Wow, that sounds utterly broken. It'll make replenishment work drastically different in a 10man and a 25man.
If it works that way, what's the point of having 2-3 replenishers in a 25man raid (other than for redundancy if one happens to die)? Has there been any blue communication on this?
My understanding is that the 10 people lowest on mana (not sure if that's absolute or percent lowest) get the buff. If some or all of the people that are lowest already have the buff, those people get it refreshed... but that doesn't mean it always goes to the people that already have it.
Honestly, that seems like a reasonable way to handle it to me.
To put it another way, hunting party (or whatever) gives the replenishment buff to the 10 lowest mana raid members who do not have replenishment from a different source active.
Anyone care to verify/disprove?
That would be most excellent. But how could a replenishment effect then be refreshed?
So I suspect that can not be the way it works...
That would be most excellent. But how could a replenishment effect then be refreshed?
So I suspect that can not be the way it works...
I'll edit the post and make the word "different" bold, if you see that word you'll see how. I did wonder if it would just get glossed over, when it's actually one of the most significant words in that sentence
My understanding is that the 10 people lowest on mana (not sure if that's absolute or percent lowest) get the buff. If some or all of the people that are lowest already have the buff, those people get it refreshed... but that doesn't mean it always goes to the people that already have it.
Honestly, that seems like a reasonable way to handle it to me.
I don't consider it reasonable, because different classes have drastically different mana mechanics. To my knowledge, it doesn't make much difference to a warlock if he's on 90% mana or 10% (obviously you'd want to minimize lifetapping during bloodlust/trinkets/whatever), so what's stopping a warlock from burning all his mana and cruising at 10% the whole fight, hogging all the replenishment and only lifetapping when absolutely necessary?
On the opposite side of the spectrum, a mage wants to pop a mana gem as soon as possible since it has a cooldown and you want to make sure you can use as many as possible in a fight. The poor mage would only get any replenishment buff late in the fight, but does in fact need it just as much as the warlock.
I know the Cat has been performing very well along with the obvious choice of a Devilsaur. From the posts I have read so far on this subject suggest that the Rake DoT from the Cat is what scales the most causing higher damage numbers. I was wondering if anyone has tested a level 80 Wasp in a raid yet?
Reason I ask is the math just suggests that the Wasp is a contender for being a high DPS pet.
Sting - Your wasp stings for 64 to 86 Nature damage, and decreases the armor of the target by 1260 for 20 sec. While affected, the target cannot stealth or turn invisible. 25 Focus, Instant, Melee Range, 6 sec. CD
Sting seems to have an average damage of 75 per sting being applied every 6 sec. 12.5 DPS
BM hunter with Longevity would bring that CD down to 4.2 sec. making it 17.9 DPS
I know that Sting alone is not going to match up with Rake or Monstrous Bite alone, but I had read at some point that the Sting debuff was considered "magic" which would ignore armor. Once the armor reduction debuff portion of this talent is factored in (1240 ArP) I wonder how well this pet will preform DPS-wise.
What is the average armor of a level 80 boss? 9000+? Assuming ArP plays out the same in WotLK as it did in TBC, 1240 ArP would equal approx. 5% DPS increase, right?
My next question is...Is the new Armor Pen Rating system calculating the same reduction in armor as the flat amounts we currently have in TBC?
I know the Cat has been performing very well along with the obvious choice of a Devilsaur. From the posts I have read so far on this subject suggest that the Rake DoT from the Cat is what scales the most causing higher damage numbers. I was wondering if anyone has tested a level 80 Wasp in a raid yet?
Reason I ask is the math just suggests that the Wasp is a contender for being a high DPS pet.
Sting - Your wasp stings for 64 to 86 Nature damage, and decreases the armor of the target by 1260 for 20 sec. While affected, the target cannot stealth or turn invisible. 25 Focus, Instant, Melee Range, 6 sec. CD
Sting seems to have an average damage of 75 per sting being applied every 6 sec. 12.5 DPS
BM hunter with Longevity would bring that CD down to 4.2 sec. making it 17.9 DPS
I know that Sting alone is not going to match up with Rake or Monstrous Bite alone, but I had read at some point that the Sting debuff was considered "magic" which would ignore armor. Once the armor reduction debuff portion of this talent is factored in (1240 ArP) I wonder how well this pet will preform DPS-wise.
What is the average armor of a level 80 boss? 9000+? Assuming ArP plays out the same in WotLK as it did in TBC, 1240 ArP would equal approx. 5% DPS increase, right?
My next question is...Is the new Armor Pen Rating system calculating the same reduction in armor as the flat amounts we currently have in TBC?
Sting is a minor armor debuff so it doesn't stack with Fearie Fire or Curse of Recklessness, in other words, if you don't have a extra warlock or druid in the raid it's a usefull raid buff.
