Agility scales better in the long run. An 8 agility gem is equivalent to 8 ap and 4.2-4.3 crit rating. It gives a larger benefit than just using a wicked noble topaz, but at the same time, scales with BoK. It's the most balanced dps stat that a hunter can get.

We also have a 40agi/1crit% ratio. Mathematically, they are roughly equivalent. Agility is slightly better for a BM hunter (and obviously a SV hunter) because of the synergy our pet recieves from our increased crit%. Our pet gets a small percentage of our tooltip attack power, so both are increasing our pets damage. Not to mention Blessing of Kings.

I have been trying to figure out why I am only getting 650-750 Dps per raid. I have seen it as high as 820 once or twice, but that is very rare. With raid buffs, I'm sitting at 36 crit 2400 ap. The Dragonspine goes thru some very odd times where for like 4-5 mins, it might proc once. Then it will reproc over and over for 4 or 5 times like it's catching up for missed procs or something. Sometimes, it just doesn't seem to go off very much at all or it will go off when I have to move and get wasted. I am 0/20/41 build sitting at 727 agil unbuffed. Should I swap out the Dragonspine with another trinket like the Bloodlust Brooch or find something else to replace the Hourglass? It just seems like the Spine is not as reliable as I had hoped on increasing my dps.

The Armory

Thanks.

I'm not very fond of DST as a survival trinket. Not saying it is bad, but managing haste procs is always hard and require 110% focus. I think that going for hourglass is a lot better especially considering a SV hunter critrate.

That said, it doesn't seems to me that your pulling out low numbers considering your gear. It seems to me that you are a bit too much focused on pvp items, that usually have lower AP. Also your talents can be tweaked a bit.. 4/5 improved arcane shot is totally worthless for example, get GFTT and rapid killing instead. I would also dump those points in MT and get barrage but that's not a big deal in terms of dps, more like of personal taste.

I've been passing on DST until the BM Hunters, Rogues, DPS Warrior, etc. get one. Cheeky's spreadsheet says it would be a large upgrade for me, but... I tried a build with IAotH for a week or so, but I didn't handle the frequent, unexpected haste changes well. So I'm not sure I'd handle a DST very well, either.

Your DPS should go up some on its own as you replace PvP gear with raid gear.

If you're doing a 1:1 rotation most of the time, DST might be a good thing, since it would not require as much adjustment. I'm not sure how (or if) you're doing a 1:1.5 rotation with a 2.7s weapon. I can't always manage a good rotation with a 2.9s weapon.

DST is a fairly substantial increase for me, MM using a 1:1.5 rotation. You just have to get used to switching back and forth between 1:1 and 1:1.5 whenever it procs. However, DST is getting nerfed to uselessness for me on Tuesday, so I wouldn't worry about getting one anymore...going to replace it with BB. :\

On another note, I have a question concerning Ravager v. Cat. I like my cat, and if there would be no substantial difference (10 DPS or lower) between the two, I would probably keep the Cat. My question is this. Since Gore requires 10 more focus to use, and both can learn bite + claw/gore, would the faster focus consumption of the ravager simply grant it much higher DPS? I know my cat is often full on focus, wasting it, and I'm not sure how much faster it would dissipate with a ravager.

Edit: I'm not really looking for agreement, I know the facts, just looking for someone who's tried both and has some numbers (I would test it myself, but don't have access to any 70 ravagers until Tuesday :X).

Depends entirely on your spec. If you're BM, it will be reduced to more on par with other trinkets. If you're MM, it will be worse than other trinkets. The haste as it is currently allows us to keep a nearly perfect 1:1 shot rotation with little time wasted, but when the haste decreases, it'll no longer be close to perfect, but trying to make it a 1:1.5 rotation with the proc up won't work.

Put simply, it'll be less DPS than while unhasted unless you just pretend the haste wasn't there (confirmed by Cheeky's testing, also)...assuming 2.9/3.0 bow speed.

Hello. Again.

Does anyone have a parser that can give me statistics on: Haste state changes over time, autoshot to autoshot times, and special to special shot times? From my own trials the error from combat logging is significant to these calculations, but there's nothing to do to improve on this... living with it.

