Rexpop

A couple of gear related questions. I'm 41/20/0 and currently the guild I'm in is in the process of starting the t5 instances so I'm looking and what to look for in terms of gear upgrades:

1) Currently I'm using the Ebon Netherscale set which has been a really good investment in terms of longevity. Roughly when should I expect to see upgrades to this ?.

2) In terms of ranged weapon is Wolfslayer really better than Sunfury for BM ?. The numbers in the spreadsheet seem to say so, just wondering if this works out in practice ?. I have both so I'm trying to work out which works better.

 

Cheeky

If you can make up the hit rating in other places I've found I replaced at the following manner:
[Bands of the Celestial Archer] from The Eye trash
[Belt of the Black Eagle] crafted from drops off SSC or TK trash
[Ranger-General's Chestguard] from Hydross.

If you have both, head out to Dr. Boom and see which rotation you are more comfortable maintaining. I personally believe in the Wolfslayer, I trust the math behind the spreadsheet (no surprise there) and my reactions/latency has no problem maintaining the 2.7s 1:1 rotation.

Cheeky of Havoc

 

Osse

Wolfslayer is indeed insane with BM when you have 68 haste and Ashtongue trinket <3. Especially as dwarf, 3% hit is the win for easier itemization.

Well, assuming you have under 100ms and high fps.

 

Lad

Let me preface this by mentioning that I searched for quite a while trying to find an answer or some discussion about this on the EJ boards and other sources. If I'm repeating a question that's been asked elsewhere then I am sorry and any help in finding the link would be appreciated On to the question...

I recently picked up the Star-Strider Boots off of Solarian and I gave some thought to the enchant. The first and most obvious was dexterity and I was almost certain it was the superior choice but while it was my first instinct to grab dexterity, I also considered Cat's Swiftness.

Being someone that hates to immediately dismiss something regardless of how "obvious" another choice is, I'd like to give it a shot and see where it stands in comparison to dexterity.

Now I've read a few posts pertaining to this topic but all were in regards to melee DPS, where the benefit is a little bit more clear. Being a ranged class I can't imagine it (in fact I'm almost certain) having the same impact as it would on a melee class, but again I'd hate to just dismiss it w/o making an informed decision.

I suppose what I'm looking for is anyone else that has perhaps tested this in a PvE setting (and where in progression it was used as the encounters will greatly impact whether the enchant was useful or not) and what their conclusion was. Some numbers would be great too however I realize the difficulty of putting a set value on something which is so dependant on the encounter.

I'd like to note that the reason I did not thoroughly test this enchant in a PvE setting is b/c I was hassled by the other hunters present so I had it changed shortly after the encounter (if it's worth it however I would not hesitate to revert to Cat's Swiftness). Personally I can see the benefit, but only getting to use it on one encounter didn't leave me with enough of an impression to make a final decision. Ideally I'd like to have a rotted pair for the lesser enchant as then I'd be able to swap in 12 agi for stationary fights and swiftness in for fights where I am more mobile however this could be a while.

Thanks for the read

 

Fola

Osse good to see some posts man, hadn't seen a post from you for quite a while.

In regards to the Ashtongue Talisman of Swiftness what sort of uptime do you see with this trinket? I would imagine the minimum threshold it would have to reach would be around 42% uptime, do you see this or more?

Bloodlust Brooch = 72 AP passive + (278 for 20/120 seconds)
Bloodlust Brooch = 118 AP w/valuing of on use

In order to get that 118 AP out of the Ashtongue

118 = X * 275
X = 42.9% uptime required

I personally sit using a 2.9 speed bow (troll racial +3%) with 37 passive haste (can bump to 63 with a gear swap) and a dragonspine, which as a result won't put me far off from your current hasted setup of 2.7 + 68 haste (basically the dragonspine difference).

I would love to hear you say that the Ashtongue talisman has something on the order of 70% uptime with you current setup. Really to be honest I haven't heard much regarding the uptime of the trinket.

 

Osse

I really havent calculated a proper uptime for it, havent had time to be honest. Quickly checking
the spreadsheet it gives 52,34% uptime with 1,75 average steady shot frequency. Turns out to be 144 ap.

the duration on that trinket could be 10 seconds though, as it's barely worth it for non BM, non 1:1 rotation. Especially as you lose a huge epeen in armory stats.

 

Gurth

Anyone figured out how much armor reduction items are worth in terms of dps?

Considering lot of items seems to aim at this stat in the future (new pvp items for instance), looks like we're gonna face the problem of choosing between standard stats items vs armor reduction ones.

Could play with the spreadsheet i guess (not sure if it's modeled in yet) but don't like numbers out of the blue so if anyone have links/theorycrafting to spare would be much appreciated

 

Qdragon1105

Armor Reduction is gonna be quite important I think. My guild is currently working on SSC and I switched out Epic Kara gear for 4 pieces of Blue Beastlord. I've noticed I can beat other better geared Hunters in DPS from the start of a fight. I hit the Kill Command everytime I can so I can get the 600 Armor Reduction buff. It messes with my shot rotation since I use Cast Seq macros yet I'm still doing well on the DPS. I am a survival hunter so long fights like Gruul I end up topping things anyways due to always having max mana.

