And the rogues spec combat, because that does the most damage. They dont spec Shadowstep for raiding, because the PvE damage is terrible.

Just like hunters dont spec Marksmanship for raiding.

... Did you even read the original post? I'd like to think here at least we don't make knee-jerk statements that ignore the entire thread.

Think Intermission was just responding to the dumb post about why people bring rogues to raids, not to the whole thread.

About as dumb as the person who flung the usual crap about "selfish spec", clearly without reading the thread? I thought I'd try putting up a counter-example just as ridiculous.

Well that post was by someone else, and I don't think Intermission was agreeing with him at all - he was replying to your post. Your post was saying someone raiding MM in spite of lack of group buffs is comparable to bring rogues to DPS in spite of group buffs. That's a very faulty analogy, since:

a) rogues brought along in spite of the lack of buffs still tend to increase raid DPS, MM hunters tend to lower it. This argument and the posts around it are irrelevant to this thread.

b) rogues, just like hunters usually spec for raids while raiding, not for fun. This is relevant to the thread, and what Intermission said, although it's probably not worth mentioning since I'm sure most people in the thread have been aware of it since page 1.

I've been reading through this thread and am sorry if I missed the answer to the question I am about to pose.

I'm a MM specced hunter, is there a shot rotation for 2v2 arena? I have toyed with the 1:1.5 rotation, since it has worked out to be the fastest rotation, but find more often then not that a rotation cycle can't be completed properly do to the CC/dps/silence shots that need to be pumped out.

AS a lifelong MM Hunter (80 days or so of playtime) I am concerned with my DPS output and what I should be doing to achieve maximum output. I use a spec I have not seen in hours of reading this and other forums . . . 5/53/3. My armory link is The World of Warcraft Armory. I will be upgrading to the badge gear chicken crossbow today (6 badges to go!). It is not shown on the current amory page but I switch between the legacy and the S3 2H axe. . . . .

I typically use a simple Auto/Steady/Auto +KC macro (though I am experimenting with others thanks to the posts here at EJ), and often start my rotation with an Aimed Shot - it gives the MT time to gain aggro and allows me to "open up" quickly afterwards.

I have been focusing mainly on AP stats as my crit was getting too high (is that possible?). We are currently screaming through Kara, bending Gruul and Mag over, and progessing into TK, SSC et. al. My spot as the new huntard in the guild is not a guaranteed spot in the latter . . . .

So here comes my noob question . . . . . Aside from speccing BM or SV what should I be doing now to maximize my output?

Note: WoW is my first MMORPG and I am still (and always) learning. My skills are not great, but far from terrible. Gear ftw. hahaha

I have been raiding for 2 years now with my hunter and since I started him I have been MM. I have only changed his spec one time and that was to move points over into Surv for the improved traps for assisting our raids. In no raid have I ever got the feeling I wasn't putting out enough dps. We aren't progressed enough to be into BT and Hyjal yet, but I have been in raids on SSC and Mags and have been one of the top dps in the raids. I understand that alot of people say we bring nothing to the raid being a MM hunter. Lets be honest I bought this game to have fun and to be able to raid with friends as alot of us did. I know that if I was in one of the major end game guilds I would never be happy because their objective is massive conquering. Let each be to his own, if they want to be MM help them to maximize that spec instead of constantly giving them grief.

The World of Warcraft Armory

this is the current build i use mainly because of helping out on kara runs with traps, its soon to be modified to remove the improved traps which I honestly rarely use any more.

while it may not be the best build it has been a great build for me and I have put out a great amount of DPS with it, one of the top in all of our raids.

I play this game to have fun, and to be commanded to change a spec that I know front to back to a spec I would have to learn all over again and more than likely not enjoy is a little more then I could handle. Let everyone play with the spec they want if they are willing to respec and relearn then go ahead, but if they enjoy the spec they have let it be. I have respec many players for raids my warr from fury to prot, druid from feral to resto but my hunter isn't one that i will be respec'ing.

Iam raiding T5 and T6 Content and I think i have a better Spec for Raiding as a MM.
This is the Spec 7/45/9 -> Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I think the Improved Arcane Shot isn't so important. I use this rotation which is very simple:

Aimed Shot -> Multi-Shot -> Auto Shot -> Arcane Shot -> Auto Shot -> Steady Shot Rotation...
When Multi Shot is ready again the Arcane Shot is ready again, too. So you can continue the rotation like this one:

Steady Shot Rotation -> Multi Shot -> Auto Shot -> Arcane Shot -> Auto Shot -> Steady Shot Rotation -> Multi Shot... and so on.

