Help me please - Page 230

Khassandra · 07/12/08, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by ChaosDancer

(Hes using a wind serpent i am using a cat)

This is part of your problem. If you have sufficient crit, you should be using a wind serpent. Otherwise, you should be using a ravager, not a cat.

Kikuchiyo-OG · 07/12/08, 2:36 PM

Originally Posted by KassadofGorgonash

When the hunter has Blessing of Salvation does that reduce the threat given by the Misdirection? or is the threat from Misdirection based on the tank's buffs only? maybe this isnt the right forum to ask the question on but i've heard conflicting things and was wondering what the answer is. Thanks for the awesome spreadsheet and your time.

--Kassad

To expand, Misdirection is based on the threat generated by the hunter. Salvation would decrease the threat sent to the MD target, +2% Threat to gloves enchant would increase it. That's probably the real reason why hunters "shouldn't" get Salvation. Though the hunter could start a fight without Salvation, send of three shots at full threat then have it buffed since Light is hardly an amazing fourth paladin buff to have if the raid was particularly worried about it.

Neichus · 07/12/08, 3:47 PM

Shot Rotation Woes:
Okay, in short I'm confused on my shot rotation. I'm a survival hunter using the good old badge xbow with a bit of passive haste but not too much. No DST or 4pc T6.

The issue stems from Haste. I was messing with Cheeky's and it was telling me that haste pieces of gear would give me an unprecedented increase in dps if I used them. However, my understanding of my shot rotation was basically one set down in the Shot Rotation Illustrated thread in which I copied http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z...etterShot.jpg; it's served me quite well and my dps has been quite satisfactory in raids. As I understood one would need a 2.5 seconds or slower shot in order to avoid clipping, I already have 2.39 and any more haste would just intensify this issue.

This has become further complicated when I read posts such as [Hunter]Macros de-mythified - Elitist Jerks which talk about how one builds a shot rotation is to simply sub out Steady Shot for Arcane and Multi-Shot. Cheeky's tells me that such an approach would lead to several hundred dps loss on my part.

So to come to my question itself: how is it possible that haste leads to such a dramatic increase in my dps according to Cheeky's while also causing more clipping issues? As haste has a larger effect on my auto-shot time than my Steady Shot cast time it seems like I'll just start clipping harder and harder. Any help would really be appreciated as I've tried my hardest to research this over the last week and have just come up blank.

Elois · 07/13/08, 1:13 AM

Originally Posted by Neichus

Shot Rotation Woes:
Okay, in short I'm confused on my shot rotation. I'm a survival hunter using the good old badge xbow with a bit of passive haste but not too much. No DST or 4pc T6.

The issue stems from Haste. I was messing with Cheeky's and it was telling me that haste pieces of gear would give me an unprecedented increase in dps if I used them. However, my understanding of my shot rotation was basically one set down in the Shot Rotation Illustrated thread in which I copied http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z...etterShot.jpg; it's served me quite well and my dps has been quite satisfactory in raids. As I understood one would need a 2.5 seconds or slower shot in order to avoid clipping, I already have 2.39 and any more haste would just intensify this issue.

This has become further complicated when I read posts such as [Hunter]Macros de-mythified - Elitist Jerks which talk about how one builds a shot rotation is to simply sub out Steady Shot for Arcane and Multi-Shot. Cheeky's tells me that such an approach would lead to several hundred dps loss on my part.

So to come to my question itself: how is it possible that haste leads to such a dramatic increase in my dps according to Cheeky's while also causing more clipping issues? As haste has a larger effect on my auto-shot time than my Steady Shot cast time it seems like I'll just start clipping harder and harder. Any help would really be appreciated as I've tried my hardest to research this over the last week and have just come up blank.

Whether or not haste benefits you would depend on which stat you are sacrificing to get more of it. If you can get your attack speed to 2.0 that would be great. One thing to keep in mind is that haste reduces the cast time of steady shot. So the math of 1.5 sec steady + .5 sec auto shot + .5 sec special shot (arcane or multi) is not quite how things work.

The important thing is to maintain a high rate of fire. "Clipping" is not the end of the world. Even if you lose some shots to clipping, if your overall rate of fire goes up, you are better off. I would recommend trying a Dr. Boom test and use the Recap damage meter. If you highlight total damage, you can see an "intervals" reading. Use whatever approach gives you the lowest number. Latency, reaction time, etc... all matter.

In general I would go for more haste, the 1-1 shot rotation is a pretty good deal. It is very mana efficient.

Neichus · 07/13/08, 2:35 AM

Well as I understand haste reduces the casting time of Steady Shot but not the GCD, which still leaves my Steady Shots forcing some room. So it would in fact be a little less than 5 seconds for two rotations because at the end the second SS would end earlier and give Auto-Shot's .5 second cast time to go. But I'm not sure how big of an effect that is. But thank you.

Cranch · 07/13/08, 5:11 AM

Originally Posted by Bikiniwax

I use Manito's too but I never noticed any significant DPS increase by using it over the 3:2 /cast/cast.

Try testing it against a Blasted Land servant and just count the shots taken over a fixed period of time (I used 60 seconds, and turned off AotH and ensured I also got no random haste effects.)

