is that calling that macro the "3:2" macro, as it is commonly done, is rather unfortunate. Nowhere in the /cast /cast macro does it state it will fire an auto, then 2 steadies, another auto, and another steady. What it does say is if auto shot is available, fire auto shot, else cast steady. Sometimes this is a 3:2 rotation, sometimes it is not, depending on latency and draw speed. What you are probably finding with a 1.96 is you are getting more auto shots than 2 for every 3 steadies, which is why 1:1 looks better on spreadsheet. Either way, you should stick to /cast /cast, as your Dr. Boom tests have already proven to you.

Thanks! I was also wondering something about the SSO Neck... Everyone rags on the Scryer version, but Cheeky's spreadsheet has it as the 3rd best neck in the game, after the Sunwell crafted one and the BT one... how can that be!

The Scryer and Aldor versions of the neck are supposed to give the same amount of overall dps. The aldor does it by giving you attack power on proc, that increases the damage with your shots. The scryer does it by doing direct damage to the target. The pitfall in the scryer version is that the damage it does can be dodged, parried, or missed, but you will always get the attack power from the aldor version added to your attacks. So the aldor version seems more reliable in that regards.

My experience with the Scryer's version of the neck, which I have been wearing for a while, has been that the proc is worth about a 10-12dps increase overall. Based on spreadsheet calculations, this is slightly better than the Aldor estimates, although its a spreadsheet, and no one, myself included, really thinks the Scryer's version is preferable. The Aldor proc is going to scale with crit, haste, and hit, while the Scryer's version only scales with crit. All in all, its really not that bad, although I would rather have the Aldor proc.

I basically have same kind of problems as others stated here.
The difference is that it seems my dps has been lowering and I don't
know what is causing it.
I suppose it comes down to my rotations as there really don't seem to be any other
explanation. I've been using 3:2 shot rotation most of the time. Just recently modified it
to Manito's version and have not been able to get good testing with it.

I have BM spec (The World of Warcraft Armory - Zeal)
and without any haste I'm sitting at 2.17 attackspeed. Now, I know this is too slow for optimal 3:2
but my only decent solution to get more haste would be Bindings of the Lightning Reflexes and even
those would only get me to 2.14 which is still too slow for optimal 3:2. Besides, I would rather stack
ArP instead of haste.

I have badge crossbow, but according to Cheeky's that would lower my dps. It would be too fast for optimal
3:2 and again too slow for other rotations so I'm using Bristleblitz Striker instead. I also justify it by the fact that
I'm troll and get +1% crit with bow.

For deeper analysis you might want to investigate my raid statistics at Kipu raid statistics.
It's probably best to compare static fights like Najentus and Teron encounters as there is too many
variables on others.

The question here is, what can I do to tune my performance and does anyone know if there has been some recent
fixes or modifications to game-data that would lower my results even if my playstyle has remained the same?

Hi all!

I'm a level 70 BM hunter who is currently raiding Hyjal/BT (Working on Archi and first two bosses down in BT).

I was wondering if someone could take a look at my crit rating in the Warcraft Armory and let me know if it is where I should be given my gear (3/5 T5 and badge gear)?

I have been getting conflicting info as to what what my crit rating should be.

Please note that I was mounted at the time of the Armory snapshot, and replace the Riding Crop with a Tsunami Talisman!

Thanks!

@Zeel: Nowhere is it stated that a 3:2 is an optimal rotation. It is said that 3:2 works out to be better at some slower speeds, but your speed is even slower than that. If you are looking on spreadsheet, try comparing the results of the badge bow at a 1:1 (spam) vs. 3:2 (spam) with BBS. Either way, the same /cast /cast basically applies in practice. Generally, I have a hard time imagining that BBS is better for you without any haste, even considering the troll racial, although I haven't really looked into that racial. And no, nothing has changed in game that will make your dps better by not changing anything, at least not for another week anyway.

@Kiera: Forgive me if I am wrong, but I am guessing that someone has mentioned something about your attack power gems, which is why you would be here asking about crit being "good enough". If you add in a talisman instead of riding crop, you end up at 28.89% crit, which considering your gear level, is not horrible.

I cannot, however, let it you off at that. Your gemming in not appropriate. Its a general consensus that 1agil > 2ap for dps, even if you were specced marksman and had 10% ap scaling. You have a +10ap, 7 stam gem, a +20 ap gem, and you have a +5 hit, +5 agil gem in a red socket and several yellow sockets with 10ap, 5crit gems. The +5hit, +5 agility should go in a yellow socket, +10 agility in red sockets. I understand you may have gotten the quest reward +20 ap gem thats in the pants, but ideally that should change to a +10 agility as well. Regardless of your crit, you shouldnt be gemming AP as a general rule - only exception would be if 10ap/5crit+a socket bonus is > than +10 agility (which to be honest, it more often than not is).

