Help me please - Page 28

Lactose · 10/03/07, 10:31 AM

Are your average shot values matching up?
Is your crit rate matching up?
Do you, in the given time period, fire as many shots as you would expect?

When repeating the test, turning off Aspect of the Hawk to remove Quick Shots would be a nice idea for testing the spreadsheet accuracy, due to the randomness of the proc and its effect.

Xenoborg · 10/03/07, 11:01 AM

Does steady shot get the bonus speed from quiver? On Cheeky's sheet my steady is getting the full effect and going down to 1.0 cast time with 150% static haste for autoshot.

Cheeky · 10/03/07, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by peterk0

The thing is, i've used the following macro, especially because i didn't want to screw up the cycle.

/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, Auto Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()

And i did put 0.2 sec into the sheet under latency, having ping 150-170ms in game. Even if i put 0.3 which is pretty exaggerated, i get like 40+ dps with don santos' according to the sheet.
I'm going to do some more testing, maybe fire like 2k shots, just to see if it help to get closer to the sheet.

Any other ideas?
Btw thanks for the responses.

Can you pull a combat log and run it through WWS? It would help us to know how close you came on maintaining the rotation, what the Santos Blessing uptime was, and all other factors. Based on how you descibe the tests the Don would also get the benefit of having Hunter's Mark at +440 for a longer period of time due to the faster fire rate.

A combat log would probably answer all our questions and allow us to explain what you are seeing in aggregate numbers.

Lactose · 10/03/07, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Xenoborg

Does steady shot get the bonus speed from quiver?

Yes.

Xenoborg · 10/03/07, 11:22 AM

Ive seen the macro along the lines of

/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, Auto Shot

posted several times before, and was wondering if that 3 referred to reset on the third action, or after 3 seconds?

Trohck · 10/03/07, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Xenoborg

.../castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, Auto Shot, was wondering if that 3 referred to reset on the third action, or after 3 seconds?

After 3 seconds of you not using the macro.

peterk0 · 10/03/07, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

Can you pull a combat log and run it through WWS? It would help us to know how close you came on maintaining the rotation, what the Santos Blessing uptime was, and all other factors. Based on how you descibe the tests the Don would also get the benefit of having Hunter's Mark at +440 for a longer period of time due to the faster fire rate.

A combat log would probably answer all our questions and allow us to explain what you are seeing in aggregate numbers.

I'll do that and post the results (WWS), I'm also planning on doing it more extensively this time. There are going to be 4 scenarios, ~2000 shots each, for each weapon with and without AotH, as Lactose suggested.

Results hopefully tomorrow.

Glaurong · 10/03/07, 3:15 PM

Guys, the answer is simple! Surprised none of you jumped on this immediately.

He fired 1000 shots with both ranged weapons, both weapons have vastly different speeds.

Assuming a perfect 1:1 rotation, 500 of those shots were Autos.

For the Wrathtide it would take 1087 seconds to fire those shots. For the Don Santos, 978 seconds.

Don Santos did 649,563 damage in 978 seconds, or 664.17 DPS.

The Wrathtide did 709,255 damage in 1087 seconds, or 652.49 DPS.

Edit: as to why the difference isn't 40 DPS. Armor will reduce the dps difference between the two weapons by a proportional amount and variance in procs can easily account for the rest.

Xenoborg · 10/03/07, 4:56 PM

Originally Posted by Trohck

After 3 seconds of you not using the macro.

So if I'm BM and have an auto time of 2.17, using the 3 there isn't a good idea? Can you use decimals in the macro?

peterk0 · 10/03/07, 5:17 PM

Originally Posted by Xenoborg

So if I'm BM and have an auto time of 2.17, using the 3 there isn't a good idea? Can you use decimals in the macro?

I understand it can be confusing, so I'll do my best to explain it to you.

This castsequence macro is designed to be spamed, that means pressed again and again. In this situation when you're continuously pushing the button it is always cast like it should be, that means steady shot waits for auto shot timer and only then begins to cast (as it has a base 1.5 sec cast time), therefore you are not clipping your auto shots with steady casting.

The reset value is important only if you're not using the macro and stop pressing the button. So after the time put after reset=, it will forget about the next spell in the sequence and when pressed again, it will begin from the start. It would be much more obvious if the sequence was composed from more than 2 shot/spells.

Hope that clears it

peterk0 · 10/03/07, 5:20 PM

Originally Posted by Glaurong

Guys, the answer is simple! Surprised none of you jumped on this immediately.

He fired 1000 shots with both ranged weapons, both weapons have vastly different speeds.

