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Old 09/18/08, 4:14 AM   #2651
Steelfleece
Soda Popinski
 
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Goblin Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Chul View Post
Auto Shoot isn't a ranged ability? We can drag it to our bars...

I just think they reworded the talent and beta hunters just want something to whinge about due to the other changes.
Well, it is debatable. On the one hand, it doesn't say "special" abilities, but I don't see why they'd need to reword it as it was worded fine before. However, recently our "Auto Shot" was changed to "ranged shot" in the combat log, so I don't know if it's considered an ability or not. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

After all, ranged weapon specialization retains a similar description to what Mortal Shots used to read.

Last edited by Steelfleece : 09/18/08 at 4:20 AM.

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Old 09/18/08, 5:50 AM   #2652
Steelfleece
Soda Popinski
 
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Goblin Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
I'm still trying to take note of all the changes. Quite a few changes have been made for pets.

Many, many pet abilities and talents have been moved from a "cooldown" to a "global cooldown," which seems to mean they won't be affected by Longevity...I don't know why this would happen, but it seems to be the case. Certainly makes the talent a lot more lackluster.

Spider's Bite changed from +30% critical damage to +9% critical strike chance. The new arrangement of the Cunning Tree is solid, as are the buffs to Feeding Frenzy and Roar of Recovery (though changing Roar of Recovery so it no longer benefits from Longevity upsets me). Grace of the Mantis has been changed to reduce a pet's chance to be crit by 2/4%, which is very nice for pet tanking.

There's also a new Ferocity Exotic Pet called the "Spirit Beast," which has Prowl and Spirit Strike as abilities: Spirit Beast - Pet - World of Warcraft I don't even know what a Spirit Beast could be.

Explosive Shot's damage was reduced, but its mana cost was as well (from 10% base mana to 7% base mana).

The Naxxramas set bonuses are pretty awful.

There are other things that need to be noted I'm sure.

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Old 09/18/08, 5:58 AM   #2653
Melkunie
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Hunter
 
Jaedenar (EU)
Originally Posted by dexx View Post
Looks like a fair few nerfs there. I'm suprised there hasnt been more complaints.
The biggest whines are on the official forums and forums like mmo-champion. Personally i understand most of these changes and i expected them to happen. Our PVE dps is very good on 80 and we scaled insanely nice with all the AP/agi/int talents. So i guessed we scaled to fast and they changed the AP/AGI talents into CRIT which won't scale that good with higher ilevel gear.

I got no experience on PVP yet on level 80 except the fact my pet got raped very fast by alot of classes.

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Old 09/18/08, 6:20 AM   #2654
Shandara
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
It is interesting to note they have basically removed ALL talents which scale your AP up by % (except True-shot Aura) and changed them into fixed bonuses. Include the Hunter's Mark change from previous patches and our total AP is suddenly a lot lower.

My guess is this is part of flattening out our scaling, since our pets benefit so much from high AP.

The Spider's Bite change is more a buff for non-BM specs (since a BM pet will have generally very high crit rates with Cobra Strikes already). I'm busy incorporating all the changes into the spreadsheet, but it looks like BM pet dps stays about the same despite the change. SV and MM pets do see a little boost because of it.

I'm a bit worried about mana efficiency though. It seems MM gets an even bigger hit now because Replenishment from all sources is cut in half. SV should have it even easier now with Explosive Shot becoming cheaper. BM has it slightly tougher since such a big portion of its DPS is from Steady Shots.


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Old 09/18/08, 6:30 AM   #2655
Melkunie
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Hunter
 
Jaedenar (EU)
Originally Posted by Shandara View Post
It is interesting to note they have basically removed ALL talents which scale your AP up by % (except True-shot Aura) and changed them into fixed bonuses. Include the Hunter's Mark change from previous patches and our total AP is suddenly a lot lower.

My guess is this is part of flattening out our scaling, since our pets benefit so much from high AP.

The Spider's Bite change is more a buff for non-BM specs (since a BM pet will have generally very high crit rates with Cobra Strikes already). I'm busy incorporating all the changes into the spreadsheet, but it looks like BM pet dps stays about the same despite the change. SV and MM pets do see a little boost because of it.

