Taking a stab at what I see here, as I don't use Recount, but am I seeing both of you Hunters getting out DPSed by two Retadins, a Mage, and a Warrior? And if so, does this bother you in the slightest that two hybrids and a tank-capable class are doing equal to more DPS than a pure DPS class is possible? I know that Blizz's intention was to bring off spec classes up to a level near to that of pure DPS classes but unless you died early on or were involved in doing something that limited your time-to-DPS, I find this rather disconcerting.
If it's a log for the whole of Naxx not just boss fights, and I'm assuming it is, because I can't parse it atm, I wouldn't be surprised, really. Even on live, hunters have slightly worse times doing effective dps on trash for various class design reasons. (I.e pet movement, Hunter's mark taking a while to stack to full effectiveness, readjusting rotations upon mob deaths, etc), , as well as paladins and DKs having some nifty AOE tools that really go well on trash packs. (Consecration, Death and Decay and so forth).
Originally Posted by XI-
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
If it's a log for the whole of Naxx not just boss fights, and I'm assuming it is, because I can't parse it atm, I wouldn't be surprised, really. Even on live, hunters have slightly worse times doing effective dps on trash for various class design reasons. (I.e pet movement, Hunter's mark taking a while to stack to full effectiveness, readjusting rotations upon mob deaths, etc), , as well as paladins and DKs having some nifty AOE tools that really go well on trash packs. (Consecration, Death and Decay and so forth).
It was just a log for patchwerk, I'm pretty sure I would be around 4k dps as BM if for whatever reason the server would stop kicking me offline whenever we engaged a boss and wouldn't let me log back in until the boss had died.
It was just a log for patchwerk, I'm pretty sure I would be around 4k dps as BM if for whatever reason the server would stop kicking me offline whenever we engaged a boss and wouldn't let me log back in until the boss had died.
Even so, it's a testament to the problems with this new style of balancing when a class with three DPS trees gets outDPS'd by classes who can spec as tanks and healers. Two of our trees have major problems, and one of them works because of major double dipping and scaling via % talents for our pet.
We're toeing a dangerous line at the moment with only a month left for Blizzard to set things right.
Thankfully, the Marks tree isn't in such bad shape that they couldn't fix it with some slight up tuning in damage talents and scaling down mana costs across the board on shots.
Even so, it's a testament to the problems with this new style of balancing when a class with three DPS trees gets outDPS'd by classes who can spec as tanks and healers.
Well, GC has posted that the damage difference between a dps class and a hybrid dps-talented class should be such that it is significant, but not so significant that a skilled hybrid would not out dps a unskilled dps class.
That probably means only a max 5-10% difference in dps under ideal conditions. And I assume that is compared to the best possible dps build of the dps class. That presumably means that unless all main trees are supposed to be equally good as raid dps'ers, an optimally specced equally-geared equally-skilled hybrid would do as good dps as a dps-class' sub-optimal raid builds.
I do like the dev's ideas of balancing the classes so that it is the player and not the class that is important, but I am fearful that their intentions will not be fulfilled.
Well, GC has posted that the damage difference between a dps class and a hybrid dps-talented class should be such that it is significant, but not so significant that a skilled hybrid would not out dps a unskilled dps class.
That's kind of my point. We all know that the DPS pass hasn't been done yet and that the SV tree is in a state of disarray. We also know that the MM Hunter in this encounter got D/Ced during the course of the fight. I don't know the Hunters in question nor do I know the Paladins, the Mage, or the DK. I'm just curious about what might be missing from all of this that would have allowed the classes to exceed the DPS of the Hunter.
That's kind of my point. We all know that the DPS pass hasn't been done yet and that the SV tree is in a state of disarray. We also know that the MM Hunter in this encounter got D/Ced during the course of the fight. I don't know the Hunters in question nor do I know the Paladins, the Mage, or the DK. I'm just curious about what might be missing from all of this that would have allowed the classes to exceed the DPS of the Hunter.
It was me the BM hunter that got dced early in the fight, the MM and Surv Hunters were both there the full duration. Ret Paladins are very strong in beta currently, probably too strong.
The recount screenshot is for the patchwerk fight only, so is the wws'esque stasiscl webstats link. I also uploaded the whole combatlog to rapidshare.
Concerning the order of the damage dealers on recount - I believe that Retadins are kind of a bit over the top right now but considering Marrnos didn´t seem to have had serpent sting up almost the whole fight he should´ve been quite a bit higher on dps if it hadn´t bugged. And as Mikari already pointed out BM is propably up there anyway under normal circumstances.
FaceShooter - a hunter shot recommendation AddOn
The optimism of action is better than the pessimism of thought.
- Greenpeace UK
Again, don't get me wrong. I don't mind other classes battling for the top spots. What concerns me, though, is non-pure classes battling out for those spots when pure DPS classes bring nothing fully substantial to the fight. A single buff or minimal CC is not something that I consider to be substantial support.
Something that has been bothering me, though is this:
- Now that we no longer get the +5% bonus to Multi-Shot on our PvP gloves, why are we still maintaining the nerf to Barrage and Imp. Barrage?
- Now that Arcane Shot no longer dispells AND we no longer have talents that boost through percentile incriments, why are we still utilizing the pre-BC nerfed version of Arcane Shot?
Seems to me there's a lot of DPS missing from Phantom Serpent Sting in this report as well? DPS activity almost 3 minutes, 19 ticks of Serpent Sting? That's roughly a third of what we should be seeing.