I run with 2 proc based and 2 use based haste abilities/items (i.e. Swiftfire Gem, IAoH - proc; and Rapid Fire, Abacus - use) to boster up into haste states in the 62% and better total haste states. I even made my own sheets to tune the auto and steady cycles under various haste states to minimize total waste (either excessive gaps between the auto and steady cycles or from clipping of autoshots) at various latency set points.

Although fairly happy with a 2.7 weapon speed - I want to find out using game data, rather than Theorycrafting in the abstract, what weapon speed I should tune myself to.

What I need to accomplish this is a curve showing haste state over time - so I can chose a weapon speed that balances clipping (auto shot cycle time < steady shot cycle time) and waiting (steady shot cycle time < auto shot cycle time). The method:

1) Integrate the haste-state over time (no advanced math here - just add up the area of a bunch of rectangles since haste state changes would be steps on this curve)

2) Correlate the haste state changes to actual combat log parses of auto-auto times and special-special times. (This is to find the actual haste state that causes no further benefit from additional haste - i.e. confirm Theorycrafted tuning of the auto and steady cycle times)

3) Determine if the weapon speed should be increased or decreased to eliminate the most waste possible. Answer the experimental question: If I chose a different weapon speeds, does the total waste do to waiting and clipping increase or decrease given my actual haste profile in 1 and my cycle times in 2 above?

At the end of the experimentation, I want to be able to either tune my haste items to match the weapon I am using or choose the right weapon to minimize waste under variable haste states.

Before people wade in saying you should no have variable haste states - please don't... I am looking for tools to optimize variable haste states as much as possible, not ignore them.

Thanks.

I just respecced to BM to see how my dps is this coming week. The reason for the PVP gear before was due to the big agil increases that increases everything. I already miss having the extra range, to hit, and mana return from Thrill of the Hunt from survival. I guess, I'll just have to get used to it.

Stats before: Survival 727 agil, 1994 ap (with hawk), 33.63 crit

Stats after: BM 633 agil, 1738 ap (with hawk), 28.8 crit.

My pet scorpion has rank 2 in all resists, except Frost, Avoidance 2, Cobra Reflexes (do I need this or will it hurt his dps?), Claw, Poison 5, Growl, Greater Stamina 10, Armor 2.

Not sure if Cobra Reflexes is good or not for BM. 30 percent faster, but less damage. Is that 30% less damage?

With 4/5 in Arcane it was pretty close to decent shot rotation for throwing in an arcane every other shot....although 5/5 would have probably been perfect(with <200ms, that is), but then I would have lost 1 point in master tactician which would probably have been fine, too.

I may go back to Survival if I don't see any decent increases in BM. It's something I will have to play around with.

As a BM you will want your pet to have Cobra Reflexes... The Furious Inspiration (FI) proc is based on when your pet critically hits. 30% more hits = 30% more likely to keep FI trucking along continuously.

It also allows your pet to enter into a Frenzy state more often. All good stuff.

Gore is 25 focus, just like Claw. For all intents and purposes Cats and Ravagers are equal in DPS output. Niether Claw nor Gore scale with anything but crit rate - and both make up a small portion of your pet's DPS (especially raid-buffed.)

Hey folks,
I am trying to find a mod that will track when Dragonspine procs the haste effect and will alert me of it so I know when to switch hotkeys. Does anyone know of a mod that will do that? I just have so much other stuff going on to really pay that close attention to my tiny buff bars. I'm a semi raid leader and you all know how easy it is to gimp your dps bad if your shot rotations are all messed up.

BTW- I went back to survival to test some stuff today. I respecced with 5 points in improved arcane and it seems to be ready every other steady/auto.

My macro:
/castsequence reset=3 Arcane Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot
Added the remove errors string

Testing on Dr. Boom, I was able to reach 780 dps with Dragonspine, Hourglass, Wolfshead Sniper Rifle, and 15% ammo pack.

My only problem now is watching for the haste proc, hence the post. =)

Thanks!

I should probably know the answer to this, but I've had a hard time finding anything conclusive about Rapid Fire.

