Guild is working on Vashj and about to start Kael, and I am the only survival spec'd hunter in the guild. (We only have 3 hunters in total; one is mainly PVP and Marksman, the other is our second raiding hunter and is BM.)
The officers are really scrutinizing the guilds dps on the whole, (we do dps rather poorly for a guild at this level of progression) and I am trying to dissect my spec and my performance to find out why I am not reaching that 1000+ mark yet.
Here is last nights various attempts on Vashj. Wow Web Stats
My role for the night was to dps the nagas and the striders- we put all middle dps on one or the other, to burn one down fast before moving to the next.
Hunters are put into groups lastly, so we rarely stack hunters into the most ideal set up, instead putting the shadow priests, shaman and druids with parties that make up strictly physical or mana related dps. When we have enough spriests, we get one, and I did have one last night, so mana was not an issue at all.
I really need to hammer out what's going wrong here, or what I'm overlooking, so please offer any suggestion you can.
PS - I know the helm sucks, but we're on 9 months of farming Kara and no t4 drop.
One thing I noticed was your under use of Multi, given that you have points in barrage. You also might considering swapping out pets? I have had better luck with wind serpents, seems more synergetic with survivals high crit. Just a few things I noticed only looking for a minute.
PS. I also just noticed you are quite a bit over the hit cap, not sure if you might have some gear or gems to swap out (I noticed you did have one 4agi/hit gem).
Guild is working on Vashj and about to start Kael, and I am the only survival spec'd hunter in the guild. (We only have 3 hunters in total; one is mainly PVP and Marksman, the other is our second raiding hunter and is BM.)
The officers are really scrutinizing the guilds dps on the whole, (we do dps rather poorly for a guild at this level of progression) and I am trying to dissect my spec and my performance to find out why I am not reaching that 1000+ mark yet.
Here is last nights various attempts on Vashj. Wow Web Stats
My role for the night was to dps the nagas and the striders- we put all middle dps on one or the other, to burn one down fast before moving to the next.
Hunters are put into groups lastly, so we rarely stack hunters into the most ideal set up, instead putting the shadow priests, shaman and druids with parties that make up strictly physical or mana related dps. When we have enough spriests, we get one, and I did have one last night, so mana was not an issue at all.
I really need to hammer out what's going wrong here, or what I'm overlooking, so please offer any suggestion you can.
PS - I know the helm sucks, but we're on 9 months of farming Kara and no t4 drop.
In my opinion for the helm... the merc helm > t4. Then again I raid with 4 pieces of merc, but I topped meters last night on our first karathress kill as SV. That with a the 12 agil/3% crit meta and you've got the biggest upgrade you can get with the gear you're at. An idea since you're more than hit capped is to swap the necklace for necklace of the deep. Raid buffed it'll give you about the same dps but you'll have about 20 more agility EW. Attumen's leather gloves are on par with t5 if you are hit capped.
Both these upgrades (sidegrade on the necklace, gloves) will net you more agility which means more crit which means more mana efficient.
Make sure hunter's mark doesn't fall off. It's 440 AP, if you refresh it before it goes out then the 440 AP will stay. If you let it fall... you lose 30 seconds of 440 AP. Be religious to the 1:1.5 rotation. You used arcane shot which is an excellent dps on the go shot. If you ever have mana problems (keeping up this rotation is a mana sink) look at what Judgement of Wisdom can do. Some fights its trivial to keep this up. Wow Web Stats
Your rogues very low on dps. Ours are always in top 5 and usually dominate the rest. Hope this helped.
Guild is working on Vashj and about to start Kael, and I am the only survival spec'd hunter in the guild. (We only have 3 hunters in total; one is mainly PVP and Marksman, the other is our second raiding hunter and is BM.)
The officers are really scrutinizing the guilds dps on the whole, (we do dps rather poorly for a guild at this level of progression) and I am trying to dissect my spec and my performance to find out why I am not reaching that 1000+ mark yet.
Here is last nights various attempts on Vashj. Wow Web Stats
My role for the night was to dps the nagas and the striders- we put all middle dps on one or the other, to burn one down fast before moving to the next.
