Hello, in your calculation you missed Imp Hunter Mark. That´s another 110 AP for entire meele squad.
Actually it´s more like 155 AP unless you´re still using the lvl 60 version of AotH.
Anyway seeing as the legendary Bow will most likely have a diffrent weapon speed as it is in the current version of the spreadsheet and also a few other best-in-slot items dropping from KJ still missing I´ll wait for v50 before I do my next update to the thread.
I've noticed that Cheekys sheet has yet to implement [Fel Sharpening Stone], which works on ranged weapons. I think if we want to get higher/highest DPS results we need to get this add to the formula. I believe it only adds to auto shot damage, but since roughly 50% of my shot damage is Auto DW and stacking those buffs might be a significant boost.
I've noticed that Cheekys sheet has yet to implement [Fel Sharpening Stone], which works on ranged weapons. I think if we want to get higher/highest DPS results we need to get this add to the formula. I believe it only adds to auto shot damage, but since roughly 50% of my shot damage is Auto DW and stacking those buffs might be a significant boost.
i was not aware of this, so applying the [Fel Sharpening Stone] to your melee wep and it will work with your ranged attacks?
Things work roughly like this for hunters. It sometimes changes based on hit/haste cap, but this will give you a pretty good understanding of why hunters want your leather pieces, which are the best in socket.
1 Haste > 1 Hit > 1 Agility > 1 Crit ~= 2 AP ~= 7 Armor Pen
This can also be affected by the amount of armor pen they already have. Stacking armor pen is huge.
In the future, if you have any other questions, you may be better off directing them to the hunter help thread, this thread is not really designed for answering questions.
I wouldn't say that haste is a very stable dps stat. It is so much depending on your current speed, trinket choice (dst) and group buffs (bloodlust, haste drums).
The haste cap is roughly at 1,65 / 1,7 weapon speed. That's why I can't imagine that felspine is superior to double shiv.
I wouldn't say that haste is a very stable dps stat. It is so much depending on your current speed, trinket choice (dst) and group buffs (bloodlust, haste drums).
The haste cap is roughly at 1,65 / 1,7 weapon speed. That's why I can't imagine that felspine is superior to double shiv.
Using a 3.00 bow, with a 2.14 base speed, the reset time of a 1:1.5 macro, what is it? Unhasted of course, but I've some doubts about this.
Haste has a variable effect depending on your cycle and your current attack speed. On a 2:3 cycle, with a 3.0 weapon and no haste, a small haste value will have a good return. As soon as you start adding more haste, you'll see its value drop, because the 2:3 cycle doesn't scale well with haste. On a 1:1 cycle, it scales very well with both 3.0 and 2.8 weapon. In both cases, haste will cap at some point.
I don't think that haste items are bad for finding the perfect gear. You must just avoid putting too much haste for the cycle you use. So Felspine might be a good choice -if- you don't have too many other haste items.
Shoulders Mantle of the Golden Forest
Enchant Greater Inscription of Vengeance
Red Socket 1 Delicate Crimson Spinel (10 Agi)
Red Socket 2 Delicate Crimson Spinel (10 Agi)
Socket Bonus Achieved
Back Shadowmoon Destroyer's Drape
Enchant Greater Agility
Socket Bonus Achieved
I can't help but think you would get higher dps by switching in GS shoulders for Mantle of the Golden Forest and having your 4 pc bonus. Might wanna try that out and see what you get instead.
obviously its only that high cause no1 else made an attempt after the change of bow speed. No 4pc bonus, using Starstalker over Immortal Night seems very strange and also 2x Shiv would usually wip off Felspine given the 2 Coatings vs 1. Just my thoughts
DPS coating buffs don't stack, they simply increase the uptime slightly.
Do you have anything to support this? I was under the impression the proc can only occur once, and has the same internal cooldown, thus dual coating is not even slightly better than single. Assuming you're referring to Righteous Weapon Coating (which is I believe irrelevant for this discussion). As mentioned earlier sharpening stones would be the way to go, for a universal DPS increase.
