Right now the MaxSpecials logic won't allow for clipping. So if your weapon is fast enough to have the 2nd special clip it will drop it for just Auto:Steady. I recommend picking the shots by hand to force some clipping.
Ahh! That's what I was looking for.. Thanks Cheeky. I guess the spreadsheet is just too smart for me. ;-P
I have my potential 5 man gear wish-list now, so it's time to plug it into your sheet and see how each works out.
Up until now I've always gone for items with agi over items with low ammounts, but much more crit and AP such as the Ebon Set,
But now most high end hunters have less than or close to 500 agi, and all gems are +16AP, Enchants such as savagery seem more common, And im thinking that maybe im wrong
Until now I've always gone for +8 agi gems first, and then others with agi and something else for metagem requirements etc,
Looking at my gear, should I get the full ebon set, and start stacking on alot more AP? Im worried that I'll loose alot of crit and the general balance off stats I have at the moment
Most people with items close to or similar to mine tend to have stacked way harder on the AP, before now I always thoought items like the T4 Shoulders to be terribly itemised and would take my current merciless and gem them PVE,
Also I realise im over hit cap, this is in anticipation for sunfury and legacy.
Thoughts on Sonic spear vs Blackened with savagery?
So to conclude, please convince me I am either right or wrong in my school of thought in going one way or the other with gear.
Alright, sorry about spelling its very late and I am tired >.<.
Yeah I realise that I have over hit cap, I explained why in my post.
I'm more after a general push in the right direction instead of individual item upgrades,
Do others share my current attitudes towards agi or is the stackin of AP until a certain point ( I hear 2400 is the number) before more actively seaking crit?
8 agility gems are generally the best upgrade you can get, but if you want to get that socket bonus, 8AP and 4 Crit gems are good for yellow, and 8AP and 2Mp5 are good for blue.
My personal goal was to get up to 1800 RAP and 20% Crit and then scale them both up from there with strict upgrades.
Unless you are highly into pvp, you can probably get rid of a whole bunch of health for an increase in DPS.
I use Savagery personally, but when I do upgrade my weapon I will definitely use Major Agility because it is a bigger DPS boost. Full Ebonscale is a decent set to get in addition because for you, you would gain some AP and Crit% from what you currently have and it makes up for the fact that you lost some +hit% and still allows you to upgrade another piece that has +hit%.
I think most hunters value 1 agility slightly more than 2 attack power at the moment. Of course there are gear set ups and spec combinations that I'm sure would shift the balance.
Alright, sorry about spelling its very late and I am tired >.<.
Yeah I realise that I have over hit cap, I explained why in my post.
I'm more after a general push in the right direction instead of individual item upgrades,
Do others share my current attitudes towards agi or is the stackin of AP until a certain point ( I hear 2400 is the number) before more actively seaking crit?
Using Cheeky's sheet, 1 agi > 1 crit ~= 2 ap. This holds true (per the sheet) if I scale my AP up by 1000 points. The ratios for me as a SV hunter are:
1agi = 0.73dps
1crit = 0.62dps
1ap = 0.31dps
Same gear, MM build:
1agi = 0.75dps
1crit = 0.71dps
1ap = 0.36dps
Also, I do not see high end hunters stacking atk power over other stats. I see them stacking 10agi gems in most gem slots and putting agi enchants on everything. IMO you should use the spreadsheet to plot what works best for you but you should find that 1agi > 1ap and with crit vs agi you need to understand the ratios for your build to make a decision. 1:1 agi wins but the two are reasonably close.
I don't pvp, only enough for my arena points each week, Don't let the arena shoulders fool you, they are simply the best dps shoulders I could find until late game content for me,
And the HP, thats all come from gear I have no HP gems or chants, so I don't see how I can loose alot for more DPS,
This sudden change in thought came after talking to the two best hunters on my server, they both recommended stacking alot more AP until a certain point becuase it provides a bigger dps upgrade, they both lean towards AP chants and gear that makes up for the crit lost from AGI with Crit.
EDIT : Yeah I realise 1agi > 1AP, but its so much easier to gain 2AP for every one AGI which is where my delema comes with the current itemisation of the gear I have access too.
OK, I have been looking for this information and cannot find it anywhere. I know that most questions here are about raids, but I have a Heroic question (well, and Moroes I suppose). I am getting a bit tired of having my face ripped off when a Heroic mob resists a trap, and I have no desire to respec Survival just to fix that, only to have to respec back to BM for Kara.
I have read elsewhere (though I can't find that source now) that Spell Hit does affect traps. Has there been testing done to confirm this? If so, then it's fairly easy to pick up [Terokkar Tablet of Vim] (since I never did that quest earlier) and the [Scryer's Bloodgem] to pick up a healthy chunk of Spell Hit. After my trap target is being tanked, I can use a macro to FD/switch trinkets and not even lose out too much DPS for doing this.