Hunters are put into groups lastly, so we rarely stack hunters into the most ideal set up, instead putting the shadow priests, shaman and druids with parties that make up strictly physical or mana related dps. When we have enough spriests, we get one, and I did have one last night, so mana was not an issue at all.
I really need to hammer out what's going wrong here, or what I'm overlooking, so please offer any suggestion you can.
PS - I know the helm sucks, but we're on 9 months of farming Kara and no t4 drop.
Your dps seems fine to me. Vashj fight is not a good benchmark, people on the elemental duty will outdps those on striders/nagas. Test you out on morogrim for better comparison (you dmg might suck in comparison with aoe classes but should be closer to your real personal dps).
The main problem there is your dps time, you should aim to get about 80%, and as close to 100% as possible if you're on elemental.
Another thing you should consider is to change spec. If you really want to do as much DPS as possible as survival you should spec 28/33 with 3/3 barrage and 3/5 RWS. Mana will be a huge problem, since you'll miss thrill of the hunt but if the MM hunter can keep it up, there is no reason why you shouldn't.
Also don't expect to break 1000 dps without being properly group buffed and/or better geared and a careful pet managment.
If your RL have problems fitting you in groups, try to convince him that there is no other class that benefit as much as us from a shadowpriest. There might be exception depending on fight issues (for example on vash we have a SP in group with all of the side dpsers since it's really mana intensive that role), also since you have 1 hunter per spec, it's a good idea to put hunters in the same group. TSA and FI helps a lot
...I believe that using lower ranks would drastically increase the chance they get resisted.
I'm pretty sure ranks do not effect spell resist rates. I think the resist rate is calculated from the level of the attacker (plus talents/gear), not the spell itself.
Been in Hyjal (4/5) for 2 weeks now and just started into BT (Najentus only). My guild places a lot of emphasis on dmg meters and typically, if you're not top 10, you're not pulling your weight.
Been playing around with 1.5:1 shot rotation and 1:1 shot rotation to see the dps values. Thanks for the help!
1.5:1 is going to grant you more dps if you time it decently, since you don't have that much "idle" time when you're not doing anything.
As for the WWS reports, they seem fairly decent at first glance (damned ISP at college keeps blocking pages). Most impressive that you break 1000dps on some fights, using only a [Steelhawk Crossbow], in a spec that basically gimps personal dps a bit. And remember you're adding 110 + 237 AP to the rogues and dps warriors in the raid.
Originally Posted by XI-
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
Thanks for all the replies concerning my blessing question. Now I´ll just have to figure out a way to break it to my fellow hunters and to my raid. Problem is, I fear even if I get them to give us other blessings while we have less than 4 paladins and one of us happens to draw aggro - which is propably going to happen sooner or later considering they´re not used to it and maybe also somewhat reluctant to really try - they´ll be very quick to blame it on the missing buff...
Maybe I should just try to get them to single buff me without bos to prove my point.
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I tweaked the spec a little (after browsing the survival thread here) and will try it out tonight while we hit SSC. I didn't take barrage this time around, but I did get the 3/5 RWS still. ^.^ Thanks!
Hey all, I have been following this thread along with a couple others for a while now.. Until recently I wasn't running anything noteworthy enough to get on WWS.
Anyway, my gear is well below what it should be for end-game but honestly, my guild needs competent hunters and they are trying to gear me up quickly so they are dealing with my sub-par performance in the hopes I will be geared for BT when we get there. Which should be soon!
Anyway, here is a link to my performance in SSC... One thing I noted was that I ran out of mana a lot and ended up with an auto only shot rotation. Not sure how to fix that honestly other then to continue to get geared up.
As for my gun, yes I know it sucks but I am hoping to get Wolfslayer or Arcanite soon! If only one of them would drop!
Thanks for all the replies concerning my blessing question. Now I´ll just have to figure out a way to break it to my fellow hunters and to my raid. Problem is, I fear even if I get them to give us other blessings while we have less than 4 paladins and one of us happens to draw aggro - which is propably going to happen sooner or later considering they´re not used to it and maybe also somewhat reluctant to really try - they´ll be very quick to blame it on the missing buff...
Maybe I should just try to get them to single buff me without bos to prove my point.