But if you have used Feign Death begin the first rotation with an Aimed Shot. You can also make this if the Boss make an aggro wipe.
Between beginning of each rotation shoot a serpent sting and hold the dot on your target.

So that are my tips to a Marksmanship Hunter.

That is a good build and somewhat at what I was looking to go to, except for the monsterslaying. Not sure that would help on raids as much as moving those 3 points somewhere else. Then again I could be wrong I have never used any points there. If so please correct me the more info the better.

The talent points on Monster Slaying are very good to push the damage because if you are now in the T5 Content or you will go to the Content next time you will see that these 3 points are important.
I play Marksmanship since release of WoW. The talents in Monster Slaying have pushed my damage enomously.

Try your new talent tree and then try my version of the talent tree. I want to see the results from you.

@Bruizer Your Weapons aren't very good because they has no stats. Try to get the Axe from the time loot reward 2 in Zul'Aman or try to get the Axe of the Theatre Event. If you have an Arena Team get the Axe from Season 3.
Mostly 2 Hand-Weapons are better than 2 One-Hand Weapons.

I cant imagine how this would possibly be true.
Your weapons:
77 attack power
62 crit

Legacy (assuming +35 agility enchant):
155ap
41crit
8mp5

21 extra crit is just barely over +.5% crit chance

I actually got legacy after what I have now and I never put +35 agility on it yet, I will most definitly get it enchanted and give it a try. With the numbers you have provided you are both correct it should give me a boost. Also I moved points over into Focused Fire in Beast talent tree and noticed a nice boost in dps. I was averaging 850 dps last night with the new spec I was gaining between 865-875 dps. The World of Warcraft Armory this is my new spec. Aimed Shot -> Multi-Shot -> Auto Shot -> Arcane Shot -> Auto Shot -> Steady Shot Rotation like posted by Eisenberg was being used and I came out top dps out of a very well geared group of BM hunters. Does this dps sound like a good number or am I still low? Would someone be so kind as to post the formula for figuring attack power boost from agility.
Also a macro for the aforementioned shot rotation, how much can you gain from using a macro for your shot rotation? I am trying to put out as much dps as possible from my hunter, but I have honestly never used a macro I have always been a hot key button pusher.

Using a Macro in a special shot rotation like this isn't good.

But i can give you a tip what you can try. I show you now my first Action:

1 Arcane Shot
2 Auto Shot
3 Mark of the Hunter
4 Serpent Sting
5 Aggro Shot (When you're kiting later in Battle of Mount Hyjal)
6 Concurssive Shot
7 Multi-Shot
8 Scorpid Sting
9 Aimed Shot
0 Scatter Shot
ß Viper Sting
´ Steady Shot

I use my left hand for the numbers 1 to 9 and with my mouse i cast the three last skills. In the second action bar are my trinkets, special abilities (rapid fire, misdirection) and traps. I cast them with my mouse, too. If you hold your Cooldown on you Trinket up you might make more DPS so if the tank has the aggro of the first target begin the rotation i told you. In that way you can make more DPS. If your aggro is 1% over the tank use feign death because you need it earlier than you think.

Reading the original post would probably convince someone more than ever that MM is not raid worthy. For example, note that the author brings up the HORRORS of having to respec for raids and suggests speccing in such a way as to preserve PVP viability in a raid spec. Putting the thread author into Cheeky's Spreadsheet, I get 1938 DPS. If I switch his spec to BM and a 1:1 shot rotation, the spreadsheet spits out 2096 DPS. 158 personal DPS with just a respec. That's about the same size as the difference between hemo rogue and combat rogue. Hemo is regarded as a gimp build unworthy of a raid slot.

The worst part? This is STILL the only thread where the original parent post actually explains how to play a hunter. Someone really needs to just sit down and write a "how hunters shot" post - preferably with a solid condemnation of MM builds.

Hello Howitzer, I guess I am one of those apples that fell a little farther from the tree. I appreciate your post and the addec insights it has provided around the MM spec for raiding. I am running a spec that is very close to your 7/48/6. I often wonder if there are some minor changes I could make in my talent selections to improve my play.