 

Cranch

It's already modelled, just change the target armor.

Armor reduction from 4K to 3400 armor = 0.094 dps per armor reduction
Armor reduction from 600 to 0 armor = 0.162 dps per armor reduction

 

Cranch

Well, dexterity gives you +12 agi, and cat's gives you +6 agi plus a bit faster run speed.

Dps is a function of agility. So unless you're a hunter for whom aspect of the pack or cheetah just isn't fast enough, or you get damaged when you need to kite, it would seem that picking +12 agi will always be a better choice.

 

Glaurong

This isn't entirely accurate (it can be if you are careful), I feel into the same trap. Armor penetration only affects your attacks. When you change values in the sheet, make sure to only note the change in your personal DPS or you will be overvaluing it.

Log Parser for BM Hunters (Right click, save as) - Updated 10/11/2007

 

Locos

I just went through a few raids worth of WWS parses to check the Ashtongue Talisman of Swiftness. It isn't a perfect uptime analysis by any means (since the bosses changed, and presumably group composition, issues with reproc’s on other items, etc...) but I can throw a few numbers out there so that people get an idea of where it is at relative to other items they may have (I currently use Barrel-Blade Long Rifle and a 1:1 rotation).

Raid 1: Quick Shots – 149 / Tsunami Talisman Proc – 83 / Ashtongue Proc – 198
Raid 2: Quick Shots – (n/a) / Tsunami Talisman Proc – 75 / Ashtongue Proc – 197
Raid 3: Quick Shots – 143 / Tsunami Talisman Proc – 66 / Ashtongue Proc – 193
Raid 3: Quick Shots – (n/a) / Tsunami Talisman Proc – 64 / Ashtongue Proc – 156

The n/a’s are for raids where I would have switched to Viper at some point during the entire raid, so the Quick Shots proc isn’t really represented accurately. Otherwise, I am sure Hawk was active the entire time. Like I said it doesn’t take into account a lot of factors, but if you have Tsunami Talisman (or Hourglass since it is pretty similar), this can give an idea of uptime and proc rates.

 

Cheeky

This is correct, as it is also influencing pet DPS, and it shouldn't be.

Cheeky of Havoc

 

Cranch

Fixing it to look at hunter dps only (thanks for reminding me, Glaurong), I get

4K to 3400 = 0.071 dps per
600 to 0 = 0.123 dps per

A little off from my original figures, my apologies.

 

Hoverpuma

Hm, since the topic has come up...

When can I break my 4/5 Beast Lord set bonus? (I'm 41/20/0 most of the time, except when I run 0/21/40 for Karazhan CC.) I've been plugging gear combinations into Cheeky's sheet like crazy, and have been getting answers like "5/5 T4 < 4/5 D3 + arena S2 chest", which strikes me as just a little ridiculous for a gear set that drops entirely in non-heroic 5-mans.

I do routinely smack "better" geared (i.e. more purples) hunters on damage meters in Karazhan and Gruul by a large margin, but I'm not sure whether to attribute that to the D3 set bonus or to the fact that most of the hunters in our little casual raiding alliance are Marks and still insist that Serpent Sting is a wonderful thing to be using.

I've been using an armor value of 5000 (29.5%), and a mob level of 73; the other gear I start with is the dungeon/Karazhan gear I'm wearing in the Armory. I'm trying to figure out whether I'm putting reasonable assumptions into the sheet, or whether there is some "practical" divorce between the spreadsheet numbers and actual play that make T4 a better choice. (Off the top of my head, the only thing I can think of is that the D3 set bonus requires an active pet and Kill Command use, or that my guess at a reasonable boss armor value is out of line.)

So, I put it to you who have more experience than I: Practically speaking, when have you traded in those dungeon blues, and for what?

 

Rexpop

Thanks for the reply. Having played around with it I'm going to stick with Wolfslayer for a while given that it does seem to give around 50dps more than Sunfury with my current build.

 

Damdern

let me start off by saying ive played a mage for most of the time ive been on WoW, and recently my brother has stopped playing, so he gave me his hunter. and let me just say, within moments of logging in and playing around for an hour or so, i fell in love with the little dwarf hunter.

fast forward to a few months later, im in a kara/gruul raiding guild and things are going great, except im not sure how i should spec to get the most damage i can in 25 man raids.

The Armory

there is a link to my armory and tallent build, i know BM is great but im not sure exactly where to put my points.

latency is anywyere between 150-250 (crappy DSL) and frames always above 40. my shot rotation mostly consists of a steadyshot/autoshot macro. hit that twice, then arcane shot once and repeat.

also, i cant decide between weapons. i have Legacy and Lunar Crescent (slowly leveling my blacksmithing and collecting mats for Mooncleaver) and for range weapons i have Sunfury and Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle.

im also running heroic SP to collect the leather pants from the last boss, and in a decent 2v2 team to try and get some of the Arena season 2 gear. and i try to get in on as many Black Morass groups as possible to collect the Hourglass trinket. and i have 23 heroic badges, is it worth it to save 41 for the Bloodlust Brooch?

any comments/input welcomed. thanks.