I'm a bit worried about mana efficiency though. It seems MM gets an even bigger hit now because Replenishment from all sources is cut in half. SV should have it even easier now with Explosive Shot becoming cheaper. BM has it slightly tougher since such a big portion of its DPS is from Steady Shots.
It is time to hit the beta when its up again and see how viper works now for each build. My first thought of changes like

-Combat Experience (Tier 6) Increases your total Agility and Intellect by 2/4%. (Previously 3/6%)
- Master Marksman (Tier 8 ) changed to increase your critical strike chance by 1/2/3/4/5%, and increases your total ranged haste by 1/2/3/4/5%. (Previously increased ranged AP by 2/4/6/8/10%)
- Survival Instincts (Tier 2) changed to - Reduces all damage taken by 2/4% and increases the critical strike chance of your Arcane Shot, Steady Shot, and Explosive Shot by 2/4%. (Previously reduced all damage taken by 2/4% and increased ap by 2/4%)
was that BM would become the better DPS tree. However steady shot got nerfed without telling us numbers just yet. Interesting development.

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Old 09/18/08, 6:38 AM   #2656
Byuu
Glass Joe
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Gorgonnash (EU)
Just one question about Marked for Death: The Talent Calc's (&Wowhead) say its 2/4/6/8/5(?)% damage from pet's specials and your shots on marked targets. So, it is 1/2/3/4/5%, or 2 -10%...
Sorry if i missed this, but just looked weird :/

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Old 09/18/08, 6:41 AM   #2657
Shandara
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
The Marked for Death thing is a display bug, the actual value in the PTR/beta is 2/4/6/8/10%.

Steady Shot damage numbers are on Wowhead, it's a very small nerf, since it's just the static base damage portion.

Rank 1 - 20% AP + 45 damage (instead of 50)
Rank 2 - 20% AP + 108 (instead of 120)
Rank 3 - 20% AP + 198 (instead of 220 I think it was)
Rank 4 - 20% AP + 252 (instead of 280)

Also, the change to Kill Shot (no more knockdown) means you see a slight DPS increase if you weave it in at sub 20% now, at the expense of slightly more mana.


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Old 09/18/08, 6:57 AM   #2658
Melkunie
Von Kaiser
 
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Orc Hunter
 
Jaedenar (EU)
New: Steady Shot Rank 4 5% of base mana

Old: Steady Shot Rank 4 4% of base mana

3.0.2 and long sunwell fights(brutalus) are worrying me a bit.

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Old 09/18/08, 7:09 AM   #2659
Ryujà n
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Kel'Thuzad (EU)
Ok i need to get something clear.
Everywhere (eg. TKA, EJ, BRK) i try to get facts about haste lowering the gcd i read contradictory information.

Some people say haste is lowering the gcd and some state it's not.
I know that the charscreen is buggy and therefore not showing the correct attackspeed.
So could someone who has testet this with a shout timer like quartz tell me
if haste DOES lower the gcd with steadyshto or NOT.

Thanks in advance

// sry for my bad english

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Old 09/18/08, 7:17 AM   #2660
Steelfleece
Soda Popinski
 
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Goblin Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
Okay, some of my concerns were alleviated. It seems that Longevity still affects all the pet abilities as normal that it did before, and Heart of the Phoenix isn't auto-cooldown'ed when the pet is summoned.

Furious Howl works now, and it stacks with Blessing of Might (so I presume it will also stack with Battle Shout).

Also, I think my pet gained about 2000 health. They may have changed scaling or base pet health somehow.

Separation Anxiety is fixed to 20% damage instead of 10%.

Something seems to be wrong with Rabid though...my pet doesn't seem to always get the buff when it casts it.

Also, THANK YOU BLIZZARD. Saronite Arrow Maker = 15 Saronite bars, 10 charges of Saronite Razorheads. Mammoth Cutters are 6 Saronite Bars and 6 Volatile Blasting Powders for 10 charges of bullets. They still require an anvil to make, but at least it cuts down on bag space and material cost/make time.