Sorry if I am not understanding this, but are you saying you will draw aggro because you are missing Blessing of Salvation?
You are talking about hunters - you have the best aggro reducing ability in the game already. I do not want or need Blessing of Salvation, and neither should you. If you guys are drawing aggro, you seriously need to work on aggro awareness and how and when to use feign death.
Hey all, I have been following this thread along with a couple others for a while now.. Until recently I wasn't running anything noteworthy enough to get on WWS.
Anyway, my gear is well below what it should be for end-game but honestly, my guild needs competent hunters and they are trying to gear me up quickly so they are dealing with my sub-par performance in the hopes I will be geared for BT when we get there. Which should be soon!
Anyway, here is a link to my performance in SSC... One thing I noted was that I ran out of mana a lot and ended up with an auto only shot rotation. Not sure how to fix that honestly other then to continue to get geared up.
Are you going into the fight with full stacks of mana (preferably fel mana) pots?
Chug a pot as soon as your mana drops down 2500-3000 below your max, then start chugging more of them evertime the cool down is up.
Or alternatively, get into a group with a shadow priest.
Mana is an issue, but you should never run out if you are prepared.
Are you going into the fight with full stacks of mana (preferably fel mana) pots?
Chug a pot as soon as your mana drops down 2500-3000 below your max, then start chugging more of them evertime the cool down is up.
Or alternatively, get into a group with a shadow priest.
Mana is an issue, but you should never run out if you are prepared.
Yeah I have been doing better lately with the mana potions and so forth, that night I was completely unprepared for. They pulled me in without any kind of warning after seeing me in action in Karazhan.
Anyway, I still have mana problems but not nearly as bad when I am chugging potions like a mad man. I still hope gear helps, considering I am watching the other 2 hunters that raid have 0 mana problems, and they are a lot better geared then I am.
I am more concerned with anything that stands out in the WWS that I can improve.
Anyway, here is a link to my performance in SSC... One thing I noted was that I ran out of mana a lot and ended up with an auto only shot rotation. Not sure how to fix that honestly other then to continue to get geared up.
As for my gun, yes I know it sucks but I am hoping to get Wolfslayer or Arcanite soon! If only one of them would drop!
Yesterday it had some serious mana-problems with Voidreaver too.
And for the first time I tried the new and improved Aspect of the Viper. I was quite impressed =) I had about 200-300 mana left and my pots were on cooldown but AotV regenerates so much mana per second that I was able to keep my auto-steady-rotation up for another 20 seconds.
About the gun. There are a few possibilities aside the 2 you mentioned. You've got 133 of 137 hit-rating, so you can switch to a bow or crossbow (Attumens Crossbow or Sunfury-Bow from Prince Malchezaar).
I don't know your realm and the prices, but depending on your wallet you can buy yourself [Don Santos' Famous Hunting Rifle]. The proc makes it a good weapon and you don't have to wait for your luck.
Oh, about your WWS-Logs. I only know the fight against Leotheras of the three you posted, but on the other 2 fights you've got kind of a 1:0.75 rotation. Some more steady shots will increase your dmg.
Appreciate the response Bronkje. Yeah I have been watching for the Don Santos' Rifle.. it's 2k gold on my server and rarely shows up. But at this point I'd pay it!
Is it really worth switching to AotV and losing iAotH? I am a BM hunter afterall!
Sorry if I am not understanding this, but are you saying you will draw aggro because you are missing Blessing of Salvation?
You are talking about hunters - you have the best aggro reducing ability in the game already. I do not want or need Blessing of Salvation, and neither should you. If you guys are drawing aggro, you seriously need to work on aggro awareness and how and when to use feign death.
Surprisingly a lot of people think that all dps should get Salv ahead of everything else. I've been making the same push in my guild (that to date hasn't had very many competent/active hunter) to give top priority to Might, Kings, and Wisdom instead of following the mentality of 'all dps gets Salv'. Some people come to rely on it, and get lazy about watching aggro without it. Personally having Salv makes me less attentive to aggro, but I digress.
