- double post

Well, my experiemnt with MM has come to an end. With pretty decent gear, my hope was that the supposed gap with BM inr aids would close a bit.

Did Rage this week, which assuming you do not get stuck in the AOE every 10 seconds is a great dps check. The fight went well, I was never bolted and only had to move once.

DPS came in at about 1150. That is over 300 DPS off of what I can pull as BM on that fight, so back to the trainer I go. Too bad - maybe Blizzard will eventually fix MM and make it a viable raid spec again.

Sorry to hear about the disappointment and downgrade for you Berkut. If you dont mind, would u please post what your stats were/are as MM, including how much haste your running? If at all possible there might be a mix-up in your itemization as there are some differences in the gearing of MM and BM that might of been overlooked previously.

Thanks for the reply Krax. no i don't use aimed shot haha. Only times I'll use it are in conjunction with a misdirect or at the start of a rapid fire+trinket pop. And yes, I keep my pet out all the time. My pet's a raptor from blade's edge. I know his claw isn't the highest level I don't know how much dps extra attacks really offer that might be something to look into. In terms of rotation I usually do a steady arcane auto steady auto repeat with multi-shot put in when the mob allows for it. one of my hunter friends has me trying out using a macro for my rotation instead of doing it myself. I was thinking the same about getting rid of a point from the imp arcane shot and moving it to somewhere else.

one thing i forgot to mention was on the mag fight I was on cube duty but I don't think thats a big enough excuse for the low numbers.

Hmmm, off the top of my head, I don't really remember all my stats - I know before raid buffs I was around 2500 RAP, 28% crit as MM. Very little haste - maybe 40 or so.

Hmm, your RAP and Crit are optimal for MM, as for the haste I doubt 40 haste would have that kind of detrimental affect on your dps. The only remaining thing that comes to mind is a possible issue with spec. This is interesting, to me at least, becuase I only typically see a 100-200 dps difference between me (MM) and our BM hunter, with vary'ing results due to encounter of course.

Sorry if I missed an earlier post where you explained this, and I don't mean to be insulting, but are you sure you were doing your rotations correctly? I know that after being a macro spamming BM for just a few months my MM rotations were noticeably sloppier when I went MM on PTR, and if you've never done the manual 1:1.5 thing before it's likely to take a bit of time to get the hang of it (especially adjusting it on the fly to haste procs/movement). Something definitely seems wrong since I'm fairly sure I used to do around 1100 DPS as MM on Rage with far, far worse gear than you have.

I'd be a bit more forgiving of items with Int on them thanks to Careful Aim, but that's about it. Not like it really makes a difference for current choices, but it did at T4 gearing levels (e.g. DS helm being comparable as MM to the leather one off netherspite if you didn't need all the +hit). And depending on what your current gloves are, S3 gloves can be an upgrade as MM but not as BM (mmm akama with imp barrage and s3 gloves).

I guess it is possible that my rotation was off - I used a macro someone posted in some EJ thread somewhere, basic Auto-Steady-Arcane-repeat type thing, IIRC. I had the Arcane Shot talent as well.

I was curious as to which rotation a lot of you 4xT6 marksman hunters are using. Currently there is considerable debate on the survival forums as to whether a 2:1 (steady, steady, auto) rotation is superior to a 1:1.5 rotation. Since marksman and survival hunters deal with the same issues with regards to weapon speeds I was wondering if any marksman hunter have managed to compare the two rotations in combat themselves.

Given that being MM and not using Multishot on cooldown is fairly pointless, I'm guessing not many have used steady,steady,auto. Similarity between the two specs' rotations pretty much ends with the speed being the same.

edit: or are you asking about doing a rotation like:

steady-arcane-auto,steady-multi-auto,steady-steady-auto?

That would be 2:1, but you end up with a fair bit of clipping on the last steady shot because of the delay in starting the one before it. But yes, it would be interesting to see if anyone has had success with it.

Well if the macro didn't multishot that's your problem right there, but I'm guessing it probably did.

Before you spec back you should give a try to doing the rotation manually, it's really not that hard to get used to if you have decent framerates, and your results will likely be better than a macro can manage.

Basically:
- If hasted, wait for your character to start firing an arrow, and spam your steadyshot button.
- Once steady shot is casting, spam your multishot or arcane shot button (whichever is off cooldown).
- Repeat, unless hasted or your next autoshot will be firing soon enough that you'd clip it badly with a steadyshot. If hasted, decide what, if anything, you should fire (I'd toss in a silencing shot every now and then, or just clip a bit with a steady).

I need some serious help.