With the two peice BL set bonus, as MM I never had an issue dropping my trap 20 seconds before the tank pulled and if it got resisted scatter shotting the mob and dropping a second trap. Then moving to the side and dropping my next one for when it breaks. I have no idea about spell hit and traps but I never had any issue with resists in heroics if I was careful about dropping my first trap early enough to have a second available.
With the two peice BL set bonus, as MM I never had an issue dropping my trap 20 seconds before the tank pulled and if it got resisted scatter shotting the mob and dropping a second trap. Then moving to the side and dropping my next one for when it breaks. I have no idea about spell hit and traps but I never had any issue with resists in heroics if I was careful about dropping my first trap early enough to have a second available.
Well, I don't want to respec Marksmanship, either, so I'm afraid Scatter Shot is not an option. Yes, I do all of the other things, except for the fact that the tank is quite often not willing to wait for trap cooldowns to fully expire. This leaves me with five seconds or so of being wailed on (when one hit is usually sufficient) if the initial trap is resisted before I can lay a new one.
While it's fun in theory you'd be gimping your DPS a lot to wear any significant amount of spell hit, and you'd waste a ton of time in instances. Take the time to go farm gold and respec, or learn to kite and use concussive shot when traps are resisted. Either of these options will be far more effective than using spell hit gear.
edit: Thanks Lumi for correcting me. Deleting the incorrect stuff so as not to confuse and leaving the still-relevant discouragement to wear spell hit.
Hey i was wondering if anyone here could give me some tips on gear i shoudl get to get more agility that i can run Heroics or 5 mans to get (my guild is currently stuck in Kara atm and i dont have time to get on at raid times) The Armory
theres my armory any tips would be great to get
Assuming it works like spells for other classes, there will always be a 1% chance to resist. If memory serves correctly, to get to that point you'll need 6% spell hit for even level mobs, 7% for +1 level, 8% for +2 level, and 16% for +3 level.
Incorrect. There's 4% resist on even level, or 3% for cap. 5% for +1 (4% to reach cap), 6% for +2 (5% for cap). There are no +3 raid mobs (trappable ones anyway), so if you were looking at the survival talent, only one point is beneficial.
(Apologies in advance if the next bit is restating the obvious.) This may not be as pertinent to the initial trap resist problem you're addressing, but when it comes to early trap breaks due to a heartbeat resist, or to filling in the "dead time" between trap duration and cooldown when chain-trapping without trap talents, I've found that using a focus target and Concussive Shot macro makes kiting immensely easier. If the trap lasts its full duration, you can even concuss the mob without breaking the trap this way, so it's slowed the instant it emerges. You can also open with Concussive when the pull starts, then Distracting to peel the mob to you. If you can set up your trap zone some distance behind the tanking location, you can make up several seconds before the thing enters the trap as well - you're effectively doing pre-emptive kiting.
If you're lucky and the mob is vulnerable, you may be able to blow a pet Dash/Intimidate when the concuss wears off to give yourself even a little more time. (Yeah, I know this doesn't work with scorpids. Alas.)
I've also heard some mumbling to the effect that Curse of Elements may affect the trap resist rates in your favor, but I've been unable to find concrete information in that regard. I'd be interested in learning whether anyone has been able to verify/quantify this. (I put that information search aside when I decided to simply suck it up and spec Survival when I needed to do "primary" CC.)
Personally, I find that untalented trapping of things that can rip my face off is, well, like having my face ripped off. If I'm called on to trap in Karazhan, I use a 45/0/16 or 0/21/40 "mixed utility" build (for the Scatter Shot and Deterrence love). Clearly both of these will be lower DPS than "standard" 41/20/0 raiding BM builds, but they're not all that horrible, and make CC so much less painful.
I'm certainly curious as to whether your idea with the trinket swap works, though. I'm one of those perverse people who find the trapping game somewhat fun to play.
The upshot - this curse definitely now stacks with sunder and probably most other armor reduction debuffs. The DPS increase is somewhere between 5.5% (theorycrafted based on guesses about average boss armor) and 10% (empirical testing by Elitist Jerks guild) for all physical DPS'ers in the raid. The EJ shammy posting in the thread is so enthusiastic about it he states "If you have one warlock in a raid, CoR should be on the bosses."
We know that CoS guarantees a 10% increase to warlock/shadowpriest/arcane mage damage, and CoE guarantees a 10% increase for elemental mages. I propose we think of CoR as "up to 10%." I suggest we do the following things:
- First, let's spend some time browsing our WWS logs and try to get a sense for what our warlocks' CoD / CoA output is like.
- Let's compare this to, say, 7% of historical melee dps output to ensure that a gain from CoR will tend to generate more output than a warlock's CoD. At 1,000 shadow damage, CoD does 6200 damage, 103 dps! This means our raid would need to do over 1471 physical for CoR to be better than CoD. This is probably always achieved.
- We should select whether to use CoS, CoE, and CoR based on which of these damage types is most prevalent in a given raid, with a slight bias toward CoS/CoE since we know that these are each worth 10%, but CoR may be somewhat less.