The armor pen from pets doesn't stack with the armor pen from other class abilities. In the absence of those abilities like you might have in a 10 man or if you're running short on a particular class one night, that makes those pets really good and you should definitely use them. That's one of the things a hunter does bring to a group, the ability to pick which class debuffs they bring with their pets.
As others have pointed out above me it doesn't stack with Faerie Fire, but if you don't have a feral or moonkin then it is worth absolutely worth keeping up. This is leading me to plan on keeping a stock of different pets depending on raid comp. I'll most likely stay BM and have a worm when a warrior isn't available (most likely 10 mans) a wasp for when a feral isn't but a warrior is, a cat/spirit beast/devilsaur (one of them) for when those 2 buffs are available, and then a gorilla for grinding. Anything I'm missing there? I figure that covers the basics for providing raid dps benefit and covering any daily solo'ing/five mans.
Last edited by Doncabesa : 10/07/08 at 1:09 PM.
Reason: few typos
BM hunter with Longevity would bring that CD down to 4.2 sec. making it 17.9 DPS
Effectively it won't be that good though since the pets do have a GCD of their own. CD will effectively be 4.5 seconds, resulting in 16.67 DPS.
AP does have an effect on these abilities. And Sting might scale nicely. However looking at the other skills it doesn't look like Sting's main advantage lies in damage. It is the ArP component.
While CoR or FF (FFF too) renders Sting somewhat redundant, one could argue the other way too. Unless a Feral Druid is tanking or a Balance Druid is specced Imp FF, then Sting looks to be very good indeed. It allows the other classes to not worry about and/or waste GCDs on it. Our Wasp on the other hand gains a direct damage, which might not compare to Rake, but it is likely to be less difference over the entire run. And a Warlock can cast Doom/CoA instead, which should prove to be a great boon overall.
And with the very low CD, even a couple of resisted Stings won't be a problem.
Sting might become a staple for that very reason. We should count our blessings that it is a Ferocity pet that has it and not a Tenacity pet, and even more important isn't an Exotic. I for one will tame one and will likely use it, even if I would prefer to use my cat.
I'll most likely stay BM and have a worm when a warrior isn't available
Rogues can keep Expose Armor up. That counts for less of a DPS loss than you bringing a Tenacity pet.
If your pet is basically critting every second or two because of cobra strikes, the odds that frenzy will drop off much at all with a 60% chance to refresh it each time your pet crits are pretty low, and if it does, it would only be for a second or two.
3/3 Cobra Strikes means that after there's a 60% chance after the hunter crits (with Arcane Steady or Kill) that the pet will crit on it's next two special attacks, which in turn means a 60% chance (with 3/5 Frenzy) on each special that the pet gets Frenzy. That's in addition to the pet's normal crit rate.
I know the Cat has been performing very well along with the obvious choice of a Devilsaur. From the posts I have read so far on this subject suggest that the Rake DoT from the Cat is what scales the most causing higher damage numbers. I was wondering if anyone has tested a level 80 Wasp in a raid yet?
Reason I ask is the math just suggests that the Wasp is a contender for being a high DPS pet.
I mentioned this a little earlier (along with spirit beasts), but without beta access I can't test it out. @the 3 people who replied to him - he's not talking about the armor debuff! He's talking about the damage portion. It's on a shorter cooldown than other pet specials and is a magical attack, meaning it scales with Curse of the Elements/Moonkin Talent.
The problem I see with spirit beasts is that their "dot" does not tick until 10 seconds later, which is longer than the talented cooldown of the ability. How this mechanic actually works will have a great influence oh their dps potential, but no one has be able to really test spirit beasts as of yet because there is only 1 (?) spawn that dozens of hunters are camping.
Can you explain why? Sorry for being an idiot, I'm just trying to learn!
The thought is that when you crit and proc cobra strikes, one of the following two pet crits will trigger the buff. Just as shadow priests who only run 3/5 weaving, it's going to fall off at points which could be easily avoided by speccing 5/5, but the mild increase in uptime may not be worth it when you compare the other talents you could pick up.
It's called Bloodlust, not Heroism. What kind of pansy name is Heroism, anyway?
<Bad> Dragonmaw US www.damnwesuck.com
12/13 [25] Heroic - Recruiting exceptional players.
With the patch coming out soon I'll be the "non BM hunter" in the raid and as survival doesn't seem very attractive at the moment I'm leaning towards a MM spec. Problem is I've been really busy with real life stuff the last couple months so I have very little information about MM spec and how it works the best at level 70.
Realistically I assume that the rotation will be 6 steady shots + chimera shot, rinse & repeat while keeping serpent sting ticking. (correct me if I'm wrong please).
