Aeigelus

Looking at your armory, you have a TON of +hit. I usually like to stay around 95+ in my hit rating. I rarely miss (maybe once every 2 raids, if that). I would throw a +28 crit scope on that crossbow, and replace the hit/agi gem with an 8 agility gem. Great dps in Gruuls though

 

Rakan

Ok, since this is here, I'll make my second EJ post. First off the logs,

Totals:
WWS
Breakdown:
netigen.com: page error

vs

Loading... (Void Reaver Kill)

The Armory


In Howitzer's log above, he does quite a bit more dps than I do, but when I look at the specific shot stats, I am hitting within a 1-5 dmg points of him the entire time, yet, he has 971 dps, and I have 689 dps. I use a short shot macro of /castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, Auto Shot then I put specials in there when ever they are up (manually). I'm using a windserpent, but that's cause another hunter is using a Scorpid, and the stings do not stack.

My lat is 100-160 and fps is 16ish on boss fights and 4-5 on SSC/TK Trash.

I need a few gems changed, and I'm waiting for the patch to swap +24AP for the +15 agi on my gloves. I cant ever seem to get the chess boots to drop, which would take care of my hit issue (though its seems bigger than normal this fight), even after 6 months of raiding, but the ones I have on now are 95% comparable. Boots of the Endless Hunt. I also need Girdle of Blasted Reaches from Heroic Ramps. I'm using max pots during this log, i.e. warp burgers the entire time, Major AGI pots, and Draniec wisdom, in addition to LotP for the trash, though I was out of range of it for 95% of the VR kill. Also GoA during trash, but it was on only for part of the VR fight.

How can I get higher dps on this? Using Cheeky's spreadsheet I should have near 1k unbuffed, even in my crappy gear. Fully buffed with Rage of Unraveller popped I was at 2550 ap, 1019 agi, and I want to say 43% crit.

How can I improve in a non gear related way as a SV hunter?

Edit: hell, even in a gear related way...if there is something I missed please tell me.
2nd Edit: I know its a bit off of Howitzers numbers here because its a different boss with a different armour value, which I just now realized. But for theory sake, lets say its the same, because I do not have access to any of his logs on VR while he was SV.

 

ruenaros

Been looking around and haven't found an answer, why is scorpid poison rank 4 preferred for poison stacking over rank 5?

 

Cheeky

Becuase it last 10 seconds, providing 2 opportunities to refresh it. The base damage difference is pretty negligable between the two.

Cheeky of Havoc

 

Harwin

It does the damage over a longer period of time(10s vs 8s) - so the stack stays up longer - thus allowing you 2 shots to refresh it instead of 1.

 

Cheeky

The Autoshot DPS scales based on weapon speed, but Steady Shot doesn't. While the [Sunfury Bow of the Phoenix] will have slightly higher damaging Steady Shots than the [Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle] the gun is shooting them 0.2/2.9 = 6.9% faster. That turns out to be a huge difference.

I did a calculation once that showed for a BM Hunter any RAP value over -300 (that is negative) equates to the rifle being a better DPS weapon than the bow in a Auto/Steady rotation.

Cheeky of Havoc

 

Kaladian

God i love Blizzard and the way they set things up. For the longest time the xbow from BWL was the best weapon in the game becasue it was the slowest, now they have all the SCC + weapons in the 3.0 range but they will not out dps a 2.7 weapon. When will someone at Blizz understand the true mechanics of the hunter class.

 

Kaber

I would in no way, shape, or form recommend that anyone reduce their hit rating below 136 (89 with sure footed). It is the cheapest and most effective item budget for improving DPS, short of Haste which we do not find in any quantity until T6. There is absolutely no reason to tell someone they need to reduce their Hit Rating in order to improve their DPS. In fact there is every reason in the world not to. If you have between 100 and 136 and would gimp yourself by trying to stack +hit, fine, stay where you are until you find some nice upgrades, but again, asking someone to cut their hit rating to stack other stats is just going to reduce their damage for no good reason.

 

Kaber

1) Howitzer is not survival. He will naturally do at least 200 DPS more than you at the same gear level, and he is way further along in progression and gear than you are.

2) Compare apples to apples. Hydross and Void Reaver will naturally have different DPS amounts, plus void reaver is very dependant on how lucky you get with the arcane balls for personal DPS as a ranged class. Void reaver is a bad fight for hunters.

3) In cheeky's sheet you aren't taking in to account the armor to the boss, which usually reduces damage by somewhere around 20-30%. It is also theoretical damage, so I prefer looking at the damage increases as ratios as opposed to actual damage I will be seeing in game.