Assuming a perfect 1:1 rotation, 500 of those shots were Autos.

For the Wrathtide it would take 1087 seconds to fire those shots. For the Don Santos, 978 seconds.

Don Santos did 649,563 damage in 978 seconds, or 664.17 DPS.

The Wrathtide did 709,255 damage in 1087 seconds, or 652.49 DPS.

Edit: as to why the difference isn't 40 DPS. Armor will reduce the dps difference between the two weapons by a proportional amount and variance in procs can easily account for the rest.

Well, I might be wrong but doesn't your explanation presume I calculated DPS from total dmg? Because that's not the case, I got the DPS number from Recount addon and mentioned the total dmg done just as an additional information.

Edit: One thing you're actually 100% accurate is that armor plays a significant role in the equation and the difference got smaller as I've risen the armor value.

Cheeky · 10/03/07, 5:28 PM

Originally Posted by peterk0

Well, I might be wrong but doesn't your explanation presume I calculated DPS from total dmg? Because that's not the case, I got the DPS number from Recount addon and mentioned the total dmg done just as an additional information.

Edit: One thing you're actually 100% accurate is that armor plays a significant role in the equation and the difference got smaller as I've risen the armor value.

I don't think Recount is as accurate at determining "time DPSing" as WWS is.

peterk0 · 10/03/07, 5:39 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

I don't think Recount is as accurate at determining "time DPSing" as WWS is.

Of course, that's why here are some first WWS results.

Wow Web Stats

ds_aoth means Don Santos' Rifle with Imp Aoth 5/5 on.
wl_aoth means Wrathtide Longbow with Imp Aoth 5/5 on.

It really looks better now, DS seems to do more DPS, however the difference is smaller than according to spreadsheet, which could be the result of various factors i.e. we don't know the exact armor value of Dr. Boom, Quick Shots random factor etc.

If you guys will be able to find more sophisticated explanation, I'll be just happy, but for now I'm mostly blaming Recount for inaccuracy and quick shots for randomness.

Cheeky · 10/03/07, 5:52 PM

Originally Posted by peterk0

Of course, that's why here are some first WWS results.

Wow Web Stats

ds_aoth means Don Santos' Rifle with Imp Aoth 5/5 on.
wl_aoth means Wrathtide Longbow with Imp Aoth 5/5 on.

So you are seeing 11 DPS more with the Don. That's 1.64% higher. Not too bad, especially when you start adding in the extra RAP from the Blessing proc to your pet.

I didn't take a look at individual shot times, but you could run the log through the parser to determine how bad your clipping was with both weapons too.

Excellent sample size. Looks like you have about 25% crit rate.

Edit: If you want to make a better comparison, run the test in Viper and take off your Hourglass trinket. Should minimize the differences in luck a bit more. We can also correct for crit rates and look at the data based on no critical hits at all.

peterk0 · 10/03/07, 6:03 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

So you are seeing 11 DPS more with the Don. That's 1.64% higher. Not too bad, especially when you start adding in the extra RAP from the Blessing proc to your pet.

I didn't take a look at individual shot times, but you could run the log through the parser to determine how bad your clipping was with both weapons too.

Excellent sample size. Looks like you have about 25% crit rate.

Edit: If you want to make a better comparison, run the test in Viper and take off your Hourglass trinket. Should minimize the differences in luck a bit more. We can also correct for crit rates and look at the data based on no critical hits at all.

Yes i have about 25% crit rate.

I'm now analyzing the logs with the parser I've found in Glaurong sig, but I have to admit I don't understand all the lines ... where exactly I can see my clipping issues? Is it the "Times exceeded 4000 ms between auto shots" line? What about "Back to back auto shots" and "Back to back steady shots" I don't really understand them.

And yes of course, I've thought about taking off the Hourglass and turning off the AotH, but it's pretty time consuming and the results I've got look just alright.

Thank you for all the time, it's very appreciated.

lilwolfe · 10/03/07, 8:31 PM

Need someone to check my stuff and help me figure out how I can better my dps. I am not satisfied with it. I am currently spec'd survival as my unbuffed agility is 705. (I still have a list of about 4-5 upgrades that are available if they'd ever drop)

Here is the WWS report of Lurker and Tidewalker kills on our last raid night. Multishots on Tidewalker were low because I was trying to avoid hitting murlocs when they spawned.

I aim for the 1.5:1 rotation and I am solid on the steady/arcane side of it, but my steady/multi fumbles a lot.

Loading...

Currently using Sunfury. Also have Wolfslayer - if that would be the better choice, let me know.