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Old 09/18/08, 7:19 AM   #2661
Shandara
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
Originally Posted by Steelfleece View Post
Okay, some of my concerns were alleviated. It seems that Longevity still affects all the pet abilities as normal that it did before, and Heart of the Phoenix isn't auto-cooldown'ed when the pet is summoned.

Furious Howl works now, and it stacks with Blessing of Might (so I presume it will also stack with Battle Shout).

Also, I think my pet gained about 2000 health. They may have changed scaling or base pet health somehow.

Separation Anxiety is fixed to 20% damage instead of 10%.

Something seems to be wrong with Rabid though...my pet doesn't seem to always get the buff when it casts it.

Also, THANK YOU BLIZZARD. Saronite Arrow Maker = 15 Saronite bars, 10 charges of Saronite Razorheads. Mammoth Cutters are 6 Saronite Bars and 6 Volatile Blasting Powders for 10 charges of bullets. They still require an anvil to make, but at least it cuts down on bag space and material cost/make time.
Is Furious Howl a 'on next attack' Bonus only or is it a true 10 sec buff now?

EDIT:
If you could try to determine your pet's base stats at level 70/80? Might give a hint if they changed them (or possibly pet scaling with Stamina).


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Old 09/18/08, 7:37 AM   #2662
Steelfleece
Soda Popinski
 
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Goblin Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Shandara View Post
Is Furious Howl a 'on next attack' Bonus only or is it a true 10 sec buff now?

EDIT:
If you could try to determine your pet's base stats at level 70/80? Might give a hint if they changed them (or possibly pet scaling with Stamina).
I can confirm that Furious Howl is no longer "on next attack" (that's what I meant by it's working properly now).

Also, engineering got a nice BoE epic gun. Sun scopes actually have a use now since 3 are required to make it. It is 129.6 dps, 78 attack power, 21 crit rating, 2.8 speed, with a yellow socket and a socket bonus of +8 attack power.

Last edited by Steelfleece : 09/18/08 at 7:48 AM.

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Old 09/18/08, 7:49 AM   #2663
Bullshot
Don Flamenco
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
The Maelstrom (EU)
Originally Posted by Steelfleece View Post
I can confirm that Furious Howl is no longer "on next attack" (that's what I meant by it's working properly now).
Wouldn't that make wolves the de-facto raiding pet for anyone who isn't a BM hunter? I thought Blizzard wanted to move away from must-have pets and bring in variety.

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Old 09/18/08, 7:58 AM   #2664
Midnight
Don Flamenco
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Ysera (EU)
As I can´t log in and test it myself - both mmo-champ and wowhead list steady shot as having a 1.5s cast time. I assume both sites never got around to change it in first place and it´s still 2.0s right?

FaceShooter - a hunter shot recommendation AddOn
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Old 09/18/08, 8:01 AM   #2665
Aym
Banned
 
Tauren Druid
 
Hellscream (EU)
Originally Posted by Steelfleece View Post
I can confirm that Furious Howl is no longer "on next attack" (that's what I meant by it's working properly now).

Also, engineering got a nice BoE epic gun. Sun scopes actually have a use now since 3 are required to make it. It is 129.6 dps, 78 attack power, 21 crit rating, 2.8 speed, with a yellow socket and a socket bonus of +8 attack power.
Since today? Im asking because i finally got on PTR yesterday and FH got removed after first hit.

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Old 09/18/08, 8:06 AM   #2666
Steelfleece
Soda Popinski
 
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Goblin Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Aym View Post
Since today? Im asking because i finally got on PTR yesterday and FH got removed after first hit.
Yes, as of today.

Regarding Steady Shot, it says 2.0 cast time but mine is still being affected by haste down to around 1.5s.

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Old 09/18/08, 9:06 AM   #2667
Aym
Banned
 
Tauren Druid
 
Hellscream (EU)
My Quartz said yesterday that my steady shot cast time was 1,7 seconds, which is consistant with the 15% from my quiver - then again, my staggering 53 haste might not do much else.

