WotLK Talents & Abilities Discussion - Page 132

Catalept · 10/01/08, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by Nisu

Word from the beta forums says Aimed resets autoshot and still has weapon speed tacked onto the cooldown. Ewww.

Let's assume that's a bug

Given that the nominal cooldown is 10 seconds, does it share CD with Chimera Shot?

Edit: Actually, it might not be a bug if Blizzard is still hell-bent on keeping it out of our rotations... although that seems a given, based on it's greatly-nerfed damage.

Airraid · 10/01/08, 1:01 AM

Originally Posted by Ghostyman

As for PVP, remember this new Freezing Trap nerf; it's back to breaking on a damage now. Perhaps the rationale is that we can rotate Black Arrow and Concussive shot (for PVP anyway). Maybe they will reimplement bear trap now that freezing breaks on damage, although I was under the impression they added Bear to make up for that deficiency in the first place...

It appears that Black Arrow won't (and seems was never meant to) see the light of day. New blue post on the beta forums:

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

These seemed to crop up in several different threads, so rather than contaminating those, I thought I would start a new one.

Polar Bear Cub -- This wasn't intended to be a tamable pet, and it looked ridiculous.

Black Arrow -- This was an ability we were experimenting with. It isn't actually in the plan for hunters at this point in time. Usually we hide internal abilities better, but we're trying to get beta builds out quickly and this one slipped through the cracks.

Freezing Trap -- The intent was that this trap break on a flat damage amount. However, we found that pets did not respect traps set up that way as CC and would happily break them. When and if we get the pet AI fixed, we'll revert it to the less fragile form of the trap.

Lock and Load -- The design we settled on is 2/4/6, making it better than Nightfall (for comparison). If it's too low, we'll adjust it.

Aimed Shot -- The intention is that it is better than Multi-Shot against a single target, and that the two share a cooldown so that hunter shot rotations don't get back into crazy land too quickly again.

Apologies if I didn't address a question that was important to you.

Source: WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Answers to a few recent questions

Kiera · 10/01/08, 1:05 AM

It also appears that on an initial pass, Readiness does not reset BW- WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Actual 9014 changes

AotV still doesn't have passive regen either, doh! Serpent sting ticks no longer regen mana through AotV either.

Kaejin · 10/01/08, 1:06 AM

Charge was removed from Ferocity.
I didn't take it for my Ferocity builds, but what the devil?

As far as L&L goes, is it even a 1% DPS per talent point investment anymore?

Mattaos · 10/01/08, 1:09 AM

Did anyone notice they removed Charge from our pet's ferocity tree?

EDIT: Only mention this because I did not remember reading this change in the patch notes prior to logging into the PTR tonight. Not a major change, but from a PvP standpoint it is a slight nerf to lose that 1 second stun mechanic. I even perfered the Charge ability over Dash for PvE.

EDIT #2: I am extremely tired and didn't even notice this change to the ferocity tree was mentioned above. Sorry.

Equalizer · 10/01/08, 1:17 AM

Originally Posted by Kaejin

My sentiments have been spoken already. I was really looking forward to Survival, but they've put almost everything I initially liked about the changed tree out to pasture, with the sole exception of Hunting Party.

L&L is once again a PvP talent with slight PvE funtionality.

Explosive Shot was severely neutered.

Trap Mastery is extremely weak for it's position and only a promise of improvement was made for some time in the future (my, how vague they were).

Surefooted relegated to a pure PvP talent and moved to a spot where it competes with another pure PvP talent in order to progress down the tree, even in PvE specs. (I thought this switch was supposed to be good news.)

Readiness outright removed from the tree, just as it became somewhat useful for what it was.

Sniper Training STILL BAD.

Freezing Trap's reverted state is stupid beyond stupid. I honestly feel like we're just being bullied at this point.

My heart goes out to all the raiding hunters who hate BM spec. I myself like the spec, so this doesn't hurt me as much, but I was still looking forward to trying something new.

I just don't like Marks that much. Mana consumption is far too high.

Get out of my head.

This is basically where I'm at, at the moment.

I really can't comprehend what they are thinking. I mean they might as well just give us two trees, one for PvP and one for PvE and be done with it.

Kaejin · 10/01/08, 1:25 AM

I can relate with the tired thing.

I just wish Blizzard could tell that we're all getting confused and scared about what they're doing to us (mostly survival). Why was survival so brutally eviscerated in the last two patches?

Where are they sending our class? All signs I can read point to some discordant DPS and tree disparity limbo.

I probably have my neighbors wondering why I'm laughing hysterically every now and then.

