I'd suggest moving points around to get Improved Hunter's Mark - if you're going SV to bump up melee dps, the extra 110 AP will improve things even more.
Probably those points would need to come out of your BM tree. You could keep 4/5 IAotH, drop GfTT, and wind up with 5/5 Imp HM if you're determined to keep IAotH.
I'd be interested to hear what you see as the advantages of that build are (relative to 0/20/41, say). Last I remember (this may be wrong, or have changed) master tactician was about on a par with Imp AotH, in terms of personal dps increase, and MT also gives you more EW procs and more GftT and TotH stuff.
If you have a deep, abiding love for Imp AotH though, that would explain it
Hey all. I've had a few occurrences in the past where I use Kill Command right as a mob dies, so it doesn't really execute the action but the button stays lit and my autoshots are completely locked up. I've tried mashing the ESC key like the Raptor Strike behavior, but it's no dice. The only way I seem to get out of it is to send a few arcane and multishots in until I crit and can successfully get Kill Command to go off again. Has anyone run into this problem before? Know a quicker solution?
After a few long months here and there I've finally clamped down and started leveling my Hunter. Since changing my main to a Priest last December, my Hunter knowledge has gone down the tubes. Thanks for this amazing thread, I have written down a few of the posts (easily accessible gear @70, Shot Macros, Pet Macros, Talent builds...ect)
My problem is my Hunter is lvl 62. I figure I'll go the route of leveling in instances and doing the quests (and chains) that give me solid upgrades and saving the rest for money. (Specifically Bladefist's Breadth and Mark of Conquest)
My spec is probably weird, but the respec cost is 15g, so I can change it around if needed. So overall I'm looking for a 5-man/grinding. I assume Ferocious Inspirtation is a great 5-man talent and I picked up Imp.HM because I thought it would help my pet's damage as well as other Melee DPS, and to try and help avoid wipes/multiple pulls I'll stay BM so my pet can off tank. Is there a good Pet Assist macro to help DPS the tanks target, it seems like a get in the zone with my shot rotation and I keep forgetting to send my pet in (sometimes it chases....eeek). I use a G15 keyboard, so my Cntrl-1 keys are rebound (best to change the keybinds?)
I've heard that I won't start finding upgrades until around lvl ~65 with Full T2, then I'll look to picking up more hit. I just got Steady Shot, and am yet to use it. Is the basic Steady Shot/Auto Shot macro all I need (with manually threading in Arcane/Multi..obviously I don't have Kill Command yet)?
Yes steady/auto is all you need. When you manually "thread" in you arcane/multi (which is likely too mana intensive to bother with) just remember that these special shots replace a steady shot, they are not something you do in addition to your steady/auto rotation.
As a BM hunter you will never Auto, Steady, Multi, Auto. What you want to do is Auto, Steady, Auto, Multi, Auto, Arcane.... etc etc.
I'd be interested to hear what you see as the advantages of that build are (relative to 0/20/41, say). Last I remember (this may be wrong, or have changed) master tactician was about on a par with Imp AotH, in terms of personal dps increase, and MT also gives you more EW procs and more GftT and TotH stuff.
If you have a deep, abiding love for Imp AotH though, that would explain it
Okay, so downed 3 bosses in Hyjal last night with this new spec. As expected I did drop on the meters, the rogues cried out with joy all night long, due to me buffing them, and me receiving a decrease the disparity looked horrid... However, overall it seemed like the best choice as our overall raid damage has appeared to go up by a significant margin.
With that said here's some things I noticed.
1. Trash kiting is omg so easy now. Scatter shot doesn't work on aboms, but the imp traps literally allows range to tear one up without any heals required as it stands in the trap the whole time. (trash is a non-factor though)
2. My mana is sooo much easier to manage now.
3. Threat remains constant, so even though I do less damage now I still have to watch threat meters closely, especially since I crit more often and with a good string of crits can get myself in hot water.
