Kamaa's right. I'm a self described mediocre hunter and we have what I assume to be a verily skilled MM hunter who I just blow away while hardly trying if BM. Granted if I'm SV/MM on ROS I get curbstomped, but eh...I'll figure it out soon enough.
Numbers wise though. TA gives what 180 AP to the party? And that's only physical. Compared to 3% all damage increase as BM which is up almost always up it's a curbstomp. Not to mention while both specs rely on max shots/second, MM and SV are naturally slower and it takes a degree of skill higher than pure steady/auto with things weaved in during time buffers. As for MM pure vs SV/MM in raids, EW should give atleast 150 AP to the raids physical group. And unless you have a whopping 6 physical dps in the raid including SV/MM hybrid, the utility beats out MM, though I will admit I haven't mastered out dpsing the pure MM.
Eh, call it a fool's quest, but I want to find a way to at least get to 700DPS with a MM hunter or even an MM/Surv hunter. I admit I'm a nutter. I tried the BM spec for a couple days, but I ended up dead more often then not. My pet couldn't keep agro for flip, and I honestly wasn't putting out anymore DPS then I was when I was MM specced.
I'm not sure if this has been addressed, but I'm still getting this problem when I try to plug in different ranged weapons on the spreadsheet. According the little "Hunter DPS/Total DPS" window on the gear page of the spreadsheet, Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle outdoes everything by a lot. For example, with Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle plugged in, I get 820.31 in Hunter DPS. If I plug in anything else, it goes way down. I plug in Vengeful Gladiator's Rifle and it goes down to 802.61, or 801.39 with Arcanite Steam Pistol. Of course, I have the correct ammunition and ammo bags set. Is this just an error on the stats for the sniper rifle? Are all of the other weapon's calculations accurate?
I'm guessing you're a beast master, and you used a 1:1 rotation. The results are then rather normal; Wolfslayer is just that good because it's a 2.6 speed. So, the wasted time between a steady and the subsequent autoshot is at a minimum. Get a good few haste items and plug the data in; Wolfslayer should now clip your autoshots, and Arcanite or Vengeful gladiator should outdps it constantly.
I'm guessing that when you guys say "1:1 rotation," you're talking about a simple steady/auto/steady/auto sequence. Doesn't haste also affect the speed of your steady shots? If so, how would haste change the timing or the ratio of steady/auto? I guess I'm missing something about how all of this works. I don't understand how the Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle can give me greater damage output than the Vengeful Gladiator's Rifle. I also don't understand how, as long as my auto shot firing is greater than 1.5 seconds, I'm going to be clipping shots. The shot rotation macro makes sure that your steady shots fire within the auto shots, right? It wouldn't start another steady shot before the auto shot finishes, so how would I be clipping shots?
On a side note, am I supposed to be working arcane shots and multi-shots into my rotation, or should I be hitting them manually at specific times?
*snip*
As for your most recent question. 1% crit is 1% damage increase.
*snip*
Unfortunately this is not true.
I'll take easy numbers to make the calculation as easy as possible.
Let's say you have 25% crit and are hit-capped. A non-crit makes 100 dmg. A crit makes 200 (Mortal Shots not skilled).
Normal shots: 75 each for 100 dmg => 7'500 dmg
Crits: 25 each for 200 dmg => 5'000 dmg
Total DMG: 12'500 dmg
If you manage it to increase your crit-chance by 1 percent without changing your other stats, it'll look like this:
Normal shots: 74 each for 100 dmg => 7'400 dmg
Crits: 26 each for 200 dmg => 5'200 dmg
Total DMG: 12'600 dmg
As you see, you gain 100 dmg from 1% crit. This is in fact: 100 / 12'500 = 0.008 or 0.8% dmg-increase.
The same calculation with mortal shots skilled:
With 25% crit-chance:
Normal shots: 75 each for 100 dmg => 7'500 dmg
Crits: 25 each for 230 dmg => 5'750 dmg
Total DMG: 13'250 dmg
With an additional 1% crit-chance:
Normal shots: 74 each for 100 dmg => 7'400 dmg
Crits: 26 each for 230 dmg => 5'980 dmg
Total DMG: 13'380 dmg
With skilled mortal shots, you gain an additional 130 dmg with 1% more crit.