He was simply stating the 2x sharp stones would increase the proc rate "slightly" due to the fact that it has 2x the proc rate but the same internal cd. The general set would be 1x sharp stone 1x weapon coating.
I know for a fact i could boost the dps of this with a 100% gaurantee. The neck is a JC pattern. and if the user is a JC then you could replace a 10 crit gem with a 12 crit gem, resulting in higher dps. even if its slight i just improved this gear set. In reference to the last listed Gear/set
I wouldn't say that haste is a very stable dps stat. It is so much depending on your current speed, trinket choice (dst) and group buffs (bloodlust, haste drums).
The haste cap is roughly at 1,65 / 1,7 weapon speed. That's why I can't imagine that felspine is superior to double shiv.
I have been fortunate enough to pick up 2 shivs during the last couple of weeks (since noone else wanted them) for a very low dkp value. Now, im normally survival running with 108 passive haste rating (clutch, felspine, fiends), but due to the nature of the m'uru encounter i am always running as beastmaster on that one.
So i enchanted the two shivs and took them for a spin. Stat wise (the most important parts) the scenarios look as following:
I was especially excited about trying this out due to the enormous amount of armor ignore and the bonus of 2 mana oils versus just one.
However, after the first trash clear expired (we haven't killed m'uru yet unfortunately, best is 88% p2) i decided to revert to the felspine setup. Nothing else changed (to my knowledge). And i must admit i was disappointed to see that my dps went up in the more haste less armor ignore setup by 50-150dps on average.
I have a nagging feeling that this is primarily due to the 2.04 draw speed being vastly superior for a stable 3:2 rotation over the 2.1 draw speed. Ok, theres many variables, one being my latency (40-160ish) but i must admit that i had thought that any negative effects from the less passive haste would have been evened out by the much higher armor ignore. Also taking into consideration the 108 haste rating sometimes being too much (rapid+quick, drums+quick).
Last tidbit: As i'm normally survival my hitrating is aimed towards this. However, instead of agility food on m'uru i tend to use hit food ending at 110 hit rating. Results seem consistent on the tries having no misses or very few (mixed add and muru dps).
Heres the log for that night (a few tries in the start missing): WWS
I think i was using the shivs try 1-14 (1500-1600dps) and felspine 15-27 (1550-1800dps).
If your weapon choices hold true for these attempts then i would say that your felspine was overall more efficent. This would be attributed to simply tightening your 3:2 rotation as your closer to the ideal AS. Passive haste also frees up most of your dps lost from a latency issue.
On the topic of armor ignore, i believe that with the proper gear set, Shiv's would beat out the spine in the long run, but it would need comparative gear (gear with haste to free up the faste lost from the spine) Keeping in mind that armor ignore works better with the more you have. So just because those a lower dps currently, doesnt mean that with more gear that is aimed at more AI that it couldnt be better in the long run.
My feelings on the topic would be to stick to your spine, as it seems to do you the best in terms of returned dps. Hold onto the shivs as they will probably be better with later gear. WWS is always the best way to get raw data for any questions you have, Each time you get new gear that might change the situation haste wise or with AI run WWS and see if there was a difference. Most gear sets will vary from hunter to hunter as with latency some should be gearing for passive haste to boost dps, and those with low latency can free up the haste for AI/Crit. Its very situational from what i can tell.
but due to the nature of the m'uru encounter i am always running as beastmaster on that one.
Why would you be BM for M'uru? I started out as BM on M'uru very early but I went back to being survival and nothing changed at all dps wise on the humanoids. Also, EW is going to help you out tremendously in phase2 since you have a melee group and it truly is a massive dps burn. Wrong place for the post prolly but whatever just wondering.
Im guessing he means as more of a main role in the DPS burn rather then being a support spec (respectively) Honestly your playstyle generally merits your best spec. Maybe for Ond it is BM in a DPS perspective.