Elois · 07/13/08, 9:04 AM

Originally Posted by Neichus

Well as I understand haste reduces the casting time of Steady Shot but not the GCD, which still leaves my Steady Shots forcing some room. So it would in fact be a little less than 5 seconds for two rotations because at the end the second SS would end earlier and give Auto-Shot's .5 second cast time to go. But I'm not sure how big of an effect that is. But thank you.

I am not so sure about the effect of haste on the global cooldown. I did a study on shot times (with Cheeky as my subject) and found that shot times varied.

The times listed are the time since the previous shot of any type.

                  Auto      Steady   Arcane   Multi
                  Shots     Shots    Shots    Shots
Average              1.007     1.433    0.340    0.992
Std Dev              1.267     1.150    0.201    0.419
Median               0.718     1.217    0.359    0.854

These were done from from a combat log. These figures are for all periods including those with haste effects and interruptions. The measurements could be affected by latency and I have no way of measuring reporting error.

It looks like the casting time of Arcane shot was affected by haste.

I really don't feel like going through enough combat logs to come up with a statistically conclusive finding. I would say that I have not seen emperical evidence that supports the global cool down being unaffected by haste.

Latency makes this very hard to measure. That is why I recommended a Dr. Boom test. It will include your latency. One thing to keep in mind about Cheeky's spreadsheet is that it puts latency at .2. If your situation is more than .2 you might find that your ideal shot rotation is different, just find Cheeky's latency cell and record the other number.

Rusan · 07/13/08, 1:24 PM

Does anybody know how much crit rating= 1% crit? and how much agi?

Elois · 07/13/08, 1:42 PM

Originally Posted by Rusan

Does anybody know how much crit rating= 1% crit? and how much agi?

At lvl 70
22 crit rating = 1% crit
40 agility = 1% crit

Dafeaz · 07/13/08, 3:33 PM

This may or may not be a repeat question. Please feel free to shoot me in the face if it is.

I am a standard 41/20/0 hunter in a casual raiding coalition that doesn't seem to grasp the fact that hunters perform better with adequate support instead of just being used in the warlock group for ferocious inspiration.

But I digress. I've recently been part of the team that's progressing steadily in The Eye/Serpentshrine/Hyjal, and thus I've been getting decent gear upgrades. However, despite Cheeky's showing that my DPS should be going up, I've been finding it increasingly difficult to even break 1k DPS on trash and 1.2k on bosses, where I used to hover around 1.3k on bosses.

Now, I'm using the Crossbow of Relentless Strikes, and I may be wrong, but this seems to have all happened when I picked up the Scaled Drakeskin Chestguard and its 25 additional haste rating. This brought my statcard attack speed to 2.

Now I've begun swapping in and out of the 3:2 and 1:1 macros on different instances to test their effectiveness, and the results seem to be similar between them.

Cheeky's shows my DPS should be around 1600. I'm struggling to get 1.1k average DPS on the first three Hyjal bosses. What am I doing wrong?

Armory profile: The World of Warcraft Armory

Crowbite · 07/13/08, 4:05 PM

Originally Posted by Dafeaz

This may or may not be a repeat question. Please feel free to shoot me in the face if it is.

I am a standard 41/20/0 hunter in a casual raiding coalition that doesn't seem to grasp the fact that hunters perform better with adequate support instead of just being used in the warlock group for ferocious inspiration.

But I digress. I've recently been part of the team that's progressing steadily in The Eye/Serpentshrine/Hyjal, and thus I've been getting decent gear upgrades. However, despite Cheeky's showing that my DPS should be going up, I've been finding it increasingly difficult to even break 1k DPS on trash and 1.2k on bosses, where I used to hover around 1.3k on bosses.

Now, I'm using the Crossbow of Relentless Strikes, and I may be wrong, but this seems to have all happened when I picked up the Scaled Drakeskin Chestguard and its 25 additional haste rating. This brought my statcard attack speed to 2.

Now I've begun swapping in and out of the 3:2 and 1:1 macros on different instances to test their effectiveness, and the results seem to be similar between them.

Cheeky's shows my DPS should be around 1600. I'm struggling to get 1.1k average DPS on the first three Hyjal bosses. What am I doing wrong?

Armory profile: The World of Warcraft Armory

A couple things. Hunters are best at receiving group buffs, not really giving them. Second, can you provide a WWS report? It's impossible to know if you are screwing up your rotations without seeing that.

Dafeaz · 07/13/08, 7:35 PM

Right.
WWS from our kill of FLK in SSC. 6/14
Etar - WWS

and a WWS from our venture into TK 7/10
Etar - WWS

listerfyne · 07/13/08, 10:34 PM

Hello hunters!

My question has to do with spec on felmyst. I am a bm hunter and I am wondering if their is a good possible way of keeping a pet alive on this fight. The thought right now is that the hunters in my guild may have to go mm to compensate for the damage taken in this fight. Any help will be appreciated. Thank you.

Cranch · 07/13/08, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by Dafeaz

Right.
WWS from our kill of FLK in SSC. 6/14
Etar - WWS

and a WWS from our venture into TK 7/10
Etar - WWS

The thing that jumps out is you shoot more autos than steadies: 230 autos vs 209 steadies on the FLK win, and similar ratios elsewhere. That implies a problem with your shot rotation. Try your rotation out on Dr. Boom until you can get somewhere between 2 to 3 steadies for every 2 autos.