1. The haste effect of Rapid Fire affects the GCD and can cause autoshot clobbering, right? In which case, would it be advisable to switch to a from a 1:1.5 to a 1:1 when using Rapid Fire? (Normally 2.47 attack speed after quiver)

2. How would I go about calculating the DPS benefits of Readiness? The only instances I can think of that I would use it would be to double up Rapid Fire or for an extra Feign Death if things went really wrong.

Yeah, you'll only want steady/auto/kill or steady/auto rotation when hasted.

Does anyone here know the specific mechanic behind the ignore armor stat on the tier 6 items? I know each boss/mobs differ in their armor value, but is there a formula to calculate roughly how much XX ignore armor = XX dps?

Any input appreciated.

Is there some location where Don Santos' rifle has been compared to the Sunfury Bow of the Phoenix for dwarves specifically? My hunter is 41/20/0 BM, and I've heard Don Santos is comparable to the Sunfury Bow because of the AP proc synergy with pet damage and the inherent haste of BM, but I couldn't find anything specifically comparing these two for a Dwarf (+5 Gun Skill).

I did some testing a while ago comparing a ravager and an owl and the owl is only a very minor reduction in DPS ( ~6% ) if it had Screech and claw on autocast compared to ravagers abilities on autocast ( cant remember those, gore only perhaps... )

Anyway I have basicly not used any other pet besides my owl since then, the lost DPS is so minor that at least to me its of no importance and I have a pet that debuffs the mobs its on almost 100% of the time while also being a really kewl pet to use as grind pet since screech is solid agro as well paired with growl. ( guild allready had a scorpid hunter so I could use my birdie instead hehe )

Anyway, with the scorpid nerf its not really important what pet people are using in my oppinion since we are talking perhaps 20 DPS difference from the best DPS pet to the worst in a raid setting, so at least from my point of view a tad of added utility is more important and I hate cats and ravagers are just so darn ugly!

I currently use my Bat for 5mans and soloing but am scared to use him in raids as I have a feeling that the AP debuff from screech doesnt stack with other AP debuffs from the rest of the raid. Personally I've always liked the idea of bringing Vladmir to 25man raids as a Surv hunter to help the raid out, as with EW thats what its all about Currently in raids I still use my good ol' Wind Serpent that I've had since I solo tamed him in ZG back in the days when he would change colour every time I called him.

Has there been any theory crafting done on how screech impacts things like tank damage and if it does indeed stack with other debuffs? Maybe I should ask in the warrior threads?

I also remember reading somewhere (maybe not on EJ forums so I may be incorrect on this), that most BC bosses only have about 340ishAP to begin with and even with AP gain from CoR being up from locks, a warr with 5/5 Demo Shout would be able to lower the bosses AP to practically nothing without Screech. If Screech does indeed stack, would it be overkill on the AP debuffs and possibly using up a debuff slot that could be better used ...420 + 210 (Imp Demo + Screech) is more than 340 + 90 (Boss AP + CoR)...

Would it be more worthwhile to grab a pet (for raids), that can do claw/bite etc than one with screech/bite taking these ideas into consideration?

Screech is suposedly stacking with demo shout, but I wont claim this as solid fact only thats what I have read and been told.

I am an addict of debuffs and I use it as one of the arguments when asking for CoR that the added AP it gives the boss is far less than the AP debuff I offer with my owl

I have no idea about the amount of AP on TBC bosses, but 340 sure sounds low...

Althir, You can model this on Cheeky's excellent spreadsheet (see the Hunter Spreadsheet's tab)

Don Santos' rifle on a dwarf means you don't need to use itemization points on +hit gear to hit the cap (your +5 skill allows you to get the hit cap at a lower level) - I'd use Cheeky's sheet to determine the optimum level for hit (I don't trust my addled brain with quoting the number)

The secondary benefit of Don on a Beast Master is the typical hasted state of 63% at 0.2 latency (i.e. Quick Shots, Serpent Swiftness, and Quiver bonuses) gets the auto shot cycle and the steady (or special) shot cycle to alloy quite well with each other. You are tuned to avoid clipping autoshots and waiting excessively to shoot your next special.

When you get DST and other passive haste items, slower base speed weapons start to look better.... but I find it best for people to do this analysis themselves using Cheeky's rather than reading about it on the forum.

Chu.