Lukevom · 10/03/07, 10:40 PM

HI im LVL 70 Bm Hunter 44/0/17
we have just started Kara and would love some help to make my char better could you tell me what gems i should be socketing at the moment im all over the place

any help or crits would be greatly apprciated as i only have half an idea and get so many diff opinions after reading forum here you guys have the best source of info for hunters

The Armory
Thanks

Luke

Pakatak · 10/04/07, 2:01 AM

@ Lukevom: For starters, get rid of Endbringer. Get a Crystalforged War Axe (BoE Blue 2-H, 50ish stam, 27 crit, 90 AP) or a pair of Stellaris (drop from 3rd boss in Mechanar) to cover that. For sockets, unless you're REALLY, REALLY hurting on AP, agility gems are the way to go. While in a raid, you'll be getting Blessing of Kings (or you should, at least.) and that agility will be increased 10%, making it overall more beneficial. That, and your crit is hurting at 17%. As for other kinds of gear and such for BM, wait for better replies, 'cause I've never played/geared for BM.

A question of my own: My guild has Karazhan on farm, and we've downed Gruul. As for Karazhan loot, are there any blatantly obvious upgrades that I should/need to get?
My Armory.

Zedd · 10/04/07, 3:19 AM

Originally Posted by Pakatak

A question of my own: My guild has Karazhan on farm, and we've downed Gruul. As for Karazhan loot, are there any blatantly obvious upgrades that I should/need to get?
My Armory.

You need the legs from netherspite [Item not found!], though Tier 4 would be better IMO.
Belt from chess for your (odd) spec [Girdle of Treachery]
New globes basicly, and they deserve +15agility

try these: [Gloves of Dexterous Manipulation]
The ring ring from Prince: [Ring of a Thousand Marks]

Xenoborg · 10/04/07, 3:43 AM

Originally Posted by Zedd

[Ring of a Thousand Marks]

[Garona's Signet Ring] off curator would probably be better, doubly so since hes LR/EW speced

Gank · 10/04/07, 4:42 AM

Originally Posted by Zedd

You need the legs from netherspite [Item not found!],

[Skulker's Greaves] is a superior choice that also drops from netherspite

Zedd · 10/04/07, 6:06 AM

Originally Posted by Gank

[Skulker's Greaves] is a superior choice that also drops from netherspite

You are so right

my bad. Its been a long time since I did karazhan

Gjorn · 10/04/07, 6:18 AM

Originally Posted by Lukevom

HI im LVL 70 Bm Hunter 44/0/17
we have just started Kara and would love some help to make my char better could you tell me what gems i should be socketing at the moment im all over the place

any help or crits would be greatly apprciated as i only have half an idea and get so many diff opinions after reading forum here you guys have the best source of info for hunters

The Armory
Thanks

Luke

Ignore the socket bonus in your helmet, for starters. You need both ap, crit and, almost most important, hit. Personally I have smacked three +4 ag and + 4 hit games in it, which gives a nice balance of all three stats.

Apart from that, a new two hander, with savagery or + 35 agi seems like the best improvement. The Honour Hold reverd polearm is supposed to be good, and fairly easy to get. Maybe some different legs as well. I'm not sure, but I think I recall a discussion about those Beast Mastery ones being excellent for soloing, but not so great for raiding. The legs from the first boss in normal Old Hilsbrad are excellent, and easily obtainable.

I'd also consider changing my spec if I were you. I guess you have specced for PvP and utility. You'd gain a ton of personal dps if you switched to a cookie cutter 41/20/0 spec. But that of course depends on wether you still mostly will do PvP and also a lot of trapping in Kara.

I'm not very far progressed compared to most raiders here, but I think I've managed to get some deceently balanceed gear and gems together for and in Kara, if you are interested in how my setup, for comparison..

Armory

Lukevom · 10/04/07, 8:49 AM

LOve this site but definetly hate the people who run it i got a pm saying if i didnt use correct spellinjg and grammer ill get kicked WTF

are you guys serious

i dont know how to spell or use grammer properly if you guys are going to police this like nazis then there really isnt much point me being here as im not going to get any better with my grammer and stuff lmao can not beleive this

thanks to the people who gave me some great advice
and if anyone knows of a site where there not so worried about grammer etc please pm me before i get booted

Thanks

Luke

Zedd · 10/04/07, 8:56 AM

Offtopic:
I made some grammer errors in the past (I bet this post will be full of them now ) In the end it makes you spell beter. And its more enjoyable to read. So I would delete that post if I was you =)