I was told at one point that AP > all for MM hunters. So..I started gemming like that, only to see that well, that's not really the case. My gems are all over the place now, from crit, to hit rating, agi and AP. No one else in my guild is MM, and they don't really seem to want a MM hunter anymore. I enjoying raiding, and would like to continue to do so without speccing BM

I guess just help me out if ya have the time. I know my shot rotation is fine, I fixed that when I started raiding I mostly just wanted some gem ideas and maybe if I should spec to a more hybrid build or not.

My Armory Profile

Thank you.
(my other trinket is a Bloodlust Brooch btw)

When i try MM vs BM on fights where the pet will not an any issues of dying the DPS difference is 300-400 DPS. In good melee groups a BM hunter will easily out dps a MM pet but 200 or even 300 DPS. The problem is with BM everything works so well together 4- piece T6 bonus, BT trinket, 3:2 rotation and haste, NOTHING in MM can compare to BM synergy with all those factors. My best rage as a BM was 1869 and as a MM it was in the 1400's. Well 400 dps isnt that big a deal on farm content but on Brut 1400 your not pulling you weight but 1869 you are barely pulling your weight. Something needs to change for MM because i sorely miss being MM but i cnat afford to be missing 400 dps.

Well, MM do put out considerably less DPS than BM, so just perhaps the cubeduty was what dragged you down.
Do get the last rank of Claw, the combination of your pet lacking focus and having downranked specials do end up costing you a fair bit of DPS. Not as much as changing the gun will do of course, but with you it seems to be a number of smaller issues put together.

As to the rotation I can't help you much. I only know the theory behind the 1.5:1 not how you adapt it to a less optimal situation.
Regarding using a macro... well, I don't know. Not that I don't use one myself, but if you do, you slave yourself to that. Meaning when a Shaman pops Bloodlust you are still trying to mash out a 1.5:1 rotation when a 1:1 would be better (same applies to Rapid Fire). If you do get it, make sure you have a normal Steady Shot button within easy reach for the hasted periods.

In reply to Berkut, I sympathize but I think you may be able to shore up those numbers. On static fights where I don't have to do any movement and have no CC to worry about, I generally only trail behind the BM's by about 100ish DPS. On a pet unfriendly fight like Azgalor, I can usually top or hedge into top 3 on the meter if I have a good group composition re: Shadow Priest/optimal buffs >.> Consider that I also run with about 200-250ish latency when raiding. The shot rotation is huge for MM success - I know BM runs a tight rotation, but I would argue that MM has the harder rotation to pin down and flex between 1:1 and 1:1.5 with various hasting effects [rapid fire/bloodlust, etc] - and I know our BM hunters are no slouch [Tsook, etc are all insanely efficient on the meters]

You might be able to see a better DPS push if you do some Boom practicing and see if you can tighten your rotation - w/o being in your raid though, I'm not sure what other factors you were up against. If it's a simple test to see how close you can bring MM to BM, anyone raiding MM has to accept short of a massively pet unfriendly fight or completely CC free environment, we're always going to trail behind BM - and even in those aforementioned circumstances, you'll probably still be slightly behind the BM spec.

I enjoy the challenge though - I do hope for some love to the MM raiding side [TSA love come on!] w/o seeing nerfs to what makes BM/Surv excel at raiding.

Just a quick question: I should be reverting to 1:1 when IAotH or Rapid Fire are going, as MM, right?

Yes - that's what I've done and seen recommended.

Hey guys, I'd like to ask a question, one that could be prefaced with "Help me please." I think I will ask it here, rather than in the thread called "[Hunter] Help me please"

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t15179-h...elp_me_please/

I'm in need of help about atk speed and MM 1:1.5 rotation. Currently I have 3 pieces of gear with haste adding up to 97haste bringing my sunfury's atk speed to 2.38. I will also be upgrading my kara cloak the cloak of fiends whenever it decides to drop which would put me 123haste. I'm wondering at what point will I no longer be able to effectively do a 1:1.5 rotaion due to clipping? Also if 1:1.5 is no longer viable should i look into doing a 1:1 auto, steady, auto, multi, auto, arcane repeat type of rotation?

The most important part of playing MM:

Ignore the loudmouths who insist you're an idiot for playing it, and just enjoy the game.

That said, thanks again for posting this, Howitzer.

I don't know why anyone would raid as marks honestly. It's a selfish spec and a selfish build because you bring nothing to your group.

If you're gonna raid, then raid right and do the best possible DPS you can. Marks is the pvp build now, get with the times.

The same logic as to why one brings rogues, as they don't buff their groups, perhaps? But this isn't the Blizzard forums, let's leave the flames there, what say?