If your weapon choices hold true for these attempts then i would say that your felspine was overall more efficent. This would be attributed to simply tightening your 3:2 rotation as your closer to the ideal AS. Passive haste also frees up most of your dps lost from a latency issue.
On the topic of armor ignore, i believe that with the proper gear set, Shiv's would beat out the spine in the long run, but it would need comparative gear (gear with haste to free up the faste lost from the spine) Keeping in mind that armor ignore works better with the more you have. So just because those a lower dps currently, doesnt mean that with more gear that is aimed at more AI that it couldnt be better in the long run.
My feelings on the topic would be to stick to your spine, as it seems to do you the best in terms of returned dps. Hold onto the shivs as they will probably be better with later gear. WWS is always the best way to get raw data for any questions you have, Each time you get new gear that might change the situation haste wise or with AI run WWS and see if there was a difference. Most gear sets will vary from hunter to hunter as with latency some should be gearing for passive haste to boost dps, and those with low latency can free up the haste for AI/Crit. Its very situational from what i can tell.
I agree. Getting [Dragonspine Trophy] or [Blackened Naaru Sliver] at some point will probably solve this. My main surprise was the very noticable diffence in dps with just the 0.06 draw speed difference, which i felt was worthy to post about.
Originally Posted by qu-
Why would you be BM for M'uru? I started out as BM on M'uru very early but I went back to being survival and nothing changed at all dps wise on the humanoids. Also, EW is going to help you out tremendously in phase2 since you have a melee group and it truly is a massive dps burn. Wrong place for the post prolly but whatever just wondering.
Well, different guilds, different ways of dealing with adds. For us we don't chain stun the fury mages and go all out on them on my side. Going as survival with this approach i can only deal around 1250dps to the adds before being horribly threat capped, whereas i can deal 1500-1800 (as you can see on the wws) as bm. I can always switch between adds and m'uru, but in my usual survival setup threat is such a large issue that i would have to switch to often that i would go crazy
It's a shame really, indeed because of the tremendous value of EW in phase 2. Currently i do not have a solution to this with our usual setups.
I agree. Getting [Dragonspine Trophy] or [Blackened Naaru Sliver] at some point will probably solve this. My main surprise was the very noticable diffence in dps with just the 0.06 draw speed difference, which i felt was worthy to post about.
Well, different guilds, different ways of dealing with adds. For us we don't chain stun the fury mages and go all out on them on my side. Going as survival with this approach i can only deal around 1250dps to the adds before being horribly threat capped, whereas i can deal 1500-1800 (as you can see on the wws) as bm. I can always switch between adds and m'uru, but in my usual survival setup threat is such a large issue that i would have to switch to often that i would go crazy
It's a shame really, indeed because of the tremendous value of EW in phase 2. Currently i do not have a solution to this with our usual setups.
I think the [Blackened Naaru Sliver] will generally do you better, at thats seemingly makes up for the haste you lost from not using the felspine. You also gain a pretty handy use out of the trinket itself so its not messing with your rotation. And it allows you to use your double shiv which i think combined with the Naaru Sliver will turn out to be a higher dps then the spine and w/e your current trinket may be.
I think the [Blackened Naaru Sliver] will generally do you better, at thats seemingly makes up for the haste you lost from not using the felspine. You also gain a pretty handy use out of the trinket itself so its not messing with your rotation. And it allows you to use your double shiv which i think combined with the Naaru Sliver will turn out to be a higher dps then the spine and w/e your current trinket may be.
I have a hunch owning and using both sliver and dragonspine will be the best long term setup for me as survival. The sliver to exchange the felspine with the shivs, and the dragonspine to much more frequently drop down into 3:2 / 1:1 rotations depending on collective haste effects at any point.
Normally i use the ashtongue trinket for the deadly aim buff (which procs pretty darn often with pure auto/steady rotations). Since the sliver has a similar effect, the loss of the ashtongue trinket would be negated by this.
05/26/08, 6:32 AM
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