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11/08/07, 7:19 AM
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#1
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Don Flamenco
Night Elf Hunter
Ysera (EU)
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Best possible DPS in Cheeky's Spreadsheet
As the headline says - I'm curious about what's the equipment/talent/pet/shot rotation combination where you got the highest possible DPS in Cheeky's spreadsheet and how much that would be. I am aware that this is just theorycrafting and there're lots of other conditions in "real-world raid environment" that will diminish the actual DPS to certain extends. This is merely the attempt to find the the setting with the theoretically best dps which may or may not lead to the best actual dps.
Frame conditions:
Spreadsheet Version: 46
Buffs: BoK, talented BoM, AB, talented GotW and either Flask of Relentless Assault or Elixir of Major Agility
Pet Buffs: BoK, talented BoM and talented GotW
Target Debuffs: 5xSA, CoR and FF (untalented!)
Target Level: 73 (Boss)
Target Armor: 7700
Latency: 0,2s
Macro: whatever does most DPS. 
All the other DPS relevant Data I might have forgotten should stay at the default values as they're pretty representative for typical average raid conditions already.
What I am looking for:
I am looking for your customized version of Cheekys Hunter Spreadsheet within the given above frame conditons that lead to a higher total dps than any of the following templates for Beastmastery, Marksmanship or Survival. You can either post a download link in this thread or send me the file to my e-mail adress midnight@horizon-lothar.de.
You can also use the current version of the Best-DPS spreadsheet at the link posted below and try to modify it so it results in a better dps.
BM, MM and SV templates yielding highest DPS:
BM template:
Total DPS: 2516,39
Hunter DPS: 1980,47
Pet DPS: 535,92
Crit Chance: 37,90%
Hit Chance: 99,88%
MM template:
Total DPS:
Hunter DPS:
Pet DPS:
Crit Chance:
Hit Chance:
SV template:
Total DPS:
Hunter DPS:
Pet DPS:
Crit Chance:
Hit Chance:
Where to get the customized spreadsheet:
You can download the latest version of the BestDPS spreadsheet here.
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update 29/01/2008: with the introduction of v40 the spreadsheet defaults to a lvl 70 for the target. For this thread it is assumed you're fighting a boss though which means you'll have to set it to 73!
update 30/01/2008: It's assumed that the boss is debuffed with an untalented FF now instead of the talented one.
update 04/02/2008: Updated to v42 of the spreadsheet.
update 25/03/2008: Updated to v46 of the spreadsheet and clarified some new frame conditions with 2.4.
update 11/04/2008: Changed my e-Mail address, please only use this one to send me spreadsheets from now on.
Last edited by Midnight : 04/11/08 at 6:35 AM.
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11/08/07, 10:13 AM
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#2
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Hunter
Bronzebeard (EU)
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Originally Posted by Midnight
As the headline says - I'm curious about what's the equipment/talent/pet/shot rotation combination where you got the highest possible DPS in Cheeky's spreadsheet and how much that would be.
To come as close to real raid conditions as possible I´d assume the following:
Buffs: BoK, talented BoM, AB, talented GotW and Flask of Relentless Assault
Pet Buffs: BoK, talented BoM and talented GotW
All the other DPS relevant Data like Armor, Target Debuffs etc should stay at the default values as they're pretty representative for typical average raid conditions already.
Disclaimer: I´m aware that this is just theorycrafting and there're lots of other conditions in "real-world raid environment" that will diminish the actual DPS to certain extends.
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Doesn't Cheeky's spreadsheet provide you with all the tools to work this out yourself?
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11/08/07, 10:30 AM
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#3
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Great Tiger
Night Elf Hunter
Moonglade (EU)
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Well, as I see this thread, it's a challenge for us to find the best hunter setup available, likely based on whatever we've been planning gear around.