4. Boss 3 I actually could keep myself above 3k mana the whole fight.
Have to run to a meeting so can't get all my thoughts down. However, in response to your question. All things are supposed to be equal and I wanted Focused Fire. As for buffing the melee class with iHM, I talked with our Rogue Officer who is an insane theorycrafter and real life friend and we crunched some numbers together and found the bonus I would add through iHM was not worth the mana loss I would receive from dropping efficiency.
4. Boss 3 I actually could keep myself above 3k mana the whole fight.
Have to run to a meeting so can't get all my thoughts down. However, in response to your question. All things are supposed to be equal and I wanted Focused Fire. As for buffing the melee class with iHM, I talked with our Rogue Officer who is an insane theorycrafter and real life friend and we crunched some numbers together and found the bonus I would add through iHM was not worth the mana loss I would receive from dropping efficiency.
Sounds like mana is not your problem. I'd suggest testing IHM. Small upgrades add up, especially when it is multiplied by the number of melee/pets available in the raid.
Sounds like mana is not your problem. I'd suggest testing IHM. Small upgrades add up, especially when it is multiplied by the number of melee/pets available in the raid.
Keeping myself above 3k involved auto-shot only, no rotation... also required potions. As BM I was incapable of staying above 3k period for that fight.
Anyway, I could potentially see your argument if there were any validity to iHM being a valuable resource, but I don't have time to peruse the rogue threads as well since keeping up with the hunters is enough in itself for me atm. However, I will talk to my buddy and find out his net gain from iHM.
Okay so using Cheeky's spreadsheet dropping my BM talents to pick up iHM results in a theoretical drop in dps by 48.
That's quite a lot. That would mean that typically 6-7 melee would have to make up the difference Not to mention I still wouldn't have MT and thus I would be critting less often. I just don't see how it's possible to be quiet honest. You'd have to either get the MT or get the iAotH, not having either is detrimental to the whole build.
If you don't have both of those chances are EW will be down more then up and thus the melee would be getting buffed for the same or less and my DPS would suffer for it.
Obviously, if there is something I am missing point it out. ;-P
However, per Cheecky's spreadsheet this would be even lower then before without a net gain for the raid.
If you can offer me a talent build that improves my raid damage and surpasses the build I put together I am all for hearing it. In fact you can now point Cheeky's spreadsheet at the armory to pull all my information down and work the numbers. But just offering advice without some actual data to back it up is tiresome. I don't mind listening to ideas but please don't send me on wild goose chases. I have worked your suggestions from all angles and each time the raid and myself suffer from the results according to Cheeky's spreadsheet.
And for the record I trust Cheeky's spreadsheet over conjecture. I trust results over Cheeky's spreadsheets. So show me better from one of those two sources and I am all ears.
After a few long months here and there I've finally clamped down and started leveling my Hunter. Since changing my main to a Priest last December, my Hunter knowledge has gone down the tubes. Thanks for this amazing thread, I have written down a few of the posts (easily accessible gear @70, Shot Macros, Pet Macros, Talent builds...ect)
My problem is my Hunter is lvl 62. I figure I'll go the route of leveling in instances and doing the quests (and chains) that give me solid upgrades and saving the rest for money. (Specifically Bladefist's Breadth and Mark of Conquest)
My spec is probably weird, but the respec cost is 15g, so I can change it around if needed. So overall I'm looking for a 5-man/grinding. I assume Ferocious Inspirtation is a great 5-man talent and I picked up Imp.HM because I thought it would help my pet's damage as well as other Melee DPS, and to try and help avoid wipes/multiple pulls I'll stay BM so my pet can off tank. Is there a good Pet Assist macro to help DPS the tanks target, it seems like a get in the zone with my shot rotation and I keep forgetting to send my pet in (sometimes it chases....eeek). I use a G15 keyboard, so my Cntrl-1 keys are rebound (best to change the keybinds?)
I've heard that I won't start finding upgrades until around lvl ~65 with Full T2, then I'll look to picking up more hit. I just got Steady Shot, and am yet to use it. Is the basic Steady Shot/Auto Shot macro all I need (with manually threading in Arcane/Multi..obviously I don't have Kill Command yet)?