This is a gain of: 130 / 13250 = 0.0098 or 0.98% dmg-increase.
And the more crit you already have, the less is the gain of an additional (percent-wise).
Off-topic of what is being discussed above I am curious about something.
Do we know the actual "numbers" on how good Armor Penetration is?
The reason I ask is I have been taking a good look at 2x Dagger of Bad Mojo in replace of my Halberd of Desolation.
Cheeky's shows it as an overall DPS loss, but if you exclude the loss of hit the 2 daggers should theoretically be better.
Thanks for any replies.
Edit - The hit can also be made up elsewhere, but even putting myself back at the hit cap Cheeky's still showed it as a DPS loss.
We need a sticky for this... it's depends how much armour your target has. Play with the spreadsheet, you'll see that the less armour the mob has, the greater the DPS increase from Armour Pen.
We need a sticky for this... it's depends how much armour your target has. Play with the spreadsheet, you'll see that the less armour the mob has, the greater the DPS increase from Armour Pen.
Equally important to the base armor of the mob is the the ammount of armor penetration you have. The more armor penetration you have (and therefore the lower the mobs armor value) the more DPS you'll gain per point of armor penetration. 2x [Dagger of Bad Mojo] is a part of the best theoretical DPS available to hunters at this time, as can be seen here.
Equally important to the base armor of the mob is the the ammount of armor penetration you have. The more armor penetration you have (and therefore the lower the mobs armor value) the more DPS you'll gain per point of armor penetration. 2x [Dagger of Bad Mojo] is a part of the best theoretical DPS available to hunters at this time, as can be seen here.
Armor penetration is a great stat, but for me personally it doesn't begin to take off until the 500+ mark.
Ok - I see what you're saying. I guess, and this is just semantics, the best way to put it is:
The DPS gain per point of armour penetration increases as your opponent's effective armour approaches zero, until it finally reaches zero, at which point no further increase is possible.
Is there a macro out there that will allow me to spam an Autoshot, steady shot, Arcane shot rotation, and at the same time allow me use Kill comand, Bladefist breadth, and unity charm when available?
I am sure this is already out there but I can't seem to find it in any forums. And believe me I've been looking. I have been playing my hunter for about 2 years now, and I just started using a shot macro about a month ago. I have seen my dps go up quite significantly as a result. I am just trying to improve my dps further.
Recently I respecced to MM with -1sec arcane shot talent, I play in an oceanic svr with 500+ms and i tried a 1:1.5 rotation using /castsequence reset=6 Steady Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, Auto Shot.
There is this problem with the macro "hanging" for a period of 1 auto shot when the Arcane shot somehow came after the auto shot instead of after steady shot, ie. steady -- auto ---steady ---auto --arcane (the macro got locked out for 2sec) ---auto ----
Is there any macro or method to ensure arcane shot always go off after the 2nd steady shot? So far the only method for me is to jam the macro when I know the arcane shot is goin to fire off soon but its kinda fustrating to miss it every now and then n get the "hanging" thingy.
Recently I respecced to MM with -1sec arcane shot talent, I play in an oceanic svr with 500+ms and i tried a 1:1.5 rotation using /castsequence reset=6 Steady Shot, Auto Shot, Steady Shot, Arcane Shot, Auto Shot.
There is this problem with the macro "hanging" for a period of 1 auto shot when the Arcane shot somehow came after the auto shot instead of after steady shot, ie. steady -- auto ---steady ---auto --arcane (the macro got locked out for 2sec) ---auto ----
Is there any macro or method to ensure arcane shot always go off after the 2nd steady shot? So far the only method for me is to jam the macro when I know the arcane shot is goin to fire off soon but its kinda fustrating to miss it every now and then n get the "hanging" thingy.
I don't have a solution to your specific problem but after getting my 4/5 T5 I've started using a 1:1 steady only rotation
and my macro sometimes gets "stuck" too. The best answer is to manually weave shots, but if you're stubborn like I am you can use a solution similar to mine.
