WotLK Talents & Abilities Discussion - Page 158

Mikari · 10/12/08, 8:14 AM

Anyone know how Aspect of the Viper is supposed to work? I was under the impression it returned a % of base mana equal to 2x base weapon speed, but the return is higher if I have an Intellect buff.

Griffen · 10/12/08, 8:20 AM

Originally Posted by Lactose

Marked for Death does affect Multi-Shot.

EDIT: Also works with Barrage. Stacks multiplicatively with Marked for Death.

Thanks Lactose, sorry to give you extra work.

And thanks for Plops for representing us at Blizzcon

I really feel that the on-the-run dps should be looked at. MM's are obviously doing good with both arcane shot - multi/aimed - and Chimera at their disposal.

But I really feel that this amount of shots is something that should be available to all speccs. Unlinking aimed shot and multi shot would be a way to go to fix this.

Spiry · 10/12/08, 9:05 AM

Originally Posted by Mikari

Anyone know how Aspect of the Viper is supposed to work? I was under the impression it returned a % of base mana equal to 2x base weapon speed, but the return is higher if I have an Intellect buff.

It's not base mana, it's maximum mana.

KraxisSingular · 10/12/08, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Akston

Still pretty nice and there are wand damage upgrades that don't have any actually stat upgrades that make a little more sense now. Nice to see wands be more than just stat sticks. Do you have any links to this information? Scaling may come eventually but at least this seems to be a step in the right direction for casters.

I'm pretty sure Druids and Paladins see it a little different (Shamans have Searing Totem). In the healing capacity they are now fighting Priests not only on healing, but also on a passive always present damage.

Bellin · 10/12/08, 10:21 AM

This means Scorpid will be first choice pet for PvP, and maybe good for raiding.

If we look at Tom's answer I think we will still have hard time in arenas. They will most likely leave us with almost all abilities on GCD. I don't see them taking aspects off GCD, after this answer. This will be biggest problem for BM hunters, with 3-6 secs needed to use their abilities (Intimidation, BW, RF, and Blood Fury for orcs).

Kajsa · 10/12/08, 12:56 PM

So do these changes to wanding mean that priests can be spamming heals but also auto-attacking a boss with JoW on it?
That is seriously imbalanced vs every other healing class's regen if so.

TMoe · 10/12/08, 1:30 PM

Doesnt JoW now provide Replenishment for the group in general and isnt "proccing" Mana the old fashioned way ?

Shandara · 10/12/08, 1:33 PM

Originally Posted by TMoe

Doesnt JoW now provide Replenishment for the group in general and isnt "proccing" Mana the old fashioned way ?

You are confusing Judgement of the Wise with Judgement of Wisdom.

ZulazeeluIcecrown · 10/12/08, 1:40 PM

Originally Posted by Akston

Still pretty nice and there are wand damage upgrades that don't have any actually stat upgrades that make a little more sense now. Nice to see wands be more than just stat sticks. Do you have any links to this information? Scaling may come eventually but at least this seems to be a step in the right direction for casters.

The only source I can give you for the information is the second class panel at BlizzCon. There may be an archive at WCRadio or it may be up on YouTube at some point. It was mentioned in passing that wanding now continues and doesn't constantly invoke a GCD, but I should have said it will function exactly like Auto Shot does now, rather than like Auto Shot will in 3.0. That is, casting will clip the auto-wand, so it's not quite as good as being able to spam heals while simultaneously getting JoW procs.

dssurge · 10/12/08, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by Kajsa

So do these changes to wanding mean that priests can be spamming heals but also auto-attacking a boss with JoW on it?
That is seriously imbalanced vs every other healing class's regen if so.

Almost certain you would have an absurd amount of targeting issues trying to keep the wand going as you heal. You would need to heal entirely with mouseover macros as you auto-wand the boss, and even then, I'm pretty sure we're not interpretting "off the GCD" correctly.

Wands, like ranged weapons have the .5 second shot time that is interrupted by casts, channels, and everything else. They're probably just getting rid of the absurdly annoying GCD after the wand actually fires which really hinders the ability to use wands for little bullshit like killing totems or tagging people for combat flags.