In essence he's saying that if Salv gets put at the bottom of their blessing priority the other hunters might accidentally slip and pull aggro (due to being unaccustomed to the changes in threat generation). Not much of an excuse, but it happens. If such a thing were to occur the Raid Leader would probably reassign Salv as the top priority buff- therefore displacing one of the more useful buffs. From the sounds of it, they won't get second chances.
No, a well-played hunter should never require Blessing of Salvation (but then again, how many well-played hunters do you find out there?)
* Note: I usually run with the 2nd point in savage strikes and 5/5 Imp Hawk (without Scatter shot) but we've had a lot of recruits and the shifted points help with our heroic trial runs.
I especially interested in any tips to help with Hydross and Leo (especially Leo).
Yesterday it had some serious mana-problems with Voidreaver too.
And for the first time I tried the new and improved Aspect of the Viper. I was quite impressed =) I had about 200-300 mana left and my pots were on cooldown but AotV regenerates so much mana per second that I was able to keep my auto-steady-rotation up for another 20 seconds.
About the gun. There are a few possibilities aside the 2 you mentioned. You've got 133 of 137 hit-rating, so you can switch to a bow or crossbow (Attumens Crossbow or Sunfury-Bow from Prince Malchezaar).
I don't know your realm and the prices, but depending on your wallet you can buy yourself [Don Santos' Famous Hunting Rifle]. The proc makes it a good weapon and you don't have to wait for your luck.
Oh, about your WWS-Logs. I only know the fight against Leotheras of the three you posted, but on the other 2 fights you've got kind of a 1:0.75 rotation. Some more steady shots will increase your dmg.
I bought DSFHR for 900 gold about 2 months ago and i rarely use it anymore. Our Guild is now on the Ilidan Council and there isnt alot fo fights were i can just sit still and dish out the damage. If your starting SSC then it is a great weapon but the main problem is the weapon is great when it procs but average when it doesnt. My procs came out to about 4% not the 7% others thought before.
Surprisingly a lot of people think that all dps should get Salv ahead of everything else. I've been making the same push in my guild (that to date hasn't had very many competent/active hunter) to give top priority to Might, Kings, and Wisdom instead of following the mentality of 'all dps gets Salv'. Some people come to rely on it, and get lazy about watching aggro without it. Personally having Salv makes me less attentive to aggro, but I digress.
In essence he's saying that if Salv gets put at the bottom of their blessing priority the other hunters might accidentally slip and pull aggro (due to being unaccustomed to the changes in threat generation). Not much of an excuse, but it happens. If such a thing were to occur the Raid Leader would probably reassign Salv as the top priority buff- therefore displacing one of the more useful buffs. From the sounds of it, they won't get second chances.
No, a well-played hunter should never require Blessing of Salvation (but then again, how many well-played hunters do you find out there?)
You are actually raising a point about raiding that often gets overlooked.
Understanding the difference between a problem that comes from playing poorly, and one that comes from improper raid configuration.
Getts Salv instead of Kings, for example, is a HUGE error. In most cases, you are trading DPS for...nothing. Since a hunter should be able to control aggro without Salv, the addition of Salv adds nothing. When a RL says "Joe The Hunter pulled aggro - from now on, Hunters get Salv!" what he is really saying is "We don't want to get better, we just want to find simple fixes!". The fix is for Joe The hunter to learn, not for Betty the Paladin to gimp Joes (and all the other Hunters) dps.
These, IMO, are generally the guilds that don't progress until Blizzard nerfs the encounters into triviality. This, IMO, is very often the difference between a good and mediocre raid and raid leader.
I would suggest to the OP that he click of Salv if it is given to him, and whisper a Pally to toss on something useful in its place. When his DPS is 10% higher than the other hunters, and the RL wants to know why....
Hey all, I have been following this thread along with a couple others for a while now.. Until recently I wasn't running anything noteworthy enough to get on WWS.
Anyway, my gear is well below what it should be for end-game but honestly, my guild needs competent hunters and they are trying to gear me up quickly so they are dealing with my sub-par performance in the hopes I will be geared for BT when we get there. Which should be soon!
Anyway, here is a link to my performance in SSC... One thing I noted was that I ran out of mana a lot and ended up with an auto only shot rotation. Not sure how to fix that honestly other then to continue to get geared up.
