Auto lightning breath still sucks.

Bite has a 10s cooldown so while it is better damage and damage/focus than Claw or Gore, it won't represent as much of the total damage for a fight.

Hello,

I've been playing a Survival Hunter (Pepe on Feathermoon) in several raids and I've never really had mana issues, even with what I consider a DPS weak raid. A Shadow Priest would definitely help but I've usually had to make due without one.

I almost never run out of mana in most fights, and if I get the <Low Mana> message, I switch to Aspect of the Viper. At this point, the Hunter's Mark is maxed out on extra AP, so that can make up for the loss of AP from Aspect of the Hawk. Usually if I have to do that though, the fight is taking too long because of deaths, learning the fight, etc.

I've heard some hunters don't really care for the mp5 stat but I've found it pretty helpful. Also I'd prefer the Blessing of Wisdom for boss fights, the longevity to cast longer makes up for the lack of AP from Blessing of Might. Also, I don't know how many other hunters use them, but the Mana Oils are great for your weapon since we can't use poisons or sharpening stones. Pretty basic, but hey, just covering the bases.

You can get about 80-120 mp5 which should be enough to at least keep your auto/steady rotation going.

I don't know if it's been brought up anywhere (I've tried to read all the hunter threads as best as I can), but Thrill of the Hunt and Efficiency combined actually return 44% mana back instead of 40% because TotH will still return mana based on the original cost of the spell. If you find opportunities to use Multi-shot, a triple-crit will gain mana for you. Rare instance, but possible such as trash pulls and add burn down on bosses. These crits along with the mp5 should be enough to keep you being able to keep casting Steady shot, Arcane shot, and Kill Command.

Ultimately, if I have to switch to Aspect of the Viper, I never run out of mana. It keeps me steady over 1800 mana and I never run lower and I don't drink any mana potions at all. I'm pretty sure a lot of classes go through the same mana issues as hunters, especially mages.

Pet's Growl works more like sunder, it generates some value of threat (might be wrong, but afair that value is scaling with hunter's RAP). And like every other melee skill it can miss (not resist). So Animal Handler (and any other + pet's hit modifier) always applyied to the pet's Growl.
Personally I don't see why it would make Animal Handler more appealing talent than it is now. It gives a lot (2/4%) hit for pet - more damage, more crits: higher FI and Frenzy uptimes, while pets have the same miss chance as any 1h melee. And it is the easiest way to increase it, other ways are getting draenei racial or Imp. Fearie Fire from Boomkins.

Hello fellow Hunters. I have been browsing EJ forums off and on, and I finally decided that I should find out what the rest of you think of my damage, gear, dps, and rotation. My guild is currently working on Vashj and Kael and I would like to find out what the Hunter community thinks I can do to improve.

I am 41/20 basic cookie cutter build but i have yet to see a fight that Imp Mend Pet is very useful on. I use a Ravager with Gore and Bite trained. I use the standard BM shot rotation macro but 2.3 seems to have made it awkward and I am thinking about manually weaving but my connection can get bad occasionally.


Heres my guilds WWS of VR, Hydross, Lurker, and Tidewalker Prvtdonut - Parse. I am currently trying to get other guildmembers to run WWS since I am the only one running it. One of the hunters dislikes meters for some reason, the priest class rep dislikes them, and it is getting difficult to find someone who will run it.

If you find anything I could do better or that I am doing wrong please don't hesitate to tell me.

# of Auto Shots fired:......1044
# of Steady Shots Fired:....622\
# of Arcane Shots Fired:....103 |---- Specials Fired: 767
# Multishots fired:..............42/

Auto:Special - 1044:767
Deaths- 5

Kohevain
Auto:Special - 997:1324
Deaths-2

Sthellesta
Auto:Special - 1286:838
Deaths- 2

Moral of the story- Make your special count match your auto shot count, and die less

Granted, I didn't get to look at everyone's gear, but that seems to be the biggest thing. Despite Sthellesta having a poor Auto:Special ratio, they fired 313 more shots than you (presumably because they lived longer).

Thanks, I'll play around with it more.

Should I be trying to use more Arcane/Multi? My Xbow is the welfare epic arena one and I haven't seen a Wolfslayer drop, so I am looking at a 2.17 speed which is bad I know.