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Old 09/18/08, 9:20 AM   #2668
Chul
Piston Honda
 
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Orc Hunter
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Steelfleece View Post
There's also a new Ferocity Exotic Pet called the "Spirit Beast," which has Prowl and Spirit Strike as abilities: Spirit Beast - Pet - World of Warcraft I don't even know what a Spirit Beast could be.
So it has a special that does extra damage after 10s on a 10s cooldown? What if you have Longevity? Does it reduce the time down to its cooldown or do you just lose half your damage?

Originally Posted by Skillstep
Why is it that other classes feel whole and simple and fluid yet hunter feels like directing a symphony as a paraplegic midget with tourettes?

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Old 09/18/08, 9:25 AM   #2669
Shandara
Great Tiger
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
Originally Posted by Chul View Post
So it has a special that does extra damage after 10s on a 10s cooldown? What if you have Longevity? Does it reduce the time down to its cooldown or do you just lose half your damage?
In a related concern, every single pet family skill that does pure DPS (i.e. no other benefits) does less or equal damage to Bite/Claw/Smack. Even with scaling. From a DPS-perspective there's no point in using them.


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Old 09/18/08, 9:28 AM   #2670
Stimpy
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Hunter
 
Chamber of Aspects (EU)
I finally managed to get on PTR last night to test my hunter out. With my haste + trinkets all working I could get my steady shot down to 1 second cast time (That's what Quartz displayed).

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Old 09/18/08, 10:07 AM   #2671
Steelfleece
Soda Popinski
 
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Goblin Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Chul View Post
So it has a special that does extra damage after 10s on a 10s cooldown? What if you have Longevity? Does it reduce the time down to its cooldown or do you just lose half your damage?
I'd find out, but it seems at the moment no one can figure out just what a Spirit Beast is.

I also noticed my pet's base crit chance is up to 8.18%. That means that a ferocity BM pet with +19% crit can reach a pet crit rate of ~27%. This is a change, right? I believe a level 70 pet had ~5% crit, though I didn't think to check on my level 80 pet before the patch. Just to be sure, I checked, but the pet doesn't seem to be receiving any of my Agility.

A bit of testing shows that my pet seems to be receiving about one-half of my gear's Stamina.

Last edited by Steelfleece : 09/18/08 at 10:45 AM.

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Old 09/18/08, 10:27 AM   #2672
KraxisSingular
Banned
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Runetotem (EU)
Interesting changes.

I would say "Blizzard giveth and Blizzard taketh away again, as well as ignores others."

We have seen a fair few logical and good changes, and we have seen some nerfs that might be logical. The Steady nerf is not something I like, but seeing as our DPS was pretty high I think it was perhaps needed. Problem is that now they have nerfed a core ability we still have to struggle with Haste on gear (and MM getting inherent Haste?). But on the other hand I see a lot of rep gear with really nice stats and no Haste. We might be able to kit ourselves out nicely with that (and heroic as well as non-set gear) and then wave our goodbyes to T7/7.5.

BM getting no attention at all. That disturbs me. Invigoration is hardly that cool after the nerf (they talked about undoing stuff but this wasnt?), and with the change to Spider's Bite that is a chunk out of Cobra Strikes too (but it should be made up for by regular swings). These talents now look to be rather 'meh'. Coulpled with the Haste issues and Steady nerf (move towards making Imp Arcane more attractive?) it might hurt BM beyond Naxx. The Hunter himself doesn't look to be in good shape. And still no mention of FI going raidwide. Until that happens I can't see BM having a chance compared to the raidbuffs the others bring (even nerfed Replenishment).

Wolves will be popular, no doubt, and I think I will use one, well I already planned on it... As BM. So many points to get to BM the talent? For what gain? I think buffing me with 6 points somewhere else will do more than buffing a slightly better pet with the same amount of points. As a point of interest, a single point in Longevity will drop Furious Howl to 9 seconds, perfect for pet GCD etc. As well as giving a 100% uptime. Further if we expect Glyph of Bestial Wrath then that one point will drop BW to 1.5 minutes, which seems to fit a lot of trinkets. And even if we are talking a 2 min trinket it won't be that bad.