Some pieces of advice I can give to help save you a lot of time reading through all these posts....
Shot Rotation - 1:1 (Priority) What this means is Auto --> Arcane --> Auto --> Multi --> Auto --> Steady --> Auto --> Arcane --> Auto --> Steady --> Auto --> Steady --> Auto --> Arcane.... .... .... (In short this means use Arcane instead of steady when it's up and Multi instead of steady when arcane is on cooldown.
I don't use a macro for Arcane or Multi. I thought I had found a good macro yesterday that included kill command and auto along with my arcane or multi-shot. But discovered it prevented me from shooting Arcane on the move. So I only use it with multi-shot which mean sI still end up clipping auto on arcane sometimes.
P.S. - Those are from memory so may require some tweaking to help you get them straight. Remember those that say macros are weak and shouldn't be used are typically referring to those that do macros like...
/castsequence reset=10 auto shot, arcane shot, auto shot, multi shot, auto shot, steady shot, auto shot, arcane shot
/castrandom [target=pettarget, exists] kill command
I would have to agree with them but not because this doesn't make things more efficient, it just means they are less like to be able to recover to changes in situation. Plus where's the fun in spamming one key all day. If I wanted to do that I would just play a FPS.
You aren't meant to sacrafice DPS talents. Trade efficiency for IHM. I can't look at your spec from work, but assuming ToTH and a decent group/raid makeup you're not likely to have mana problems. This way your total dps is increased as is the raids total increase.
It is also worth mentioning that with the current available gear Multi-Shot does more damage than Arcane Shot. This may not be true for MM because of AP bonus but for BM it is true even with the best possible game in the gear. In a 1:1rotation Multi-Shot has the priority over Arcane Shot. Not the other way around. (Purely for a DPS point of view. Mana changes everything.)
You aren't meant to sacrafice DPS talents. Trade efficiency for IHM. I can't look at your spec from work, but assuming ToTH and a decent group/raid makeup you're not likely to have mana problems. This way your total dps is increased as is the raids total increase.
It is also worth mentioning that with the current available gear Multi-Shot does more damage than Arcane Shot. This may not be true for MM because of AP bonus but for BM it is true even with the best possible game in the gear. In a 1:1rotation Multi-Shot has the priority over Arcane Shot. Not the other way around. (Purely for a DPS point of view. Mana changes everything.)
At the level I am raiding to me mana is everything.. Thus the Arcane has priority over multishot.. ;-P However if you can sustain your mana through the entire fight without losing a stride then you are absolutely right.
As for losing Efficiency for iHM I just can't bring myself to do it, not yet. I am already chain chugging potions and swapping aspects at around 20% etc.. However, this was all pre-Survival, so you may be absolutely right. I am going to raid with this spec for a little while longer and consider your idea. I realize that dropping Efficiency for iHM will give me a DPS boost and maintain my current sustained total damage, assuming I don't run out of mana.
Again, with that said, the thought of losing Efficiency never entered my mind.. It's such a beautiful talent!
As for my talent build... Beast Mastery Talents
5x Improved Aspect of the Hawk
2x Focused Fire
Marksmanship Talents
5x Lethal Shots
5x Efficiency
2x Go For the Throat
1x Aimed Shot
2x Rapid Killing
5x Mortal Shots
...about .3 DPS for 1 attack power is a reasonable approximation.
This was a snippet from page 64 of this thread, talking about the benefits of AP for rogues/fury warriors.
IF this is accurate, the 110 AP from IHM is ~33 DPS. So it would theoretically be worth the hit in personal DPS, but if it's at the cost of Efficiency I would definitely insist on being grouped with a shadow priest.
Assuming, of course, that your raid HAS a shadow priest!