As for my gun, yes I know it sucks but I am hoping to get Wolfslayer or Arcanite soon! If only one of them would drop!
Mark of Conquest is incredibly easy to obtain and gives between 35-45 mp5. With the same passive AP as the trinkets you have now imo its a huge upgrade. I'd always choose aspect of the viper and use special then to not use specials with aspect of the hawk. Your steady shots will be critting for 2k at some point and for such a mana efficient spell you should be doing steady's all fight long.
On a fight like Tidewalker there is no reason that your pallies shouldn't keep up Judgement of Wisdom. I get like 15k mana back from that. It is as good as having a shadow priest in your group. If you have Judgement of Wisdom... you'll be confused as to why your mana never goes down.
Getts Salv instead of Kings, for example, is a HUGE error. In most cases, you are trading DPS for...nothing.
Just to clarify, this applies to most cases, but not all. In cases where a Feign Death resist causes you to halt DPS (a good example is Reliquary of Souls: Essence of Anger), Salvation is an appropriate choice. What's important is that you consider the utility according to the fight.
With that said, Berkut is generally correct that putting Blessing of Salv on hunters is a band-aid for a problem that can be fixed with simple attentiveness.
I was checking out the new arena weapons for season 3 and will be buying one when they come out to raid with. I was gong to get the gun, being as I am a dwarf and the 1% crit bonus was appealing, but the damage range on the bow confused me a bit.
The bow only has 1 damage range (279-280) where as the gun has a damage range of 113 (223-336). Would this make the bow better DPS as it's more consistant or would the damage range on the gun average out over a fight to equal the same as the bow and the 1% crit bonus make the gun better?
The bow only has 1 damage range (279-280) where as the gun has a damage range of 113 (223-336). Would this make the bow better DPS as it's more consistant or would the damage range on the gun average out over a fight to equal the same as the bow and the 1% crit bonus make the gun better?
The average damage is the same. I'm assuming they're also equal speed, and otherwise identical (no +x RAP on one, or something like that). Disregarding the racial, they will, over time, do equal DPS. In short term use, one might be a bit higher/lower, due to randomness.
With the racial taken into account, the gun pulls ahead (for dwarves, bow for trolls).
That said, I seem to remember the damage range of said gun being changed to be a 'proper' damage range, instead of a damage difference of 1.
Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max
Just to clarify, this applies to most cases, but not all. In cases where a Feign Death resist causes you to halt DPS (a good example is Reliquary of Souls: Essence of Anger), Salvation is an appropriate choice. What's important is that you consider the utility according to the fight.
With that said, Berkut is generally correct that putting Blessing of Salv on hunters is a band-aid for a problem that can be fixed with simple attentiveness.
I found it usefull to have Salvation also on Leo, there are so many threat resets, that you cant keep up with fd, so with Salvation your able to do more damage then other blessing would give.
Is it really worth switching to AotV and losing iAotH? I am a BM hunter afterall!
I'm with Needhamizer on this point.
It's better to loose 155 AP and still be able to perform a auto-steady-rotation than to stay with AotH and wait for mana and pot-cooldown.
Remember, AotV was changed with patch 2.2(?). The mana-regeneration now depends on your mana left. If your oom it regenerates alot mana per second and doesn't affect your mana-regen when you've got full mana.
Originally Posted by Kaladian
I bought DSFHR for 900 gold about 2 months ago and i rarely use it anymore. Our Guild is now on the Ilidan Council and there isnt alot fo fights were i can just sit still and dish out the damage. If your starting SSC then it is a great weapon but the main problem is the weapon is great when it procs but average when it doesnt. My procs came out to about 4% not the 7% others thought before.
Yeah, I hope so. It would be sad if a pre-kara-epic would be the best weapon until the end of tier6-instances =)
During the T4-instances I would buy it when the loot-tables hates me.
In SSC and TK I'm not sure. On one side Don Santos is a great weapon, but with the possible drops Don Santos is outgunned. But then again [Arcanite Steam-Pistol] is really ugly =)
For Koroshiya it looks like waiting for a good drop is the option. Because 2000g isn't cheap, and his guild is equipping him to be able to do T6-instances. A tricky situation.
10/29/07, 6:00 PM