Okies, I've been raiding for some time, but haven't had any access to the Beta or the PTR (What can I say, I was on holiday for the ladt few weeks)

Anyways, I;m trying to put together my 3.0/Wrath build. I'm a Marks hunter; I use Silencing Shot and I really like the way that It's shaping up in Wrath (full silencing/itnerrupt mechanic).

So short version is, I'm lookign for ideas for a Marks build for Wrath/3.0/whatever. My biggest concern is Chimnera Shot; I'm not sure if its worth the points at the moment; otherwise I could put them into BM. Similarily, I've been fishing aorund for ideas for a new Shot Rotation with the changes to Aimed shot.

TYVM in advance.

Nope, I was just curious as to what is a typical crit rating range for hunters around my gear level.

I'm using the hit/crit yellow gems because and crit/ap gems because I wanted to stay hit capped and I wanted to increase my crit rating, and those were the gems available to me via our guild bank. However, that was before I upgraded some gear, including the TT, so I should regem now. I just need to see how many badges I have banked. . .

Thanks!

ok, let me clarify this a bit. I didn't mean that 3:2 was the best possible rotation in any given situation.
I just tried to say that it seems the best possible 3:2 rotation would happen at ~2.07 attackspeed.

on with the numbers:


with my current armory gear, without any buffs whatsoever my stats with my pet would be:

crit 31.53%
hit capped
attackspeed 2.17

3:2 rotation
total dps 1145.31

1:1 rotation
total dps 1093.39

-----------------------------------

with CotRS without any buffs whatsoever my stats with my pet would be:

crit 30.22%
hit capped
attackspeed 2.03

3:2 rotation
total dps 1126.77

1:1 rotation
total dps 1112.72

-----------------------------------

with CotRS, Dory's Embrace and Bindings of the Lightning Reflexes without any buffs whatsoever my stats with my pet would be:

crit 30.33%
hit capped
attackspeed 1.99

3:2 rotation
total dps 1137.08

1:1 rotation
1136.00


I suppose there is more than meets the eye and I really should be looking at different numbers too when
figuring out what gear to use, but I just don't know where to look.
By the numbers above, it would seem that I'm best off with BBS and no haste?

Haste is currently a kind of wonky stat. It depends highly on your weapon speed and latency. Slow weapon means you need more haste to tighten up your rotation to have less dead time between shots. High latency means you can't have as much haste because of the possibility of clipping shots and mangling your rotation.

The best thing for you to do is go out and test both bows/gear set-ups. Cheeky's is a bit weird when it comes to the shot rotation thing in the spreadsheet because it can't always model exact what you'll end up with in game.

For example, for me personally Cheeky's says that a 1:1 rotation with Crossbow is my best DPS bet. This in practice does not mean I use a /castsequence macro to get a 1:1 rotation. I found through testing in game that a /cast/cast macro was a significant DPS gain because any time I had no haste procs (Quick Shots, etc) my rotation was actually a 3:2 and any time I had a haste proc it slipped into the 1:1 rotation.

The thing about Bristleblitz vs. Crossbow is that which weapon is better for you is highly dependent on your gear, passive haste, haste procs/buffs, latency and even FPS. It's also sometimes a matter of personal preference. Many people swear by the 3.0 bows when you get 4pc T6 and Sunwell gear. I personally still prefer my Crossbow, but what's my best weapon may not be your best weapon. It's the kind of thing that you can't really get a definitive answer on unless you go out and test it yourself.


Even if you don't switch out any gear, at least go try and compare BBS to CoRS to see what the difference is in live testing for you. If you find that CoRS doesn't hit significantly less hard and gives you a decent amount of extra shots in the same time then it may be worth it to switch to CoRS.

Hmmmm, so I need to get my crit up a bit more. If I swap my red gems to +10agi and make sure I have crit/agi gems in my yellow slots, do you think that would allow me to raise my crit and stay around 141 hit? Or I would still need a mix of yellow hit/crit and crit/agi gems?

Thanks for your help!

Its really not a matter where AP = X means crit should = Y, although at certain extremes that could be the case. Otherwise survival hunters would freak out about their AP being way to low on the "AP/crit ratio". Its really more simple than that; some stats are just better than others for damage. Agility is effectively always better than double its value in attack power. 5 agility is worth roughly .5 dps more than 10 attack power, when buffed with Blessing of Kings, and roughly .45 dps without BoK.

