Ey - I have a quick question about survival. I've started the recent dive into it, with 790 unbuffed agility as survival, what I found is a good amount.
This being said, What steps should I be making to a higher amount. I realize I could replace some gems for more agi, ect, and what not, but what I'm really looking for is a suggestion into a rotation.

I use: Steady/Arc/Auto/Steady/Multi/Auto/Steady/Arc/Auto/Steady/Auto
on repeat.

Any advice and/or macro ideas? I'd love to see anything

Oh. Last thing as far as gear suggestions.
Pheir's Armory

About your shot rotation question, http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t13107-h...n_illustrated/ is a good place to start.

And and your Survival question look // ask here.

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t12346-h...raiding_2_1_a/

For gear [Void Reaver Greaves] from TK or the [Bow-stitched Leggings] from hyjal are upgrades. Swap a few gems. Might look at [Shoulderpads of the Stranger] off Hydross. [Legacy] from Kara is an upgrade as long as you dont fall under the hit cap, otherwise your spear is good. [Gauntlets of the Dragonslayer] are also good off Magtheridon.

The main issue with your rotation is you are following your multi-shot with another special and this will greatly push the time of the auto shot following the second special due to the GCD. For marks / sv, you will want a 1:1.5 shot rotation meaning one auto shot for 1.5 specials. You can also think of it as a 2:3 rotation. In a full rotation this is 4 auto shots and 6 specials as follows:

auto
-----steady
-----multi
auto
-----steady
auto
-----steady
-----arcane
auto
-----steady

#showtooltip Auto Shot
/castsequence reset=10 Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Multi-Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

When you are under pretty much any form of haste, you do not want to be hitting that button because the global cooldown will prevent you from actually firing off many hasted shots. For situations where quick shots / rapid fire / dragonspine / etc are up use this macro:

#showtooltip Auto Shot
/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, Auto Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

On trash where you cant use multi-shot because of CC'd targets running about, you can maintain the same 1:1.5 ratio if you have 5/5 improved arcane shot.

auto
-----steady
-----arcane
auto
-----steady

#showtooltip Auto Shot
/castsequence reset=3 Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

If you do not have 5/5 imp arcane shot then you cant pull this off. You will need the following:

auto
-----steady
-----arcane
auto
-----steady
auto
-----steady

#showtooltip Auto Shot
/castsequence reset=3 Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

Yes - thank you. I woke up this morning and re-evaluated my understanding of the shot rotation thread, and see what you said here is the same there, thanks.

As well, the Halberd of Desolation is better than Legacy (I believe) ... I dont know why you brought up a spear.
I've been trying for the Bow-Stiched, but as of now, we've only killed Azgalor once, but he shouldb't be hard to take down.

One last question. Should I sacrifice Crit in favor of agi? I'm sure the answer is a 100% yes, because of Kings, but I need to ask the question anyway. How much crit is "TOO MUCH" crit to lose?

Thank you for that macro which is inclusive to all shots! I'll just have to figure out how much I like it.
As you can tell, I played the mindless BM prior to now.



*I kind of miss the Aimed shot rotation. It was so purely simple.

BTW: the 5/5 imp arc is for a more mana efficent build, correct? so as surv, one would benefit from a higher damage (Maybe) from Multi?

The upcoming patch should not affect IAotH. The Haste nerf applies to Haste Rating, whereas 5/5 IAotH gives you 15% Haste, not any Haste Rating.

Am I missing something?

You are correct there. The sheet I used was set to use the 2.2 haste nerf calcs which as you correctly point out has no bearing on IAotH. Same result though. FWIW raid buffed using Cheeky's sheet Im seeing that IAotH with a 1:1 rotation is a dps drop compared to the 1:1.5 rotation dps if I do not have my DST equipped. If I do then the results work out that 5/5 IAotH + a DST is roughly the same DPS as 5/5 Master Tactician with a DST, and without a DST Quick Shots is a dps drop if you switch rotations when its up or no real dps gain if you dont. I think it still ranks out that Mortal Shots > Master Tactician > Quick Shots unless you have a DST and then Master Tact and Quick Shots become roughly equal. All of it is far superior to improved arcane.

Ah my mistake. Misread thread titles.