And are you looking at deaths from the whole run or just bosses? Because on Tidewalker I died in a grave because the healer didn't have time or didnt heal me, sigh. And I seem to have bad luck on trash getting one-shot by an aura, or the tank falls off, or I fall off.

Thanks for your answer. You're right with pet's Growl applying some value of threat and not working like a druid's Growl.
I use Scrolling Combat Text Damage to display my and my pet's damage and when Growl doesn't work, I read the message "resist(Growl)". I must admit that I didn't look into the combat log if Growl was resisted or missed, have to do that later. IF it is really treated as a melee skill and therefor missed and not resisted then of course Animal Handler works and always worked.
Please explain why Animal Handler leads to more crits. I thought melee attacks work with a one-roll system where hit and crit are independant? Are pets an exception to this?

Hey guys, I was wondering if I could get some input from some of you about whether or not these WWS reports look right for a hunter with my gear/gem/enchant choices. I've raided all of SSC and TK, but am still being beat out by rogues, mages, warlocks, and the like. I am specced the 41/20/00 cookie cutter build and use a steady shot auto shot macro while weaving in arcane shots/multi-shots when available. I've read through the other posts in this thread and a few others but would like some input on the meters directly. Thanks in advance and am looking forward to any form of tips/comments.

WWS- Civilian (The first seperate TK and SSC are the ones I'm questioning about)

I was mostly concerned about overall DPS and position as compared to other classes.

First, Prvtdonut:

As Iod already covered, your Auto to special ratio could be better. Remember, you want to shoot for 1:1 ideally. Right now, you're around rougly 1:0.7 overall. However, I do see that you are a bit over it for a couple of encounters. The WWS does show some recorded hits, so unless you're purposefully in a set that lowers your +hit, make sure you have 142 hit rating for every boss encounter. As far as your macro goes, yes, I would try manually timing it. Even just on trash, it's always a good thing to get a solid feel for. I run ~250-300 ms and usually an fps in the teens, with a weapon speed relative to yours and I don't normally have trouble manually timing it when I feel like.

Your gear, enchants, and gems look solid, though you could change from the 6 Stam/4 Crit gem to a 4 Agi/4 Hit gem, or I believe there's a 4 Crit/8 AP gem out there now also. I'd say that that's not a huge "need to do" thing unless you want to regem and get a bit more hit out of it.

Also, consider a couple things you haven't mentioned: How does your gear compare to the other hunters? Do they have some "crucial" items you don't, like the T5 4 piece for instance? Are the people ahead of you getting Heroism and you aren't? Do they have a feral and you don't? Etc.

@ Brandini:

State which WWS you would like us to look at, please.

On spec, you need to drop your three points in SV and put them in Mortal Shots. You can't not have all 5 in that talent, regardless of spec.

On gear. First, make sure you have a 142 hit rating set for bosses. Your hit for trash doesn't really matter all that much. I do trash in 113 hit.

Second big thing is that you really need to get a better trinket than the Talon. Yes, it's not terrible, but it is by far not the best you can have, including from 5-man dungeons. Go get an [Hourglass of the Unraveller]. Your meta gem should be [Relentless Earthstorm Diamond]. The cloak isn't terrible, but you should look into getting a better one with more AP when you can, and keep this one in the bank. [Vengeance Wrap] is a great one. Plus, you can socket it for extra hit if you need to, like mine is atm. I personally would recommend dropping your axe for [Blackened Spear]. You lose the stam, but you can keep the axe there for when you need that hp boost. The spear will give you more AP, including 26 Agility which will buff your crit, and that alone would also resolve your hit issue if 129 is what you do bosses as. Finally, 15 Agi glove enchant when you can. On a side, you could also make the [Ebon Netherscale Bracers] if you haven't already and have them in reserve if you need some extra stam.

Hopefully I helped you both out at least a little bit.

To Lindelle:

First off, my gem is for my Meta gem, Relentless Earthstorm Diamond, to work. My Hit rating is around 120 unfortunately. I recently aquired the Belt of the Black Eagle which reduced my hit. I felt that the rare occasion that I would miss was balanced out by crit/ap, its not ideal, but it works for me.