However, let's make this as standardized as possible, so that everyone will test their specs with the same buffs and debuffs, same target type and same latency. Now, I have no idea what the default spreadsheet settings are, since i've changed them so many times... We've already established the buffs, so, if i may suggest the target debuffs, based on what i used for a few other test:
Target: Lurker Below (average armor, tank'n spank fight, so values in the spreadsheet will be close to the real thing, no real danger to pets)
Debuffs: 5x Sunder Armor, Hunter's Mark (not own), CoR and FF, since there's basically no reason not to keep them up on ol'Lurky.
Expose Weakness is kind of a touchy subject, but we're comparing hunter dps here, so my suggestion is that only the relevant specs (anything SV based, really) would get to have their own applied.
Standard latency is 0.2
I would also suggest running 2 tests, with AOTH and AOTV up, and posting two sets of results.
Shot rotations are pretty much unique to different specs, but i suppose posting results for both the 1:1 and the 1:1.x rotations is optional.
The pet should be chosen at leisure, as long as it's not a turtle or anything.
My two cents before i start plugging stuff into the spreadsheet.
EDIT: I've managed to get 1781,63 dps with AotV and 1870.54dps with AOTH with a BM spec ( WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Hunter -> Talent Calculator)
I used Orc racials, a pet cat with claw rank 9, bite rank 9 and cobra reflexes and the following gear setup:
2x [Blade of Infamy] with 20 agility enchants
[Barrel-Blade Longrifle] with [Schematic: Stabilized Eternium Scope] and 2x [Delicate Living Ruby]
[Gronnstalker's Helmet] with [Item not found!] and [Delicate Fire Ruby]+ [Relentless Earthstorm Diamond]
[Choker of Vile Intent]
[Gronnstalker's Spaulders] with [Greater Inscription of Vengeance] and [Design: Delicate Living Ruby]x2
[Shadowmoon Destroyer's Drape] with 12 agility enchant
[Gronnstalker's Chestguard] with [Delicate Living Ruby], [Wicked Pyrestone], [Dazzling Seaspray Emerald] and +6 stats enchant
[Bracers of the Pathfinder] with +24AP enchant and [Shifting Nightseye]
[Gronnstalker's Gloves] with [Delicate Living Ruby] and +15 agility enchant
[Valestalker Girdle]
[Gronnstalker's Leggings] with [Design: Delicate Living Ruby] and [Nethercobra Leg Armor]
[Quickstrider Moccasins] with Dexterity enchant, [Delicate Living Ruby]and [Wicked Pyrestone]
[Dragonspine Trophy] and [Ashtongue Talisman of Swiftness]
[Ring of Deceitful Intent] and [Band of the Eternal Champion] with both +4 stats enchants
[Timeless Shell] and [Smuggler's Ammo Pouch]
Second EDIT:
Crit chance: 30.56%
Ranged hit %: 99.39%
AOTH:
Hunter DPS: 1359.22
Pet DPS: 551.32
Total DPS: 1870.54
AOTV:
Hunter DPS: 1278.66
Pet DPS: 502.97
Total DPS: 1781.63
Last edited by Enova : 11/08/07 at 4:40 PM.
Reason: Spreadheet work complete
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Originally Posted by XI-
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
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Originally Posted by Kaubel
You people are idiots
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Guilty as charged ^
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11/08/07, 11:06 AM
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#4
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Don Flamenco
Night Elf Hunter
Ysera (EU)
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Originally Posted by Enova
Well, as I see this thread, it's a challenge for us to find the best hunter setup available, likely based on whatever we've been planning gear around.
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Exactly! Of course I´ve run a lot of diffrent setups myself, but I´m wondering if I might have overseen some really competetive combinations. Simply taking 4 parts T6 and combine them with the "best" available individual items doesn´t also have yield the best end results. An good example for this is armor penetration, that becomes more valueable the more you stack it (unless the Mob would get below 0 armor). So a single armor piercing item may be worse than your default agi/ap/crit/hit item, but in combination with enough other armor piercing items gain the edge over said default item. Question is: where do I draw the line?