KraxisSingular · 10/01/08, 1:29 AM

Freezing Trap -- The intent was that this trap break on a flat damage amount. However, we found that pets did not respect traps set up that way as CC and would happily break them. When and if we get the pet AI fixed, we'll revert it to the less fragile form of the trap.

Don't like the look of that.

Not that I don't think they don't want to do this, but it just seems like a pretty low priority thing. Change our pet's AI to respect traps when they are set to have a breakpoint. I just don't think the cost/benefit is swinging in our favour. If they were hellbent on making it as they wanted then GC woudl have worded it differently, no 'and if'. Yes that little adition was likely not contious, but it shows her state of mind in regards to the matter... Uncertainty.

And no Black Arrow to boot.

Kaejin · 10/01/08, 1:36 AM

I want to say it feels like we're last on the list of priorities, but that wouldn't make sense considering how much we got changed this patch. Badly changed.

I'm just going to shut up for now because I can't get over this. I've completely lost my e-compsure.

KraxisSingular · 10/01/08, 1:48 AM

Ohhh... I just thought of something.

Hex is like the 'old' traps right? Having a breakpoint... So will that mean our pets won't respect that either? Can we expect to see that changed next time? Or do we have to assume that Hunters can't pull pets back from traps, but they can from other people's CC? Either we can do it or we can't, not this some but not all stuff please.

If traps break because a Hunter can't figure out to pull the pet back, then that Hunter needs to practice a bit before attempting to use traps in any serious situation. Give us breakpoint traps again and just try to fix the pet AI on the side. Then it will come as a welcome little benefit along the way.

• Nisu · 10/01/08, 2:05 AM

I'm just boggled by the bizarre changes. They're not nerfs per se - they're just fairly major-looking changes that fail to have any actual effect on the game despite obviously having some sort of thought behind them.

Blizzard: you're doing it wrong.

Rhoi · 10/01/08, 2:16 AM

Originally Posted by Equalizer

I really can't comprehend what they are thinking. I mean they might as well just give us two trees, one for PvP and one for PvE and be done with it.

They have done this unfortunatly

BM = PvE
SV = PVP
and
MM = left over points to spend once you get to the end of the other trees. Its just there for flavour.

Whenever I mention the nurfbat and the survival tree to my guild/other players, I'm always told "yep all classes are being nerfed. Get over it"

But its not that the SV tree is getting nerfed like a few builds ago with the explosive shot changes etc, they are actually now taking talents from SV and giving them to other trees. And when they dont do that directly, they are leaving the talents there but taking the bonus and moving that to another talent in another tree eg the hit from Surefooted. The Hunter as a class isnt getting a nerf as such, its the SV tree thats taking all the pain.

Don't get me wrong, BM and MM could use some work, but the way to do it isnt by pruning SV.

I also dont understand why they have such a hard time in general letting the players know what their ideas about how they want each class to be. Players have asked time and time again what is the direction the devs are thinking in and to no avail. Its like its all a huge secret.

I'm probably gunna get a ban from this post for whinging I know so I'll try to say something on topic...

With the poor amount of resistances that our pets are getting in LK, has anyone looked to see if they are getting more of our own resistances scaled to them than they are currently on live?

Terp · 10/01/08, 2:22 AM

Ya'll really need to calm down with the hand wringing. If they can tear down SV this quickly they surely can build it up pretty fast too. The tree is an utter mess, I don't think it's necessarily fair to cast down judgment on Blizzard when there's obviously no effort put into it at all currently.

Rhoi · 10/01/08, 2:30 AM

Originally Posted by Terp

Ya'll really need to calm down with the hand wringing. If they can tear down SV this quickly they surely can build it up pretty fast too. The tree is an utter mess, I don't think it's necessarily fair to cast down judgment on Blizzard when there's obviously no effort put into it at all currently.

True

/takesdeepbreath

Thats better. I guess there is nothing we can do but wait and see. We've all seemed to become glass half empty people in this thread lately

Xterra2k · 10/01/08, 2:30 AM

Aside from the already mentioned changes, I think that Glyph of Bestial Wrath - Item - World of Warcraft may have been changed or removed. This glyph was missing from my glyph interface upon logging into the newly patched beta realms. I have not been able to check the AH to see if the glyph still exists.

Chul · 10/01/08, 2:39 AM

Originally Posted by Kiera

It also appears that on an initial pass, Readiness does not reset BW- WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Actual 9014 changes

Not surprising given that if you had Readiness, you couldn't get BW so it's probably never even been tested until now.

Squinky001 · 10/01/08, 2:43 AM

Originally Posted by Xterra2k

Aside from the already mentioned changes, I think that Glyph of Bestial Wrath - Item - World of Warcraft may have been changed or removed. This glyph was missing from my glyph interface upon logging into the newly patched beta realms. I have not been able to check the AH to see if the glyph still exists.