My macro doesn't stick often, but when it does I just hit steady shot (the spell, not tied to any macro) and the macro functions fine for a while after that. I don't know why or where it's hanging up, but as long as I'm quick I don't miss a single special. One at the most.
For what it's worth, I never noticed this problem prior to 2.3 and I'm hoping 2.3.2 with it's !auto shot changes will fix the problem.
Hello,
I have been a casual reader of the hunter forums for a while now. I haven't posted much but now I have some questions to ask. I would like to know As a BM hunter what speed do i clip shots. I am using a 2.9 speed bow at the moment. I have also been using haste potions in raids to increase my dps. I Would like to start stacking haste rating, but don't want to clip. Also, I would like to know, as a 41/20 BM hunter, is it more useful to stack Crit over AP? Right now my current stats are 29.77% Crit and 1915 ap and I'm hit capped. Thanks you for all your help any comments are appreciated.
Equally important to the base armor of the mob is the the ammount of armor penetration you have. The more armor penetration you have (and therefore the lower the mobs armor value) the more DPS you'll gain per point of armor penetration. 2x [Dagger of Bad Mojo] is a part of the best theoretical DPS available to hunters at this time, as can be seen here.
Basically it´s true, they are the best dps-wise, but I reckon the melee-weapon is a very good place to stack stamina. In comparison to the s3-Hunter-Axe I lose a minimum amount of damage, but gain 62 Stamina, which is a lot. Yes, normally hunters don´t have problems with stamina, but there are quite some items, that are awesome dps-wise but don´t feature stamina. I e.g. ran through whole SSC and TK with under 10k HP buffed (e.g. Mantle of the tireless Tracker is an incredible shoulder-item, same goes for the Truestrike-Ring and several others) and only now, that we are beginning to progress in Hyjal i have to stack a bit of stamina (which isn´t hard at all, given the fact that e.g. the S3-helm is on par with T6). In the end it goes down to this: Hunters do need stamina, as like anybody else does in a raid. And the melee-weapon is just the place, where you lose the fewest dps-stats in exchange for it.
It's a loss of 18 DPS to swap the daggers for the S3 hunter weapon. I'm usually running 10-11k health raid buffed and I have more survivability than the majority of the other DPS classes. I'll take as much DPS as I can get my hands on.
Hey everyone, long time reader, first time poster.
I've been going over my WWS logs, and the same thing keeps popping up: my Steady Shot crits much more often than my Auto-shot. I'm talking like 10% more. Is this just a freak occurance that this has happend for the last few weeks in a row, or am I missing some mechanic that modifies the crit chance. I've attached a WWS log from Gruul last week (thats me at the top). I recorded this myself so it should be accurate for me at least.
Hey everyone, long time reader, first time poster.
I've been going over my WWS logs, and the same thing keeps popping up: my Steady Shot crits much more often than my Auto-shot. I'm talking like 10% more. Is this just a freak occurance that this has happend for the last few weeks in a row, or am I missing some mechanic that modifies the crit chance. I've attached a WWS log from Gruul last week (thats me at the top). I recorded this myself so it should be accurate for me at least.
There are about a half dozen things you'll likely be reported for with that one post, so you'll probably want to read the stickies. That said, there are two brief answers to your question.
A) It's random and shouldn't be repeated on a regular basis.
B) If you have 4/5 T5 your steady shot should crit 5% more often than your auto shots, but you shouldn't see 10% more crits even with the set bonus.
I'm confused as to how he can be reported for wondering if his freak occurence may be attributed to some hidden mechanic he is not aware of.
I would assume that it was due to more steadies than autos but your parse shows that more autos were fired. Still, I don't see how critting 1% more of the time leads to that idea unless 27% of 31% leads to a 10% ratio increase versus 26% of 36%. I agree with Kamaa in wondering if you are in T5 but I assume no because you are fighting Gruul.
What I'm more interested in is how your locks did so poorly and why they all have ~~~iel names?
In order for your question to be properly answered you would need to bring up multiple WWS parses, I see that steady does crit more than auto, but seeing multiple strings would better call the 'fluke' not a fluke.