However, let's make this as standardized as possible, so that everyone will test their specs with the same buffs and debuffs, same target type and same latency. Now, I have no idea what the default spreadsheet settings are, since i've changed them so many times... We've already established the buffs, so, if i may suggest the target debuffs, based on what i used for a few other test:
Target: Lurker Below (average armor, tank'n spank fight, so values in the spreadsheet will be close to the real thing, no real danger to pets)
Debuffs: 5x Sunder Armor, Hunter's Mark (not own), CoR and FF, since there's basically no reason not to keep them up on ol'Lurky.
Expose Weakness is kind of a touchy subject, but we're comparing hunter dps here, so my suggestion is that only the relevant specs (anything SV based, really) would get to have their own applied.
Standard latency is 0.2
I would also suggest running 2 tests, with AOTH and AOTV up, and posting two sets of results.
Shot rotations are pretty much unique to different specs, but i suppose posting results for both the 1:1 and the 1:1.x rotations is optional.
The pet should be chosen at leisure, as long as it's not a turtle or anything.
My two cents before i start plugging stuff into the spreadsheet.
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Your suggestion is almost default values already.
Armor default is 7700 (same as Lurker)
Latency default is 0.2
Debuffs default to Sunder x5, FF but no CoR or improved Hunter's Mark (not own).
And for the same reasons I agree that we shouldn't expect Expose Weakness I'd stick to the default setting of no Improved Hunter's Mark (not own) too.
My own best values so far have been
all default / AotH
Hunter DPS: 1352.32
Pet DPS: 449.67
Total DPS: 1801.99
with CoR / AotH
Hunter DPS: 1432.04
Pet DPS 474.92
Total DPS: 1906.96
all default / AotV
Hunter DPS: 1242.32
Pet DPS: 442.12
Total DPS: 1684.44
with CoR / AotV
Hunter DPS: 1315.52
Pet DPS: 466.95
Total DPS: 1782.47
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11/08/07, 11:14 AM
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#5
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Hunter
Lightbringer
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Interesting challenge. It may have been assumed, but to make absolutely sure:
This is includes enchants, glyphs, armor patches, etc; correct? Would adding a link to a talent spec for a given list of results be necessary, or are we assuming that we are using our own current spec?
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11/08/07, 11:16 AM
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#6
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Piston Honda
Troll Hunter
Mazrigos (EU)
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SV Spec. Can I get EW dps gain from our raid. 
Picture > 1000 words.
http://shrani.si/f/2C/qw/4TVnJfTL/survivalspec.jpg
GoA (non improved), BoM (5/5), BoK, LotP, Agi Elixir, Mageblood Elixir, Mana Oil, Warp Burger.
5x Sunder, FF, CoR, CoS, my HM, my EW
No KC (unrealistic to use in 1:1.5)
With 7700 custom target instead Rage Winterchill DPS drops to 1866.
PS. Lurker is a Beast, Trolls +5% damage... (not sure if its in spreadsheet?)
Last edited by Sapa : 11/09/07 at 12:32 PM.
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11/08/07, 11:37 AM
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#7
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Don Flamenco
Night Elf Hunter
Ysera (EU)
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Originally Posted by Jinserai
Interesting challenge. It may have been assumed, but to make absolutely sure:
This is includes enchants, glyphs, armor patches, etc; correct? Would adding a link to a talent spec for a given list of results be necessary, or are we assuming that we are using our own current spec?
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Yes of course! The whole idea is to construct the best possible gear and talent set you can think of. The only restrictions beeing outside buffs/target debuffs, latency etc to be the same so the results can be easily compared.
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11/08/07, 4:02 PM
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#9
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Don Flamenco
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Using v36 of the spreadsheet and my best attempt to match enia's list (and selecting Troll -- the race makes a difference), I get 1487.46 Hunter DPS and 467.51 Pet DPS. (I couldn't find where to select between AotH or AotV.) So this whole exercise may be pointless unless people specify each and every entry they use.
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11/08/07, 4:53 PM
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#10
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Death Knight
Outland (EU)
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What race are we using here?
With an orc I have got to a total of 1981.53 total DPS.