As far as hit goes, it is the cheapest stat to increase your DPS point for point up until the 142 hit cap. Gemming for over 142 hit in order to become capped is not so beneficial. Spreadsheet calculations say that 140 hit is the breakpoint, where 10ap/5crit gem (or even a 10crit gem) is better than a 5agil/5hit in dps value. 139 hit is the point where a 10agility gem is greater than a 5 agility/5 hit gem (socket bonuses aside). So staying at 141 is good, I wouldn't gem more (or less).

Kiera,

Short and sweet. If you don't have DST, there is no way in hell anything outside of Sunwell is better than the badge X-bow.

Hi..
Sorry if this question has been raised before, but i simply couldnt find an answer thru searching, so here goes..

Planning on a second BM hunter (different server, different faction), and having been outta the game for the past 6 months and am totally outta the loop;

Will DST be a _must have_ for a successful raiding BM hunter in wotlk as much as it is nowadays ?


As i wrote above, im totally clueless of the changes wotlk and even todays patch brings.. Having given away my old account to the neighbours kids when i quit wow, i have no chanse to do any serious research thru a highlevel character on the subject when wotlk is out, and in anycase the difference between a bt raiding orc would be quite different than a freshly baked dwarf

Any and all input on the DST in Wotlk would be really nice, since its a bitch to get ones hands on..

DST isn't a _must have_ now in order to be a successful raiding BM hunter.

Hello all, I've posted here a few times, currently I'm just curious on everybody's current 3.0 talent builds/thoughts on possible rotations?

Here is the current spec I use: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I'm still using the 3:2 rotation while throwing in arcane shots also since the nerf to steady shot, I feel I can do more dps doing something else (possibly even a new spec), I just don't know what!

I was just wondering what the veteran hunters thoughts on spec/shot rotation ideas are.

Thanks.
-Tynn

Same question really! Having been designated the MM hunter, I've been playing around with a new macro for a shotrotation. And failing miserably at it, I might add. Serpent Sting - Autoshot - Steady Shot-Arcane Shot - Chimera. Chimera on every CD keeps it up throughout the fight easily. Unfortunately, this means I have a crazy amount of buttons to push (admittedly, compared to the one button BM macro), and cooldowns to watch. Does anyone by any chance have a solid macro?

Thanks in advance folks!

The joy of the changes in 3.0 is that you don't really need a macro for your shots anymore. For MM, simply open with Serpent Sting->Chimera and spam Steady Shot. Hit Chimera whenever it's up to refresh the sting. Shots like Arcane and Multi really aren't mana-efficient.

Bowezed, for BM, the rotation hasn't changes at all. Just spam Steady Shot (and switch 3 points from Mortal Shots to Careful Aim). You may want to macro Kill Command to Bestial Wrath, and possibly Rabid to Steady Shot, but there's no need to toss in extra shots.

I agree with SpartanKillian for MM rotations.

For each new target, I start by putting up Hunter's Mark, Serpent Sting, and Chimera Shot for an initial big hit. Then its repeat Steady Shot until Chimera is off CD at which point it also refreshed Serpent Sting.

The reasons that we do not use other shots is not only the mana use but also maximum DPS. Also note that with TBC bosses nerfed by 30% HP and the new raid buffs that mana does not currently seem a concern (although it is bound to be different at 80).

The main idea of the rotation is to use Chimera every time it comes off of cooldown since it does the most DPS and refreshes your sting keeping it active.

So then the question is what to use while its on cooldown. The answer can vary depending on how you spec MM and whether you use talent points to buff the other shots. I chose to go the route that buffs my Steady Shot as much as possible since that seemed to theoretically provide the most DPS, especially since I would already be choosing a lot of those talents anyway for other reasons. Hence, I picked up Piercing Shots, Master Marksman (making Steady Shot even more mana efficient that it was before), Marked for Death, and Survival Instincts. Furthermore, as a side effect of the 3% hit from Focused Aimed, you also reduce 70% of the pushback you receive on your Steady Shot, which helps on the fights where it is hard to avoid pushback.

Adding in other shots to this rotation seems to have the double jeopardy of both decreasing DPS and time to OOM.

Some caveats to this from observations:
- Aimed Shot is still useful. It is definitely a good shot to use on pulls. Also, if you chose Improved Steady Shot talent, those points are wasted unless you are using arcane shot or aimed shot when it procs. Hence, if you see it proc, then toss out an Aimed Shot since it will both do extra DPS and cost less mana than normal use. However, if you are not good at monitoring procs and taking advantage of them, then you are better off moving those points someplace else like Wild Quiver.
- Multishot is still good to use in AoE situations if you have plenty of mana. I do not suggest using it anymore on single targets and suggest avoiding the Barrage talents.