So my questions are:
1. What is the value of the Hawk Eye talent? I sometimes wonder if those 3 talent points would be better spent elsewhere. I like the added range, but... what do you and others think. I notice you included it in the 7/48/6 build you propose.

2. Imp Hunter's Mark, does this bring some value to the rest of the raid? I have kept 5 talent points in Imp Hunter's Mark thinking it provides value to the melee classes in the raid. You don't include this in your 7/48/6 build. Again what do you and others think in regards to this talent?

3. I noticed that in many of the posts in this thread that people are saying their crit is in the high 20's. I have for some time now worked to keep my crit% over 30. My hit has been capped for some time and all my gear choices depend on keeping it capped. I am working to increase my AP (currently 2025) but am leary to decrease crit to get more AP. I currently have gear in my bank that would get me to 2150 AP but drop my crit to 28%. I tested that gear set up during our daily heroic SP farm and seemed to not do as much damage reletave to the group I run with regularly for that. I don't have hard numbers to support this. I am hoping there is already some math out there that supports how much crit and how much AP an MM should have and at what balance. If there is I would love to hear more.

I have learned a lot from this thread and will be incorporating those learnings into my game play.

Hey guys,

I am soooo glad I found this site! Finally a place where us MM hunters can get together and work out our issues and get info.

I thought I knew how to play a hunter until I was recommended here by some people. Now I think I was one of those huntards....lol

I tried out the 3:2 shot rotations and it "felt" better, but that was on daily mobs until I heard about our dear friend Dr Boom. (auto-steady-auto-steady-arcane-auto-steady-auto-steady-multishot-rinse/repeat) BTW, manually hitting the buttons resulted in a higher DPS for me than a macro did, and I have 500ms lag due to my location.

Anyway, I respecced to this Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (0/36/25) because I felt that raw AP was better than AGI, expecially since my crit is already over 30.

Here is my armory page http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...cle&n=Kathanae

In summary, my guild wasn't raiding too much, so I did a lot of PvP if you can't tell. But in a nutshell, I am in full S1 with all Vindicator, the Gladiator x-bow and the Vengeful Gladiator War Axe. I have some BS trinkets and rings, but they are all I have right now.

My stats
AGI 526
RAP 1859
Hit 83 (I have 3/3 KI)
Crit 30.47

I was able to DPS Dr Boom at 860 DPS without my pet attacking.

Here is the question now that I have provided the back ground:

Now that my guild is back to running Kara (not ready for higher), I plan on replacing my trinkets and rings with the + hit gear so that I can replace my gems with AP and Crit. Is that a viable plan, or should I try another plan?

Basically, the way I see it, I am only 7 pts from being hitcapped with Killer Instinct maxed, so I should replace my +hit gems with + AP and + Crit. I know I need the higher AP, and critting more often has to be good, right?

Also, am I where I should be with the gear I have?

Thanks in advance, all of you guys are a lot of help.

Take a look at the gear available to you that will enable you to get your auto-shot down to 1.8s and look at your other stats with that gear. Then take a look at a set of gear from the same content where you don't emphasize haste.

From what I've seen the difference in the non-haste stats on those two sets of gear will be significant enough that stacking that much haste is not worth it.

I am current speced 17/44/0 and I would loved comments on my WWS Brutallus WWS I believe i would be around 2300 dps if my pet hadn't somehow gotten 31 parrys.

For MM, you dont want to push Haste soo much, you should infact actually be pushing ArP and Attack Power.

Before I changed over to BM, as MM i was running 3001 AP raid buffed, 33% crit, and roughly 512 ArP. However, as fun as MM is I too must confess that BM is the way to go for pushing the envelope for raid damage and thus truly earning yourself a raid slot.

I think its a great result and shows that MM is possible to be utilised as a raid spec well.

However, in brutal honesty, I can't help but wonder if you would have topped DPS for that fight should you have been BM spec.

Hey guys,

No one really answered my original question, but I have started to replace gear with + hit gear and I am seeing a noticable difference.

I was a fill in for Gruul's Lair yesterday and as a MM Hunter I was 4th o the damage meter with a BM hunter not even in the top 10. I was doing 950-980 DPS (Iwas higher with the King than I was with Gruul, had to keep moving because of the shatters). I applied everything I have learned reading this forum and it all works great.

Thanks for all of the info you guys are putting out there, when you listen and use it, it works.

One question tho: I am CC situation, what shot do you use to replace Multi-Shot with in your shot rotations?

Thanks again,
Tony