It's still in my glyph interface on the PTR. Probably just a glitch?

Cranch · 10/01/08, 3:13 AM

Originally Posted by Xterra2k

Aside from the already mentioned changes, I think that Glyph of Bestial Wrath - Item - World of Warcraft may have been changed or removed. This glyph was missing from my glyph interface upon logging into the newly patched beta realms. I have not been able to check the AH to see if the glyph still exists.

The lower left glyph slot is enabled at level 80 only, so if you had a glyph there, it got eaten.

Originally Posted by Keldin

MM burns mana like a bushfire.

Just tried a MM build on the PTR -- mana consumption was fine, was a bit better than BM actually. (Note: rotation was (CS SS*)* and it outdps'd BM slightly, self buffed.)

Kaejin · 10/01/08, 3:24 AM

Oh? Is that thanks for Readiness giving another Rapid Fire for Rapid Recouperation?

Tyranna · 10/01/08, 3:41 AM

Just tried a MM build on the PTR -- mana consumption was fine, was a bit better than BM actually. (Note: rotation was (CS SS*)* and it outdps'd BM slightly, self buffed.)

Can you provide more specifics please? I'd like to hear your spec, exact rotation, time till out of mana, and dps if at all possible. I was doing some longevity tests with MM and trying out different rotations last PTR build and I was going oom anywhere from 1m15s to 1m58s. I'm assuming the disparity was due to RR being proc based. I also was testing AotV and I usually was back up to full mana in around 20s.

Xterra2k · 10/01/08, 3:42 AM

Originally Posted by Cranch

The lower left glyph slot is enabled at level 80 only, so if you had a glyph there, it got eaten.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Nice to see that The Beast Within is back and functioning (fully?) again.

Gorah · 10/01/08, 4:04 AM

Originally Posted by Kaejin

Oh? Is that thanks for Readiness giving another Rapid Fire for Rapid Recouperation?

Can't really think of any other reason.
I've been playing with MM a bit just before new build and mana issues were so-so. With CS-SS rotation I was still going dry faster than I would probably like.
New change to AotV is bit puzzling me - anyone able to confirm what changed? Is it back to weapon speed % of mana regen from weapon speedx2?

Also speaking of AotV - I've noticed that switching to AotV and firing CS cuts Serpent Sting damage in half and the cut continues even if you will refresh the sting with CS again while in AotH. It's bit annoying, as I like to slap a sting when my AP trinket procs are up for that bit more of damage. After switching to AotV and back I have to hold CS until sting drops, or im stuck with 50% damage per tick (it cant be refreshed without all the procs thanks to "More powerful spell is active" message).

After so severe nerfing of the SV tree I'm finding myself clinging to bits of hope that MM will pull it's weight in PvE. I'm bitter as I don't want to raid another expansion as BM. I find the spec boring as it is and it will be even worse with unlinked autoshot. I can have pet management fun in any other spec as well, I don't need to spend 50+ points in that tree for it.

Gurth · 10/01/08, 4:49 AM

Looks like they wanna make SV the pvp tree, and BM / MM trees the raid ones. Which would be fine for me, all of the other pure dps classes have that kind of distinction.

Too bad that 1 min TBW + kindred spirit passive movement increase outweight any of the SV trick it may get.

It looks to me that there's still a lot of work to do on the hunter class and 13/11 is getting closer and closer. I'm not expecting any fix before a couple of week after the majority of players get to 80, kind of dejavu of TBC isn't it?

Jintra · 10/01/08, 5:04 AM

Originally Posted by Tyranna

Can you provide more specifics please? I'd like to hear your spec, exact rotation, time till out of mana, and dps if at all possible. I was doing some longevity tests with MM and trying out different rotations last PTR build and I was going oom anywhere from 1m15s to 1m58s. I'm assuming the disparity was due to RR being proc based. I also was testing AotV and I usually was back up to full mana in around 20s.

The key is AotV management.
I've raided Naxx 10 as MM in the last build and tried toget the lowest AotV-cycle.
You WILL have to switch into AotV right after the last CS usable with your remaining mana-pool.
After that, SS-Arcane (more than 1 Target->Multi) will be your rotation.
With raid-supported Mana-regen you'll be @ 85-90% mana right about time to switch back to AotH and use CS.
Edit: with ~11k Mana raidbuffed that is /edit

Still have to test if it's as fast as then now that Serpent-ticks doesn't regenerate mana anymore in AotV :<

Tyranna · 10/01/08, 5:16 AM

Still have to test if it's as fast as then now that Serpent-ticks doesn't regenerate mana anymore in AotV :<

I think that could be a bug considering the dot from explosive shot is supposedly procing AotV. Could go either way I guess.