I wouldn't be worried, as freak values do occur. However, upon closer look on your WWS, here's something i found: Autoshot:
Number of shots that hit: 151
Number of shots that crit: 45
Steady Shot:
Number of shots that hit: 108
Number of shots that crit: 49
Now, this tells me that the value on autoshot is probably a little bit more accurate, since you have the larger sample size. Nothing to worry about, overall the difference comes down to your crit rolls being individual for each attack. Simply because you had more autoshots than steadies, but the crit rolls checks came up for evenly for steadies and autoshots you get different percentages. Basically, you have 151 + 108 = 259 hits, and 45 + 49 = 96 crits. Overall, 355 landed shots, and 96 of those crit. So, during the whole of the Gruul fight, your crit chance was 27%. Double checking on your armory, your tooltip crit chance was 28%. Pretty spot on, if I may say so
Originally Posted by Wunlastri
What I'm more interested in is how your locks did so poorly and why they all have ~~~iel names?
It's an anonymous report, that replaces actual player names with a list of loosely chosen names for the sake of (excessive, if you ask me) privacy. (paladins are the signs of the horoscope, mages are spells from Harry Potter books, hunters are titans in the Greek mythology, etc)
Originally Posted by XI-
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
I've been reading these boards, using Cheeky's spreadsheet, and researching all things hunter for quite some time now. I have a few questions which I'm hoping you can provide guidance to.
First of all, though I've seen reference to it several times in these forums I could not find the source information. Can someone please describe what "Dr. Boom" testing is?
Secondly, I am a long time stubborn MM specced hunter. I am of the school of thought that believes that a skilled and geared MM hunter should be able to do as much damage as a BM hunter. However, as we have seen over and over even a dullard BM hunter can mash one macro repetedly and out DPS us by 5% or more. I find this frustrating, but it seems to be the nature of our class at this point in time. Several upgrades to gems and such would increase my DPS slightly, but I still couldn't match a BM hunter's DPS. Is there there anything I can do to to improve my DPS, or is MM raiding a lost cause?
Some notes about my character:
- Spec: 09-43-09 Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
- 90% geared through gruul needing trinket upgrades and Illhoof Belt
- 1550 AP (with Trueshot and Hawk, 2500 AP raid buffed)
- 22.5% Crit, 6.8% Hit (I am not quite hit capped)
(my current spec has improved stings, which I am dropping for faster Arcane shots - see spec above)
General Shot Rotation:
- Auto, Steady, weaving in Multi when available or Arcane when mana allows
- I try to time my Rapid fire with Multi-shot and trinket cooldowns
MM can't compete with BM. It's not your gear, your skill, your shot rotation or even your possible lag. MM mathematically and physically at this time cannot compete with BM on most fights. There is no change you can make to to influence this matter other than perhaps complaining on the Blizz forums. My advice would be to go BM. The only other viable alternative right now is SV/MM spec which brings a lot of raid utility and DPS, but unless you have ~700 w/o talents/buffs then it's probably not worth it.
I am taking the moment to post here primarly for some advice on my hunter. The link to the armory is The World of Warcraft Armory
I realize that once you look at him he aint much but i have tried my best and it appears i have gone no where. One a side note I am also curious about Macros as i have never used them and i have never understood them.
I am currently a Beast Mastery Specced Hunter doing very well in my raid groups. Since I am the top DPS hunter in the guild I have decided to try and bring more DPS to the raid as a whole. Even though I am aware my DPS will drop I am going to attempt to go Survival. I have talked with the melee in my typical raid setup and their theory craft tools from EJ show that 1 Survival in the raid and 1 BM in their group is optimal to 2 BM hunters in the group. Because they can bring in other buffs and include my EW. At the same time I can get the 5% crit from being with the tanks and the GoA from the shaman in their group.
So again I realize my DPS will drop. However, overall based on our typical raid setup it looks like we will have a net gain of around 600+ dps. This is much more then I appear to lose according to Cheeky's spreadsheet.
12/14/07, 5:07 PM