You seem to have a pretty decent ratio of specials to auto, but another 15 steady shots and a few more multi shots would put you up another 10,000+ damage. I would compare your personal DPS to the DPS of your BM/MM hunters. You did more over-all damage than the BM, and only around 50-100 lower actual DPS. I'd say that's pretty good. I've only been at the top of the Void Reaver DPS meter once, and that was because we happened to only have 1 melee when we usually have at least 5-6.

What does your shot rotation look like? Normally you want to go for something with 2 specials every other shot like this:
Auto
Steady
Multi
Auto
Steady
Auto
Steady
Arcane
Auto
etc...

And finally gear:
Ignore those set bonuses. They are worthless. You gain 4 stamina by dumping 4 agility - why? Sure, stamina can be nice for taking hits, but honestly as survival you will likely have well over 10k HP with raid buffs. The stamina does nothing for you in a raid environment, the agility on the other hand does a lot for you. Same goes for that chest piece - dump that set bonuses and fill every slot with agility. Honestly, 2 MP5 is not worth losing 16 agility.

You would probably do better to pick up the Felstalker Breast plate from your local Leatherworker. It has good agility, 3 sockets for more agility, and lots of AP. Though it doesnt look like a very large upgrade, so if you just saved your money and instead socketed agility you'd be pretty well set.

 

Rakan

Kaber TY for the review.


edit: Howitzer was SV for that fight, but regardless, I need to compare apples to apples, because as you said, VR does not = Hydross

 

Arche-j

Question.
What are the exact benefits of a +5bow skill (Troll racial passive) against a ??boss lets say for example Gruuls.
Since the max hit rating one should aim for is 137, what would it lower to if i have +5bow skill?
Also if it does more damage, if so, how much etc.

 

Kaber

+1 skill is around 0.1% hit if I recall correctly. 15.7 Hit rating is 1%, so, that's about 1.6 HR you can lose per +skill.


And Rakan, Howitzer is in Black Temple with Tier 6. If he didnt out DPS you by that much I would have actually been amazed. I know the log you posted is from may/june, but 3 months ago I would expect him to have been in Tier 5 at the very least. You are barely in T4 right now.

 

Drrakkainen

Agree, but at this point my latency cut in, ofcourse I understand that it's ok to delay few shots a bit if you still manage to get more shots and that's what I'll try next time.

This bring another question, is there a rate of fire where you'd benefit more from +12dmg scope than from +28critrating one? Provided of course hit is capped.

That was my actual intention, I could with a little help of friends get mats for +30hitratig scope in less than 2h and 20g, that's a lot of hit but it's cheap and it don't force me to use too many items I don't like. Yes I plan to change the scope but I need some love from either Att/Aran/Illhof/Prince to get few better +hit items.
Even simple calulation show that one more crited shot is just wasted if you miss other one

 

Kaber

You're already at 140 Hit rating, which is slightly above the cap. Are you saying you want the 30 hit scope to bring yourself to 170, or that you want to lose some of your current hit gear to allow for it? If you actually need the hit rating (which you don't), the 30 HR scope is the best scope you can get. Otherwise, the 28 crit scope is the best out there.

 

Grogzor

I read this question and was like...hmmm, I am going to go look that up.

According to WoWwiki, it mentions something about if a mobs defense skill is >10 your weapon skill, each point reduces your chance to hit by .2% So on a boss mob which has a defense rating of 365 compared to a rating of 350...you would have a 3% chance to miss due to skill differences.

According to WoWwiki, if you got 5 weapon skill it would take the difference between your attack and his defense to 10 making each point worth .1%. So effectively, +5 weapon skill would grant you 2% tohit for the first 5 points.

Not sure how true it is, if someone knows the truth maybe they could update WoWwiki ;-)



Also, for criticals, it goes off on some tanget about a cap on criticals...I always though a critical was higher ranked then a miss so if you ever got to the point where a crit and miss were fighting over the same spot, the crit would win...anyone else know?

 

Naela

Hi,
This is my first time posting here but I saw this thread pop up just as I was about to post my question on one of the other threads.

I was wondering about the 0.5 second cast time to auto-shot and whether this starts counting when the timer starts or when you finish casting your steady shot?

This is because I've seen that the Don Santos rifle is supposed to be better than Sunfury with a BM spec but my BM spec and Sunfury give me a 2.1 attack speed which when you take away the steady shot gives me 0.6 seconds left. Does the auto shot cast take up these 0.6 seconds because then that would only give 0.1 left for lag/human error.