EDIT: Had the wrong main hand enchant, seems like your main hand enchant isn't automatically switched to +20 agility from +35 agility when you dual wield.
Last edited by Flyx : 11/08/07 at 5:31 PM.
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11/08/07, 5:15 PM
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#11
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Great Tiger
Night Elf Hunter
Moonglade (EU)
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Originally Posted by Flyx
What race are we using here?
With an orc I have got to a total of 1981.53 total DPS.
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Well, I used orc for my data, but feel free to use anything you like, as long as you let us know what it is when posting data.
Originally Posted by Cranch
Using v36 of the spreadsheet and my best attempt to match enia's list (and selecting Troll -- the race makes a difference), I get 1487.46 Hunter DPS and 467.51 Pet DPS. (I couldn't find where to select between AotH or AotV.) So this whole exercise may be pointless unless people specify each and every entry they use.
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Well, you can switch aspects in the Shot Rotations tab, somewhere on the middle left hand side of the page.
And yes, i agree, at least a link to a talent calculator would be most appreciated.
Last edited by Enova : 11/08/07 at 5:21 PM.
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Originally Posted by XI-
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
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Originally Posted by Kaubel
You people are idiots
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Guilty as charged ^
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11/08/07, 5:28 PM
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#12
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Death Knight
Outland (EU)
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Orc Racial: 1973.52 DPS
With AotH:
Hunter DPS: 1459.72
Pet DPS: 513.80
Key Values:
Hit: 99.44% (133 hit rating)
Crit: 35.27%
Armor pen.: 798
Haste: 0
Pet: Windserpent
Talents: 41/20/0
Rotation: 1:1 (multi priority)
Dagger of Bad Mojo
Major Agility (One Hand)
Dagger of Bad Mojo
Greater Agility (One Hand)
Gronnstalker's Helmet
Glyph of Ferocity
Delicate Crimson Spinel (10 Agi)
Relentless Earthstorm Diamond (12 Agi)
Choker of Endless Nightmares
Gronnstalker's Spaulders
Greater Inscription of Vengence
Smooth Lionseye (10 Crit)
Shifting Shadowsong Amethyst (5 Agi, 7 Sta)
Shadowmoon Destroyer's Drape
Greater Agility
Gronnstalker's Chestguard
Exceptional Stats
Delicate Crimson Spinel (10 Agi)
Smooth Lionseye (10 Crit)
Smooth Lionseye (10 Crit)
Insidious Warbands
Assault
Smooth Lionseye (10 Crit)
Gronnstalker's Gloves
Superior Agility
Delicate Crimson Spinel (10 Agi)
Boneweave Girdle
Bow-stitched Leggings
Nethercobra Leg Armor
Delicate Crimson Spinel (10 Agi)
Shifting Shadowsong Amethyst (5 Agi, 7 Sta)
Smooth Lionseye (10 Crit)
Shadowmaster's Boots
Dexterity
Delicate Crimson Spinel (10 Agi)
Smooth Lionseye (10 Crit)
Signet of Primal Wrath
+4 Stats
Stormrage Signet Ring
+4 Stats
Dragonspine Trophy
Madness of the Betrayer
Barrel-Blade Longrifle
Stabilized Eternium Scope
Delicate Crimson Spinel (10 Agi)
Delicate Crimson Spinel (10 Agi)
Timeless Shells
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11/09/07, 8:35 AM
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#13
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Glass Joe
Human Priest
Khaz Modan (EU)
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You have found a better setup. However, with your items, I got a total of 1977 dps so I suppose you forgot the 1:1 (multi priority) for quickshots.
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12/06/07, 9:54 AM
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#15
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Glass Joe
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Hm, I just noticed that KC contributes for more than 100DPS. I don't really believe that with a [Barrel-Blade Longrifle] it's possible to squeeze in KC without delaying the next autoshot, which I don't see accounted for in the shot rotation sheet.