Generally I'm looking answers for:
-Is 2/2 GftT worth it?
-Is the total damage and mana efficiency increase from 3/3 improved steady shot better than 2/3 and a point in improved tracking?
-Is improved IAotH still worth it or am I better off with 7 points in survival? Wild quiver gets a nice boost from IAotH but steady shot gains literally nothing from the extra haste in 25 man raid if I'm correct.
-Rapid recuperation is a question mark to me. Is it better to have two points in that over improved tracking to spend less time with aspect of the viper? With readiness and rapid killing I'll spend 16.66% of the time with 60% lower mana cost. Got no clue if pet gains anything from the lowered focus cost.
The problem I see with spirit beasts is that their "dot" does not tick until 10 seconds later, which is longer than the talented cooldown of the ability. How this mechanic actually works will have a great influence oh their dps potential, but no one has be able to really test spirit beasts as of yet because there is only 1 (?) spawn that dozens of hunters are camping.
From what I've heard, it's more like a DoT with initial damage (like flame shock) that ticks every 10 seconds but only has a 10 second duration. When you get Longevity, it will start to stack and the DoT will tick every 10 seconds for more damage.
I'd love to test it out, but I've yet to even see Loque'nahak, and waiting in Scholazar until he spawns at some random spot isn't high on my list of things to do.
3/3 Cobra Strikes means that after there's a 60% chance after the hunter crits (with Arcane Steady or Kill) that the pet will crit on it's next two special attacks, which in turn means a 60% chance (with 3/5 Frenzy) on each special that the pet gets Frenzy. That's in addition to the pet's normal crit rate.
Originally Posted by lairpie
If your pet is basically critting every second or two because of cobra strikes, the odds that frenzy will drop off much at all with a 60% chance to refresh it each time your pet crits are pretty low, and if it does, it would only be for a second or two.
Whether you can afford to go 3/5 frenzy and 3/3 cobra strikes depends on a few factors, including 1) your crit rate 2) the type of pet you're using (ferocity pets have up to 9% higher crit) and 3) your pet attack speed (cobra reflexes, raid haste, serpent's swiftness, frenzy). Your pet certainly won't be critting "every second or two" because of Cobra Strikes, though. If you have a 30% crit rate and maxxed out Cobra Strikes, that's only an 18% chance of proccing CS per steady (or arcane or kill) shot. It may be critting often enough because of the other things, however.
For the record, 30% crit is pretty high, at least for when you first ding 80. I leveled in SSO badge/Hyjal gear, and most of my gear options while leveling weren't upgrades. I didn't spend time doing instances though, which is what people most likely will do before trying raid instances. In any event, my crit rate is down to around 15%, which makes Cobra Strikes a 9% chance to proc per steady, and it isn't really worth the points until I can get my crit back up.
Right now I am trying to figure out what BM spec will best maximize pet survivability by balancing the talents Endurance training, Imp Revive Pet, and Imp Mend Pet. My current thought: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
I know what you are thinking. . . I am taking the 51 point BM talent. My thought, as I had mentioned before, is that the additional 4 points will allow me to have a pet that can DPS well and survive longer in a raid environment.
I haven't tested at level 70 with marks, but at 80 with surival, GftT was a 150 dps gain (with no buffs on a target dummy), which is pretty significant. Marks would be a bit less crit but I'm not sure how much of a gap the 70 to 80 transition would be in dps. I would guess however that it's still a very worthy point investment.
Right now I am trying to figure out what BM spec will best maximize pet survivability by balancing the talents Endurance training, Imp Revive Pet, and Imp Mend Pet. My current thought: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
I know what you are thinking. . . I am taking the 51 point BM talent. My thought, as I had mentioned before, is that the additional 4 points will allow me to have a pet that can DPS well and survive longer in a raid environment.
Personally, I think moving three points from Mortal Shots to Focused Aim is going to be a key change. 3% hit is hard to ignore, and with our crit rates being on the low side, the benefit from bigger crits is going to be diminished.
Also, I don't foresee a pet taking much physical damage, and as such, Thick Hide isn't going to see much added survivability in raids for you pet. I think it would be better to move those three points into capping Imp Rez and maybe into Endurance Training.
So are raptors pretty much out now with the buff to cats and the addition of spirit beasts? Is it because of the longer cooldown on savage rend or is something still considered "broken" with rake?
Am I missing something or is hunter's mark static 110 attack power increase and we have a three point tier two talent that increases attack power by 33?
At level 70, this is correct.
At level 76 there is a Rank 5 of Hunter's Mark which increases it to 300 AP, turning the talent into 90 AP for 3 points. While still quite terrible, it's sadly still a larger dps boost than Piercing Shots or Wild Quiver. :/
10/07/08, 10:55 AM
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