I think the biggest benefit of Quick Shots for a Survival Hunter is mana efficiency. Even with Thrill of the Hunt and 50% crit rates mana is probably an issue in a 1:1.5 rotation. If you find you are downranking shots to stay in mana, why not use Quick Shots for the same purpose, it's probably more mana efficient damage than downranking.

Of course, if you get unlimited mana through a Shadow Priest and Judgment of Wisdom you'd be far better off with Master Tactitian and a consistent 1:1.5 rotation.

This is my first post so bare with me. I have read through much of the theorycrafting posts but have a bit of an anomaly on my hands.

Theorycrafting show's Wolfslayer/Don Santos to be better than Sunfury I understand, but if I fill out Cheeky's spreadsheet with my gear I actually have a small advantage given to the Sunfury and even more for the SSC Bow and S2 Crossbow. The BBW gun is a downgrade if I am going by what the spreadsheet says but that doesn't seem right. I use latency of .2 since I am usually 150ms with a steady/auto rotation for most part.

Now if I change Cheeky's gear in the spreadsheet to sunfury it is an a downgrade for him. So I think maybe there isn't a straight answer on the subject. It depends on what gear you already have and your current build maybe?(I am BM) Or is there something else I am missing?

Seeing how I havent had either Don Santos or the BBW gun drop I haven't been able to do my own testing.

Any ideas would be appreciated. My apologies if this issue is already addressed I was not able to find any situational detail on it.

Thanks again!

Being a dwarf he gets a huge +hit advantage with a gun. He needs 95 +hit instead of 142.

I just started using WWS along with 2 other guildies. The only fights we have are 10-15 wipes on alar, void reaver kills, and gruuls kills. All requiring lots of movement at times and as we all know hunters have minimal dps while moving. Such as running 3/4 way across the room to chase down a freshly popped add that didnt head down the ramps in phase one alar, or running out of shatter and then getting booted sky high to gruul and running out. or getting the wonderful arcane blast focus 3 times in 60 secs in void reaver and running in and out having gotten only an arcane shot off or one steady/auto/arcane in between.

Yet I still think I am way missing the boat. Normally I am specced in a standard 41/20 bm build for raiding, but currently today as I post it's MM for pvp nite. I did however put my raid gear on for this post. My BM spec gives me 1800+ rap, 1.96atk spd, and 27.4% crit .

My WWS is showing me running anywhere between 550dps to 750dps. Plz look at my gear as well and give me a shout at how screwed up I am in my dps for the gear I have.

Generally I spam the stnd auto/ss/kc macro and throw in Arcane shots and scorpid stings for the tanks. However I tend to think I'm not throwing in nearly enuf arcanes and am still clipping.

Please take a look at these reports from wws.

Wow Web Stats

I look forward to a fight with less movement to get a better idea, Should I be up in the 800-900area? Even 1k dps?

Edit: grammatical

Al'ar is difficult for a BM hunter, your pet doesn't get to stay on him for extended periods of time and you spend a decent amount of time DPSing/misdirecting adds.

Your WWS is comparable to an old one I found Wow Web Stats. That was the first time I've done the fight so I'm sure once I get more comfortable with the fight I'll be able to use my pet more. I'd imagine the same is true for you. Experience will also bring faster transitions between targets both of which should make 800-900 dps doable without upgrades.

Your gear is comparable to mine but you need more hit rating.

Edit: Just noticed you can actually see this in those attempts, I start out doing about 650, after a couple attempts I'm up in the 700s, by the last attempt I hit 900.

I would think that of the encounters you listed, Gruul would be a good fight to work on your min/maxing. If you keep an eye on the timers, you can duck behind a pillar and not get thrown across the room which lets you get back to dps'ing much more quickly unless of course you are the unfortunate victim of multiple cave-ins. Other than that, the Gruul fight allows you to stand in the same place for a reasonably long time frame and when you do have to move, it is typically longer than the 5 second timer that WWS uses (I believe that's correct?). The last time we went there, I managed to get 1250dps according to WWS. It's also a pretty good fight for your pet if you can keep them out of cave-ins and if you have a scorpid (which of course will become a moot point soon), its a great place to work on keeping a full buffed stack of poison up for the duration.