I managed to pull out the following using an admittedly very weird combination of slow weapon, [Dragonspine Trophy], Beastmastery standard 41/20 build, and a 1:1.5 rotation when no haste procs are up. Frankly, I’d never use it but nevertheless:
Hunter DPS: 1484.97
Pet DPS: 502.9
Total DPS: 1987.87
Target armor:7700
Target level: 73
Pet: Windserpent, Lightning Breath only
Buffs & Debuffs (reminder):
Target: Lurker Below
Debuffs: 5x Sunder Armor, Hunter's Mark (not own), CoR and FF
Buffs: BoK, talented BoM, AB, talented GotW and Flask of Relentless Assault
Pet Buffs: BoK, talented BoM and talented GotW
Same gear as above except:
No JC-specific gems
[Gronnstalker's Spaulders] with 7sta/5crit and 5agi/7sta gems
[Shadowmoon Destroyer's Drape]
[Insidious Bands] with 5agi/5hit gem
[Don Alejandro's Money Belt] with 2x10agi gems
[Madness of the Betrayer]
[Dragonspine Trophy]
[Bristleblitz Striker]
Last edited by LanceLink : 12/06/07 at 10:40 AM.
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12/06/07, 4:17 PM
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#16
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Glass Joe
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To best model what we're doing, we should be using standardized raid buffs no? Should we use the most optimal buffs and mob debuffs possible, or just normal buffs? Are we all using the same target? Are we looking for the top dps we can manage with the perfect group?
If we all are using different buffs and mob debuffs, there could be quite a few discrepancies. I think setting up standard buffs and debuffs, setting a target, and limiting gems to non unique/JC only items, and ruling out ring enchants ( I rarely see a hunter enchanter anyway, but thats just me) would provide us better results.
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12/14/07, 1:04 PM
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#17
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Free Arrows For Life
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Last edited by Kamaa : 12/17/07 at 2:44 PM.
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12/17/07, 1:32 PM
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#19
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Free Arrows For Life
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It is worth mentioning that with [Black Bow of the Betrayer] and [Dragonspine Trophy] instead of [Berserker's Call] you only drop a total of 10 theoretical DPS and will likely gain much more actual DPS due to the nature of end game fights and the ammount of movement called for. You do have to use a 1:1.5 shot rotation when not under haste effects.
Last edited by Kamaa : 12/17/07 at 2:47 PM.
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12/17/07, 1:49 PM
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#20
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Free Arrows For Life
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Originally Posted by Hunterlin
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I suspect you made a mistake somewhere on your spreadsheet. You're likely giving yourself a buff or the mob a debuff outside the parameters of the testing.
With the changes you suggested I got:
Total DPS: 1956.43
Hit Rating: 157
Some obvious wasted stats and therefore unlikely to be accurate. It's also worth mentioning that [Shifting Shadowsong Amethyst] is more DPS than your suggested [Infused Shadowsong Amethyst].
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12/17/07, 2:23 PM
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#21
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Von Kaiser
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Why a flask when you get better dps results from an agi potion?
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12/17/07, 2:36 PM
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#22
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Free Arrows For Life
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Originally Posted by Ruind
Why a flask when you get better dps results from an agi potion?
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Those are merely the parameters set by the original poster. Unless a BM or SV hunter is able to be the best DPS due to the elixir, it really makes no difference other than a slightly bigger number to stroke our intelluctual prowess. I do agree that the elixir is better, but that's not what this thread is about and I have no desire to derail the thread.
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12/17/07, 9:02 PM
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#23
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Von Kaiser
Dwarf Hunter
Draenor (EU)
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deleted
Last edited by Hunterlin : 12/17/07 at 9:06 PM.
Reason: I just want to take back message typed without enough thought.
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12/19/07, 1:32 PM
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#24
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Free Arrows For Life
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12/19/07, 3:34 PM
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#25
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Piston Honda
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Wouldn't this idea be more viable within the mail paramaters? Or are we just assuming the loot is magically going to come to you. Even if, could a listing of mail based max dps be shown? And I assume this is only using BM as it is the highest personal dps spec.
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