- Still, if the combined number of hunters/rogues/DPS warrs/cat ferals in the raid is substantially greater than the number of warlocks/spriests or mages, then CoR is probably superior to CoS or CoE.
- If there are two or more mages in the raid (1030+ combined elemental DPS), CoE > CoD.
- If there are two or more locks/spriests in the raid, CoS > CoD.
- The above may not be true for certain fights that require a lot of movement and end up with people having DPS scores below 500. Still, even 3 mages with 400 DPS would make CoE > CoD.
I guess the upshot seems to be that if we've ever got 2+ mages in the raid, we need CoE; 2+ locks/spriests, we need CoS; if we have 2-3 more physical damage dealers in the raid than we do shadows or elementalists, CoR is probably better than both. We would never use CoD/CoA unless we had less than 2 DPS'ers who would benefit from a given curse, or we had 4 warlocks in the raid.
Comments?
Now, obviously as a hunter my natural instinct is to start cheer leading for more CoR. With that being said, the actual guild progression means far more to me then my personal DPS.
Here is a link to our guilds WWS history so that you can take a gander and help figure out if we should have a warlock using CoR instead of whatever other curse it is that they would use. Again, if this post is not suited for this forum I apologize and will repost wherever asked.
I think you are correct. I guess it will be one of those "raid by raid" decisions. Usually the top 2 DPS classes we have are physical (me and a rogue), rarely will you see a mage or warlock break the top 2. I wonder how much of a difference it would make though compared to not using CoS or CoE or CoA.
Physical DPS tends to be the bulk of your DPS. In my experience, CoR is basically 10% more physical damage in practice (comparing fixed or narrow damage-range attacks with CoR vs. without on the same boss with other debuffs remaining the same). When you have three rogues doing 1300-1700 DPS, an enhancement shaman, hunters, a DPS warrior, etc., and you add 10% to all their DPS, the result is massive.
We use CoR on everything. Azgalor, Archimonde, Mother Shahraz (one of the best mobs to use CoR on even if you are terrified of your tank dying -- trust me, increasing the worst-case spike size by like 400 damage is well worth shorting the fight by 30-40 seconds), etc. Not on Reliquary Phase 1 and not on Gurtogg during Fel Rage. But on everything else.
I disagree with the notion that if you have three warlocks in a raid, CoR should be on the bosses. If you have one warlock in a raid, CoR should be on the bosses.
There are arguments that with caster heavy raid, that would tip the balance. However, unless you're running with 5 mages and 4 shadow priests, 9 times out of 10, one warlock pretty much means a physical dps heavy raid.
OTOH, no amount of theorycraft would change this:
Too bad we're selfish and CoS is going first. Always.
I'm finding it difficult to meet the blue gem quota for meta gems. Being a Survival hunter, I'm finding that I'm placing Agi and crit gems in my sockets to max out my EW debuff and doing this so far I haven't got one blue gem in my gear. What do other hunters feel are the best blue socket gems for a Survival hunter as I'm confused as what to grab. I was thinking [Infused Nightseye] or [Sundered Chrysoprase] but wasn't sure.
I'm finding it difficult to meet the blue gem quota for meta gems. Being a Survival hunter, I'm finding that I'm placing Agi and crit gems in my sockets to max out my EW debuff and doing this so far I haven't got one blue gem in my gear. What do other hunters feel are the best blue socket gems for a Survival hunter as I'm confused as what to grab. I was thinking [Infused Nightseye] or [Sundered Chrysoprase] but wasn't sure.
[Jagged Talasite] will knock out a blue and yellow requirement at the same time. Two green gems (your epic one works too) and you can stack red to your hearts content. There are a few pieces of gear where the gem bonus makes it better to pick a non-agility gem even as SV but for most sockets agi wins. 1agi > 1crit too unless you are making a good socket bonus off the crit gem.
I'm finding it difficult to meet the blue gem quota for meta gems. Being a Survival hunter, I'm finding that I'm placing Agi and crit gems in my sockets to max out my EW debuff and doing this so far I haven't got one blue gem in my gear. What do other hunters feel are the best blue socket gems for a Survival hunter as I'm confused as what to grab. I was thinking [Infused Nightseye] or [Sundered Chrysoprase] but wasn't sure.
As a SV hunter you need to "get rid" of your 2 x blue gems in gear that gives back an agi bonus ideally. By all means use your [Sundered Chrysoprase] in a slot and a [Shifting Nightseye] in the other.
The two gear choices I use at the moment are [Cobra-Lash Boots] and [Ranger-General's Chestguard] Thus only dropping a total of 2 agi for the trade off of your meta bonus. The stamina gain is just an annoying albeit not bad bonus.
Just a point, your Armory is showing 4/5 mortal shots, whilst you have a plethora of non PvE points in SV. You really should get that 5th point in mortal IMHO.
09/13/07, 12:45 PM