My haste calculations might be wrong but with the 2.7 rifle you have a speed of :

2.7 / 1.15 / 1.2 = 1.95

When you take away the 1.5 steady shot you're left with 0.45 seconds which seems to me would delay your auto shot if its cast time was starting at this point (even more with a kill command?).

So my main question is:

Does the auto-shot cast time take up these time windows left after a steady shot or does it start as soon as you start to cast steady shot as long as you remain standing still?

Thank you, these forums are amazing!

Naela

 

Seraphism

Posted this orginally in one of the hunter threads in public discussion but moved it here.

Just a quick question for any other non-us based players in regards to latency. (slightly OT but theres been a bit off talk about it so thought i'd check in here) How much do you find it affects shot rotations? I've recently started playing WoW again quitting before TBC come out and I'm currently specced survival. I like the utility of survival (for EW and traps for outside of raiding) but as other posters have said, macro's are almost completely unusable with an average 500 ping. And I can't seem to reliably fit in one steady + special. Do most non-us players just bite the bullet and spec BM? Or do I just need to practise my rotations more?

I realise this isn't a personal advice thread but I feel it's relevant at least for those of us who have to deal with high latency. Is it advisable to be specced anything besides BM with a ping of 400+ or is it simply a matter of adjusting to the high latency?

 

Groggan

We don't actually know and there really is no reasonable way to find out unless someone could somehow reach 100% crit and fire a statistically significant number of shots with 0 hit rating to show no misses.

However, the general consensus is that we are on a 1-roll system where a crit can not miss. A way to think of it is you have a 100-sided dice. You have 25% crit, 5% miss. We could say a roll of 1-25 means you crit, a roll of 26-95 a hit, and a roll of 96-100 a miss. That's under a 1-roll system. If we are under a two roll system then things change and a miss can't be a crit (meaning with 100% crit you would still miss 5% of the time in our example).

 

Drrakkainen

Sorry if you misunderstood me, I have this scope already, my goal was fist to cap hitrating (and it's done), then to change some items (like scope) as I get more and better items with +hitrating. For example, if Att would be so kind and drop his neck for me, I'd switch cloak I'm using to the one for heroic badges or crafted, they don't have hit on them so I'd keep my ~130-140 hit

 

Glaurong

Steady Shot cast time is affected by all relevant hastes.

Log Parser for BM Hunters (Right click, save as) - Updated 10/11/2007

 

Kaber

The cast time on Steady Shot is affected by hastes giving it a 1.09s casting time. The global cooldown keeps you at 1.5s between steady shots, but that gives you about .8s to account for latency, human error, and the .5s auto shot timer.

 

Naela

Ah, thanks guys! I knew steady shot cast time was affected by haste but completely forgot to include it in my mini calculations.

Cheers

 

Glaurong

Repost of my parser, it was buried in the BM thread.

Edit: This will only work with standard log strings and a US client. The source is included however so if you know a bit of Java you should be able to alter it for your language.

Edit to answer a question:

Scope damage does not get added to steady shot.

Log Parser for BM Hunters (Right click, save as) - Updated 10/11/2007

 

Groggan

The 0.5 second cast time starts as soon as the weapon-speed cooldown finishes as long as no other cast is in progress. The kicker is that unlike normal casts like steady shot the auto-shot cast can be interrupted (with normal casts you receive an error message about not being able to do two things at once). In practice this means that if you have say a 2.5-second auto-shot speed and you start your steady shot immediately after an auto-shot there will be a .5 second dead spot before the .5 second auto-shot cast begins. This also means that if you cast say arcane shot in the middle of the .5 second auto-shot cast the auto-shot cast will have to start over.

 

Rakan

Wow Web Stats

LB dmg from windserpent...average hit is 154-159.

While I realize that Wind Serpents got the Nerf bat like all hell, I just have to check this.


According to the above, the WWS for my pets LB attack, average hit is 154-159. he's lvl 70, full loyalty, and trained. Now my RAP is 1980 unbuffed, and 25 man buffed for these fights it was about 2300-2400. So, by this calculation below

LB_Damage = [ ( 99 + 113 ) /2 ] + ( (RAP=1980)) * 0.125 * 0.4286 ) = 212.0785

LB_Damage = [ ( 99 + 113 ) /2 ] + ( (RAP=2300) * 0.125 * 0.4286 ) = 229.2225

he should be hitting for the above numbers on average, regardless of resists or mitigation, and my max as you have seen, is not even on par with those numbers. Is my calculation wrong still or am I just missing something?

Edit: or is there a better pet than a WS for a raid situation other than a scropid for a SV hunter, since I'm getting the BM hunter to take the scorpid for more overall dmg.