I am currently a Beast Mastery Specced Hunter doing very well in my raid groups. Since I am the top DPS hunter in the guild I have decided to try and bring more DPS to the raid as a whole. Even though I am aware my DPS will drop I am going to attempt to go Survival. I have talked with the melee in my typical raid setup and their theory craft tools from EJ show that 1 Survival in the raid and 1 BM in their group is optimal to 2 BM hunters in the group. Because they can bring in other buffs and include my EW. At the same time I can get the 5% crit from being with the tanks and the GoA from the shaman in their group.
So again I realize my DPS will drop. However, overall based on our typical raid setup it looks like we will have a net gain of around 600+ dps. This is much more then I appear to lose according to Cheeky's spreadsheet.
If the goal is to provide the raid a buff, the first thing you need to do is up your agility. You're about 150-200 agility below where a SV hunter should be at your content level.
As for mana issues. When i get 3-3500 mana from full, Fel Mana + Steady/Auto rotation until the fell mana is done, then resume DPS. Since you're still shooting, you may not get to full (depending on ToTH), so as the fight progresses, you'll get lower on mana before the CD on you pot is up. When I get low (<25% mana), I switch to viper while the Fel mana ticks. I also use drums of restoration if needed, since i only have 1/3 ToTH
I'd be interested to hear what you see as the advantages of that build are (relative to 0/20/41, say). Last I remember (this may be wrong, or have changed) master tactician was about on a par with Imp AotH, in terms of personal dps increase, and MT also gives you more EW procs and more GftT and TotH stuff.
If you have a deep, abiding love for Imp AotH though, that would explain it
i used to run with 0/20/41 with MTac. While there is some debate as to how IotH and Mtac compare DPS wise, I find Improved hawk + focus fire to be more worthwhile.
If the goal is to provide the raid a buff, the first thing you need to do is up your agility. You're about 150-200 agility below where a SV hunter should be at your content level.
As for mana issues. When i get 3-3500 mana from full, Fel Mana + Steady/Auto rotation until the fell mana is done, then resume DPS. Since you're still shooting, you may not get to full (depending on ToTH), so as the fight progresses, you'll get lower on mana before the CD on you pot is up. When I get low (<25% mana), I switch to viper while the Fel mana ticks. I also use drums of restoration if needed, since i only have 1/3 ToTH
I do all the same things as you. Your comment about my Agility being 150-200 below where an SV hunter should be at my content level is a bit strange to me.
1. What do you think my agility is?
My agility unbuffed is over 700.
2. Where do you think it should be?
I was under the impression from the EJ Survival thread at 600 unbuffed I am good to start the switch. I waited until 700 so I would be more of an asset.
3. I am never grouped with a SPriest they go to Healers and Mages first and we rarely run with 3. I am typically in the Tank group with the Feral druid and if I am lucky a shaman for GoA. However, last night was a lot easier to keep my mana up then as a BM hunter. Not quite sure if it's easy enough to drop Efficiency, I want to get some more attempts under my belt before going that far.
With that being said, we did Supremus and Akama last night.
On Supremus I was 6th 4 Warlocks, 1 Mage, & 1 BM Hunter were ahead of me.
On Akama I was 3rd. 1 Mage, 1 BM Hunter, & then myself.
Your comment about my Agility being 150-200 below where an SV hunter should be at my content level is a bit strange to me.
1. What do you think my agility is?
My agility unbuffed is over 700.
2. Where do you think it should be?
I was under the impression from the EJ Survival thread at 600 unbuffed I am good to start the switch. I waited until 700 so I would be more of an asset.
The usual advice is to have at least 600 Agility unbuffed without Lightning Reflexes before switching to SV. If you waited until you had 700 unbuffed before switching, then you should have at least 805 agility now.
I think the point he was making is that for BT/Hyjal, a SV hunter should have around 850-900 agility unbuffed (but inc. LR).
I am really struggling with killing my demon in Leotheras The Blind, can anyone give me some tips on what you use as a BM hunter. The MM hunter in our guild is having no trouble with scatter shot.
12/19/07, 7:13 PM
However, overall it seemed like the best choice as our overall raid damage has appeared to go up by a significant margin.