Kohevain is Marks, Sthell is Beast. Koh has 2 piece t5 but other than that we are somewhat equally geared. Generally our "hunter" group consists for 2-3 Bm hunters and 1 marks hunter. We usually don't get a feral druid since we have one, and it goes to the shaman/melee group. Unfortunately, Hydross doesn't want to drop the chest, and even then my DKP is behind a few of the hunters. We have just started ZA and working on Zul'jin but my work schedule hasn't allowed me to raid ZA for the Arrow Fall Chestguard either.

Long time reader, first time poster.

A bit about me: i play hunter since release on the same server, the same guild. TBC has been rough on our casual player community, but we managed to survive and we regularly one shot Hydross/Lurker/Morogrim/Voidwalker and working on Karathres.

I've been MM/SV for the whole vanilla WoW and specced BM/MM for Karazhan/Gruul, after seeing posts from Howitzer and Lactose. Then I started getting interest in Survival Tree, after i understood you need a certain amount of gear to make it work(comments about my gear are most welcomed). At the moment, i am SV spec, classic 0/20/41. A few observations:

a) I have 3/3 EW, and i still notice times when it falls off, even with 52% crit raid buffed and MT active.
b) I gave up my pig and my cat for my Windserpent for fast focus dump
c) I regularly am top 5 dps on both trash and bosses. I do not have a WWS to exemplify, but surely this should not be the case? Our top 5 usually includes a mix of classes like hunters/mages/warlocks/rogues so i guess this is mostly a skill issue? I find it a bit strange to have a raid buff spec place so high on damage meters

About my damage rotation, i used an auto/steady/arcane /auto/steady/multy occasionally with a scorpid sting (i always make sure it's up). Then i went and tested at Doctor Boom. The results are not that accurate, as i used very rudimentary methods, but here it is:

Using Arcane and Multyshot whenever the cooldown is up, immediately after a steady shot yielded, over 2 minutes:

a) 99837 damage, with a 6200 mana consumption (42 autoshots fired)
b) 103800 damage, with a 6600 mana consumption (42 autoshots fired)

Using Arcane and Multyshot whenever the cooldown is up, but instead of a steady shot yielded, over 2 minutes:

c) 78630 damage, with a 6200 mana consumption (46 autoshots fired)

After taking a look at those, i noticed the low number of autoshots fired in the first 2 tests. So I realized I was delaying my autoshots, and it probably because multyshots 0.5 second casting time. So i did another 2 tests only using arcane shot when the cooldown is up, immediately after a steady shot:

d) 90862 damage, with a 6700 mana consumption (46 autoshots fired)
e) 88800 damage with a 6800 mana consumption (46 autoshots fired)

Keeping in mind that i was using Multyshot in the a) and b) tests and that it regularly hit 2 of Dr. Boom's ads, I realized that only using arcane with steady results in more or less the same damage as using both specials, but with a higher number of autoshots. Is this purely because of my latency (100-150) and/or multyshots 0.5 casting time?

Thank you for having the patience to read all this, comments are most welcome.

Hello, I have awnsered some questions in here before So I had a small one off my own

Not really a help me please, but I am getting a new computer soon.
At this time my dps is really dependable on my FPS (I do more in some heroics than fully raidbuffed at times), am I correct assuming that going from 8-12 FPS in raids (about 1100 dps, I can get way more with my gear) to 50-60 FPS will make my dps allot better?

@Prvtdonut: Don´t forget, that there is Spicy Hot Talbuk since 2.3. I love it for raiding atm, since I´ve also not yet reached the hit-cap. I will be at 142 Hit in near future, but till the drops occur, this food is a very good alternative to temporarily cover the lack of hit-rating.

Thorongil- Yes I have that recipe and am using them whenever I have the ingredients. I just recently got them so I haven't farmed for the mats yet.

No they aren't. I wasn't thinking it seems -.-

Yeah, originally when I got the T4 helm, I had one other piece of gear with sockets. I haven't really found a good blue or yellow gem, and with us working on Vashj and having Hydross on farm, I will end up resocketting for a better gem.

Last night while raiding ( and taking 2 weeks off prior ) i noticed that fiegn death was not working as an agro whipe on boss fights. Is this some sort of bug, or with 2.3 did they change how fiegn death works? Mayby i missed something in a patch note while i was not around ?