 

Xenoborg

My current bow (serpent spine) and my goal bow (Bristleblitz Striker) are both 3.0 speed, and I am BM speced, and my guild has the first 4 down in both BT and HS.

With the reduced haste it seems like the best thing for me to do is shoot for 131 haste (1 ring, gloves, belt, bracer) and stay BM. (115% quiver * 108% gear * 120% SS = ~150%)

This would put my autoshots at ~2.01s and my steadies at ~1.0

My question is this: is this in theory the optimal choice for gear and spec direction? If I generally have ~150 ping should I try to manually time or use a cast sequence?

 

SpartanKillian

I was on vacation for most of the summer so I missed most of my guild's trips to Kara; as a result, I'm a little less well geared than I'd like to be. That said, I'm sure there are things I'm not currently doing that I could be to increase my dps, which hovers around 600-650 for Gruul. Vis-a-vis the rest of my guild my dps is fine, I'm more concerned in getting everything I can out of my character, not beating 'locks on the meter.

Here's the genertic macro I'm using:
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/script [exists, target=pettarget] Kill Command
/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, Auto Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
/script UIErrorsFrame:Show()

My latency is generally around 100-150, and I manually weave Arcane Shots every other cycle following a Steady Shot. Hawk is always on.

A few questions:
1. Which pet would be better: A wind serpent with bite and lightning breath on autocast or a cat with bite and claw on autocast? I can't stand ravagers, so I'm disqualifying them from contention.
2. In the forums I've seen people mention they run two different macros to avoind KC clipping issues. Would this make sense with my latency and how would that work? Do you switch back to the non-KC macro after running the KC macro once? Is it better to try to manually weave KC into your rotation?
3. Is there anything about my build, macro or character sheet that jumps out at you as being suboptimal (aside from gear that hasn't dropped for me yet).

 

Noobiisa

The fact that you ask if you should use a cast sequence imo you should go for it for a few reasons. For one your ping is low enough so you dont have to preload SS so you dont clip autos. Manual timing is for one harder to play good but once really mastered gives you more freedom and can squeeze out more but with your macro you can focus more on other things as in your hp, aoe effects, your pet, etc. In general cast sequence caused the general hunter population not to suck totally anymore that didn't know about shot timing or didn't really understood it. For my advice Ill go with cast sequence macro for you and get a hunter timer addon so you can manually time in KCs there as you have 0.4sec time about and this will atleast wont make you a 1 button dps spammer, but feel free to try both and see what you prefer but dont start with macro first or you will get used to it and will scrap off manually the day you try it.

On a side note, do the quiver's 15% haste effect affect Steady shot timer now, cause correct me if I am wrong it used to not do it.

 

peterk0

hello fellow hunters,

there's a thing i would like to ask:

recently i have been doing some testing on dr. boom, just to check how the values i get in cheeky's spreadsheet "work" in the game, and i have some numbers which i'm afraid cannot explain to myself, that's why i was hoping for you help.

i've fired 1000 shots each test scenario, so the numbers should be solid.
1. scenario i equipped don santos' rifle and used 37 dps shots
2. scenario i equipped wrathtide longbow and used 37 dps arrows

i've used the 1:1 rotation, i'm BM (41/20) with 1700+ atp / 25+% crit (dep on weapon), i've kept my pet out, and FD each time HM had ended to drink and recast.

results:

1. scenario 655,8 dps -> 649 563 dmg
2. scenario 692,9 dps -> 709 255 dmg

so obviously my question is:
how it's possible to get such a results, when according to the spreadsheet (adjusted for lvl 68 and buffs i used ofc) the don santos' should be much better (dps wise ofc, not total dmg)?

 

Osse

Quick shot procs and did you remember to right click ammo so they actually used via quiver. :p

 

peterk0

yes, ofc i did everything right.

quickshot procs should not be the reason if the amount of shots fired is big enough. i think 1k shots is enough to get the basic numbers like dps.

 

◊ Lactose

Most likely, either your latency or reaction time is not what you've input in the spreadsheet, or you're simply not used to the rotation speed. Personally, after changing weapon speed, it takes me a while to get into the rhythm again.

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

peterk0

The thing is, i've used the following macro, especially because i didn't want to screw up the cycle.

And i did put 0.2 sec into the sheet under latency, having ping 150-170ms in game. Even if i put 0.3 which is pretty exaggerated, i get like 40+ dps with don santos' according to the sheet.
I'm going to do some more testing, maybe fire like 2k shots, just to see if it help to get closer to the sheet.

Any other ideas?
Btw thanks for the responses.