The AP nerf seems... I don't know if it is good or bad. But I guess Blizzard was concerned at the massive AP scaling MM had, and I understand that. 12+10+4% AP is hard to beat when most other classes get around 5% AP. And that AP would make the MM pet unnaturally powerful, especially now with the scaling specials. The move to crit removes the pet (with no 50 focus ability our pets should mostly be maxed with GftT alone, or for BMs with one BD and one GftT) but brings Mortal Shots closer. We'll see how this pans out.

Mana seems to be a prime resource, but with so little information about JoW and totems, or Replenishment itself, it is hard to judge. But I think it is clear that Blizzard want us to stay with our Int-giving Mail and not dabble with non-Int Leather just because it doesn't have Haste. On the other hand the new Viper looks to be fairly well buffed, I don't know if cast attacks might be worth it if it still causes the 50% damage (pop Rapid on change to Viper and gain ooc Mp5 to boot). Further, Viper still favours slow slow weapons over fast ones. True, Autos will be correspondingly slower, but specials will pop at equal rate (if it is worth it), so the faster weapon will lose manaregen over time. Especially if things like stings and Explosive trap continue to work with this. That can't be right.

Kill Shot and Freezing Arrow. Kill Shot needed that buff. I think it is now moving closer to the old numbers, and at the same time scale. Adn more ranks will mean it should bring some pain to the table. And it should be interesting to use in raids too.
Freezing Arrow, personally I don't know how to use this effectively. Yes we can place a trap out of our range, but it will still be visible when we do so. I guess if a healer is standing still then it would be useful, but how many pvp healers stand still? But if it doesn't share CD with Freezing Trap then we might be rocking. Trap on CD? Drop the arrow on your pursuer. And it might just be quite useful in dungeons too. However I think they will share CD.

Phiew that was a lot. Overall I'm undecided on these changes, but I will for the moment trust Blizzard that this is a move in the right direction.

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Old 09/18/08, 12:11 PM   #2673
Dralmoo
Don Flamenco
 
Orc Hunter
 
Shadowmoon
[edit: invalid test due to metagem]

Last edited by Dralmoo : 09/18/08 at 1:29 PM.

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Old 09/18/08, 12:11 PM   #2674
Kaejin
Great Tiger
 
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Troll Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
Spirit Beasts screams "ghost cats" to me. Ferocity pet with Prowl, an arcane version of Rake (kind of), eats fish, and the icon is just a cat with glowing eyes. Maybe that will help with the search? Maybe I'm just jumping to conclusions.

Warp's change is nice, but does it still trigger Charge's cooldown and vice-versa?

Poison Spit makes serpents a good PvP pet finally.

Freezing Arrow seems to me like a message that we're not getting Camo, though I hope I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by Bullshot View Post
Wouldn't that make wolves the de-facto raiding pet for anyone who isn't a BM hunter? I thought Blizzard wanted to move away from must-have pets and bring in variety.
Raptors were going to be the de-facto pet already. Blizzard hasn't been especially great on making pet variety a priority in PvE. At least in PvP you'll be seeing a lot more than just Scorpids now.

Last edited by Kaejin : 09/18/08 at 12:35 PM. Reason: Never mind, the ES change was to base damage, not the coefficient

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Old 09/18/08, 12:38 PM   #2675
Ele
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Doomhammer (EU)
Originally Posted by Kaejin View Post
Freezing Arrow seems to me like a message that we're not getting Camo, though I hope I'm wrong.
The uncategorized Camouflage spell reads as follows (on wowhead):
Camouflage
16% of base mana
Instant cast 5 min cooldown
You camouflage, cuasing you and your Pet to blend into your surroundings. After 3 sec., you will enter a stealthed state. While stealthed, you and your pet's movement speed is reduced by 30%, but the damage done by your next attack is increased by 50%. You can lay traps while under the effect, but any damage done by you or your pet will cancel the effect. Cannot be cast while in combat.

Honestly a skill on a 5 minutes cooldown is not that appealing, no matter from which angle I look at it. It used to have a listed duration of 20 seconds, which is now apparently gone and that at least makes it a bit more interesting.

P.S.: "Cuasing" is a spell error in wowhead tooltip, I just copied it.

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