But in any event, I don't think I would beat myself up too much on damage on A'lar until you think you have the rotation down-pat on better hunter fights like Gruul.

Glaurong,

So I went back and compared all the sheets and I found the error. At some point I changed my quick shots rotation to a priority rotation that was negating the benefits of the faster weapons. Now I see the difference heh.

Much appreciated!

Rogues should never go with hunters IMO

Typical Rogue group:
rogue
rogue
dps/tank warrior
shaman(ehancement spelling??? preferred)
Feral druid/3rd rogue

Hunters benefit from this, ranked by order they gain (IMO) :
Shadowpriest(infinite mana)
Melee Shaman(Better totems, shaman can drop Agility totem for his own dps and we get mana spring, and to a minor degree SoE for pets)
Resto Shaman(Same as above, just weaker totems. But we do gain mana tide)
Feral Druid(Crit is lovely)
Warrior(Battleshout for pet)

I'm struggling with a DPS lapse lately. Prior to a vacation I took, I was settling in the 800-1000 range on most Gruul/Mag/SSC fights with using a Scorpid. (BM Spec.) Since my return, and having gone back to cat in preemptive move to be less heartbroken with the scorpid nerf, I have been just awful.

How much of a dps loss will it be from high ticking scorpid to cat? And what can I do to stop my sudden habit of clipping autoshots? I use Quartz, but lately, the autoshot swing timer is ... lagging? I will fire a steady, and the AS bar doesn't show up for sometimes 1-2 seconds.

Should I try a macro for a while? (I've never used macros for my a/s rotation, always manually timed it) I just cant figure out what happened that I am messing up so badly now.

This is my first post, and let me first say, great website. I recently respec'd BM from MM for the first time and I'm working on creating some effective macros. I've been working on 2 rotations atm:
1) a basic auto/steady
2) auto, steady, arcane, auto, steady, auto, steady (I'm using Sunfury, so although i push back my second auto in the rotation a bit, i feel that it's worth it to get the increased arcane dmg shot in, and according to my trials at Dr. Boom, it results in the same shots/minute.) Additionally, I have Wolfslayer rifle, and, although i can get about 6 more shots in per minute with a straight auto/steady macro, my dmg results seem to favor Sunfury, is this odd?

With this all being said, I have two questions. Does anyone know a macro to use KC at a specific point in the rotation (only if it is available). I'm trying to fit it into the 2nd macro (above) after the 2nd steady (I should have a moment after the 2nd steady before the auto). I want it to look like: auto, steady, arcane, auto, steady, KC, auto, steady. The macro I'm using currently is:

/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/castsequence reset=combat/6 auto shot, steady shot, arcane shot, auto shot, steady shot, kill command, auto shot, steady shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()

The above macro casts KC correctly sometimes and incorrectly others.

The second question is more simple; do you all BM specs find room for KC when IAotH procs or during Rapid Fire (both circumstances I assume each auto should not be seperated by more than one shot).

Thanks for any help you can provide.

I was pushing between 1000-1200 DPS on a Mag attempts last week with a cat and your gear is a bit better than mine. I've always use a steady/auto/kc macro.

Glau - WWS

My cat was doing between 300-400 dps. When I ran a scorpid it was generally 400-500 if I was good about managing the stack. Overall its a decent chunk of lost DPS but if you weren't good about managing the stack, the change is negligible.

probably a dumb question, but i've never been great with theorycraft.

I'm currently specced 41/20 (The Armory), and was thinking about my trinket choices.

I will soon be exalted with Ashtounge (about 50% right now), and we have just started working on Mother Shahraz. We probably won't go back into SSC, so the Tsunami Talisman is probably out of the question. So my options are Ashtounge exalted, Hourglass of the Unraveller, Bloodlust Brooch, and Madness of the Betrayer (eventually). Which do you guys think would make for the best dps combo?

I've read some good things about the Ashtounge exalted, and it appears as if I will run with that. But of the other three, which do you think is my best option?

Thanks in advance guys.

Just a side note: With my ultimate gear setup, I won't need the hit from the madness.

edit: was just thinking ahead of how i want to spend my dkp, which is why i'm bringing this up

Hmm thanks Glau. Can I ask what macro you use so I can set it up and try it for a week?