Feign Death still works normally with regard to a threat wipe. It does resist sometimes, and I have found that you must let the animation finish for the threat wipe to occur reliably.

The only thing that was changed about FD is that it no longer removes you from combat, this has significant repercussions with regard to FD-Drink / FD-FeedPet and it also means no more mid-fight trinket swapping. It does still allow you to avoid repair costs at wipes though.

Certain threat meters (KTM specifically) do not see Feign Death as a threat wipe even when it does not resist.
This is incorrect.
Omen handles this correctly, wiping aggro on a successful Feign Death.

I will switch over from KTM to Omen when i get home, since that is most likely my problem. Thanks for the help

Hi there,

beeing a passive reader for a long time, this seems to be the thread where i finally do sum up my own theorycrafting questions for which i found no answer using the search-function.

I play a troll hunter on an EU server currently raiding MH/BT (first 3 bosses of each Instance down) and seem do be doing a quite good job swimming at the surface of most WWS-Stats so far. Like most people i make plans about what gear i will need to do a good job in the next encounters up to Illidan.

Haste/Rotation:
In my own spreadsheets, where i try to compare items slotwise by adding individual values for each stat, items with Hasterating end up dominating almost every slot where a Hasterating item is available. The discussion further back in this thread regarding Haste seems to leave out the fact that haste also affects the casttime of Steady Shot providing more space for lag and autoshot casttime(0.5).

(SS + Quiver included)
Wolfslayer 2.7:
AS: 1.96s
SS: 1.09s
-------------
0.87s for Lag + KC + Autoshotcasttime

Anyranged 3.0(with 175 Hasterating):
AS: 1.96s
SS: 0.98s
-------------
0.98s for Lag + KC + Autoshotcasttime

What i'm trying to say is that 1.96 may be golden in a non-haste situation but when using haste-items the optimum would be somewhere else (obviously depending on the weaponspeed). With a 3.0 weapon you would achieve the same "buffer-time" for Lag+KC+Autoshotcasttime as Wolfslayer2.7(without haste) somewhere around 393 Hasterating (i believe it was stated similary before), which i interpret as the Hasterating "cap" (ignoring IaotH). Please correct me if im wrong.

Now if 393 Hasterating would be the actual cap, i could reach out for everey hasteitem available since i would not reach the cap anyways but if i want to keep a smooth rotation when IaotH is up (and i do ) the cap comes down to a serious level of round about 136 Hasterating. This means that my lag does make a difference and i need to know what would be my personal golden "buffer-time". If a 0.7 "buffer-time" would be enough this could mean that i can wear another hasterating item. So why is 0.87 such a perfect value? I know Autoshot needs 0.5 seconds and that the lag comes somewhere inbetween, but im not sure of the exact calculations for this.

Actual question:
Assuming Auto/Steady-Rotation, where exactly is the Lag accounted for? After the Autoshot and before Steady? What about KC? Does it in any way delay the autoshot and if yes how much? Do i have to account for the lag a second time due to KC like "auto - lag1 - steady - lag2 - KC - auto" whilst the lag would only occur once when leaving out KC "auto - lag1 - steady - auto"? What i need is a exact number for the Buffertime i need given Auto/Steady/KC Rotation at a given Lag (say 150ms or whatever), so that i can determine how much Haste i can actually go for. Does haste also decrease the cast-time of Autoshot?

Haste/Tradeoffs:
Yes, haste does not affect my pet and therefore only affects round about 80% of my overall dps. Still, it is a %ual increase in dmg and i believe there are enough slots where no hasterating is available where you can increase your base-dmg and the dmg of your pet anyways. So, the better your gear gets, the more you get out of your hasterating.
Is there any given situation where non haste high-end items would be better than given high-end stuff?

I have these Haste-Items at the moment:
[Shoulders of Lightning Reflexes]
[Bindings of Lightning Reflexes]

And i would try to get (at least another two of):
[Fists of Mukoa]
[Valestalker Girdle]
[Band of Devastation]
[Arrow-fall Chestguard](there are good non-haste replacements for this one)

Theoretically resulting in 198 Hasterating (which is above cap for IaotH)

Another actual Question:
Now, which items should i go for and which not given a high-end raid-char with 1300 Cheeky-dps and should i try to reach the hasterating cap or not?

Thanks in advance...