Regardless of whether other classes need some tuning to make them more in line with other classes or not, Serpent Sting being bugged like this does make accurate comparisons harder to make.
Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max
Seems to me there's a lot of DPS missing from Phantom Serpent Sting in this report as well? DPS activity almost 3 minutes, 19 ticks of Serpent Sting? That's roughly a third of what we should be seeing.
Regardless of whether other classes need some tuning to make them more in line with other classes or not, Serpent Sting being bugged like this does make accurate comparisons harder to make.
Furthermore, to what extent is this bug impacting other things. Are the phantom ticks not proccing LnL, are you losing damage through Noxious Stings, etc?
Just thought I'd mention that ~35k damage of that ret's dps is exorcism. Removing that drops them to just above the Hunter's damage. Couple that with the Serpent Sting bug, and hunter's arent hurting near as much as we previously thought.
Broken mechanics or not, our damage appears to be at respectable levels. Now if only we could get them to make us viable in pvp again.....
PS: PvP "viability" is being defined as anything that lets us try a different tactic other than outlast the other team's mana >.<
Seems to me there's a lot of DPS missing from Phantom Serpent Sting in this report as well? DPS activity almost 3 minutes, 19 ticks of Serpent Sting? That's roughly a third of what we should be seeing.
Regardless of whether other classes need some tuning to make them more in line with other classes or not, Serpent Sting being bugged like this does make accurate comparisons harder to make.
As far as the phantom Serpent sting, I believe this is only an issue with Marksman Hunters. It appears that the refresh on Chimera is the problem. The only way I have found to alleviate it is by using chimera every 10 seconds RIGHT when it cools down. I suppose this is fine, but when I'm playing MM at 70 on the dummies on test....man my mana, it goes so incredibly fast that I find myself wanting to refresh the sting with chimera towards the end of the SS duration and not immediately when chimera cools every 10 seconds. Extending my rotation like that really helps with my mana, unfortunately it causes issues because you lose all of your sting damage.
The other two builds refresh the sting manually and seem to have no problems with the serpent stings doing the full damage for their duration.
Originally Posted by Mikari
It was just a log for patchwerk, I'm pretty sure I would be around 4k dps as BM if for whatever reason the server would stop kicking me offline whenever we engaged a boss and wouldn't let me log back in until the boss had died.
Man, I would love to see that Hope the server stabilizes and we get to see BM reach that before beta ends.
Has the Sting refresh bug with Chimera been reported, I don't believe I've seen it on the PTR or beta forums, perhaps someone could report it? It seems they are very active on the US PTR forum.
Why are we saying Survival is still in shambles if they are competing with MM?
Can anyone shed some light on what makes Surv bad at this point in beta?
I ran some dps tests prior to Friday's patch (as far as I can tell nothing's changed since Friday that would affect the numbers). The thread is at WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> PvE DPS Tests - All 3 Specs. The short version is, with my tests MM/BM were coming out 150-200 dps ahead of survival, this is in a test dummy environment without raid buffs. Improved tracking obviously doesn't work on the test dummies but I included it in the MM spec I tested too, so there is definitely a pretty noticable gap. Not sure if the chimera bug affected my tests but if so that would mean MM really should even be a bit higher.
The real problem with survival is probably that they overnerfed explosive and lock n load. Moving readiness out without replacing it with another damage talent and forcing survival hunters to spend more points in MM for the hit talent instead of survival also did not help matters. Hopefully they will see that they went too far and address it.
The ret pali issue is troubling. Based on what I've seen thus far they need to be tweaked down a bit. But if the issue is truly exorcism I will point out that perhaps it's a good time to re-evaluate whether an ability specific to only certain types of mobs should have quite a huge effect on paladin dps. It creates an even greater balancing issue since anytime you design an instance with a heavy amount of affected mobs (i.e. Naxx) you're going to pretty out of whack dps which then later on if they design instances that don't have a lot of those types of mobs, you have to tweak something again, or else you end up in a situation where everyone stuffs their groups with ret palis in Naxx then they aren't welcome elsewhere. I don't wish for ret palis to be unwanted, but I do worry that if they don't balance things better, pure dps classes are going to be pretty unattractive, especially in 10 mans where you are going to have a hard time getting all the utility you want, especially with paladins having 2 fairly big deal buffs that no other class can supply (wisdom and kings).
Just did some testing on the PTR and found Rabid is not firing even when on auto-cast and no other pet specials are used. My pet just keeps attacking with 100 focus.
Looking at the Patchwork combatlog spreadsheet, I did not find one instance of Rabid or Rabid Power.
Originally Posted by Skillstep
Why is it that other classes feel whole and simple and fluid yet hunter feels like directing a symphony as a paraplegic midget with tourettes?
Just did some testing on the PTR and found Rabid is not firing even when on auto-cast and no other pet specials are used. My pet just keeps attacking with 100 focus.
Looking at the Patchwork combatlog spreadsheet, I did not find one instance of Rabid or Rabid Power.
Yeah I noticed that too, I tried putting it on my pets cast bar and turning on auto cast and it wouldnt fire, then I tried manually clicking it while it was on the pet bar and it still didnt fire. I had to click it from the pet spell book to get it to go off.
Yeah I noticed that too, I tried putting it on my pets cast bar and turning on auto cast and it wouldnt fire, then I tried manually clicking it while it was on the pet bar and it still didnt fire. I had to click it from the pet spell book to get it to go off.
10/04/08, 3:55 PM
Hope the server stabilizes and we get to see BM reach that before beta ends.
Similar Threads