Trigun · 10/12/08, 4:04 PM

So with patch coming on tuesday,what spec are BM hunters leaning toward at level 70? For raid purposes

i'm thinking something along the lines of:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Still can't decide really >.< why i'm asking,to get some opinions n_n

flimflam · 10/12/08, 5:03 PM

Originally Posted by Trigun

So with patch coming on tuesday,what spec are BM hunters leaning toward at level 70? For raid purposes

i'm thinking something along the lines of:

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Still can't decide really >.< why i'm asking,to get some opinions n_n

Animal Handler looks like it might be a useless talent if your already hit capped, with pets now getting your hit.

i would go something like: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Trigun · 10/12/08, 5:21 PM

Originally Posted by flimflam

Animal Handler looks like it might be a useless talent if your already hit capped, with pets now getting your hit.

i would go something like: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

I keep reading yes and no on your pet getting your +hit,why i included it. 1 point in cobrastrikes seems like a waste.

Triper · 10/12/08, 5:40 PM

Friendly enhancement shaman just stopping in for 1 quick question.

How is marks comparing against BM and survival for 3.0 raiding?

I'm trying to convince one of the hunters in my guild to grab TSA so that I don't have to put points into unleashed rage. They're convinced that marks still sucks compared to BM.

I don't want him to substantially lower his DPS just so I can pick up 2 other talents

Mikari · 10/12/08, 5:53 PM

Originally Posted by Triper

Friendly enhancement shaman just stopping in for 1 quick question.

How is marks comparing against BM and survival for 3.0 raiding?

I'm trying to convince one of the hunters in my guild to grab TSA so that I don't have to put points into unleashed rage. They're convinced that marks still sucks compared to BM.

I don't want him to substantially lower his DPS just so I can pick up 2 other talents

Marks and BM are fairly close, Survival is a little behind. Though you'd want a Marks Hunter taking TSA anyway due to the glyph adding another 2% so 12% ap total.

Catalept · 10/12/08, 6:10 PM

Originally Posted by Daenerys

I did a double-take when I read that, too. I was under the impression that Freezing Arrow was intended to address PvP issues (which it clearly does not), and now they are saying it's for 5-mans?! I guess maybe they realized that it's pretty lackluster in PvP and so they are just tagging it as a PvE tool. Unfortunately it most certainly is not a good use of our trap cooldown in a 5-man as you point out...and wasn't Distracting Shot changed specifically to make trapping easier for us in instances already? Seems like they know they have a dog of a skill and they are just trying to think of some possible use for it. At this point Freezing Arrow doesn't address any of our needs, so I don't understand why it's even being included in LK.

The fact the Freezing Shot does one job, and does it badly (given the new Distracting Shot mechanics) just makes me facepalm. I didn't mind getting Misdirect at level 70 (although IMO it should be a level 10 skill), but as a DPS class I expect something a little more potent (or even just useful) at level 80 than a bad replacement for pre-trapping.

• Intermission · 10/12/08, 6:16 PM

Originally Posted by Mikari

Marks and BM are fairly close, Survival is a little behind. Though you'd want a Marks Hunter taking TSA anyway due to the glyph adding another 2% so 12% ap total.

mochunk · 10/12/08, 6:36 PM

Originally Posted by Trigun

I keep reading yes and no on your pet getting your +hit,why i included it. 1 point in cobrastrikes seems like a waste.

This is what I don't get also. There doesn't appeart to be a direct answer. I did many tests, but there was a huge loss in switching from animal handler, to 2/3 imp HM. Just on the lvl70 target dummies.

Only 2pc t5 from 1529 to 1281 dps over 6 min fight blowing cd's appropriately and using viper to get mana back when needed (only takes 10 seconds or so). With a cat specced 3/3 spiked collar and Spiders Bite, with Call of the Wild.

Granted I need a few more examples of both just to make sure something screwy didn't happen, but that seems really odd.

Shandara · 10/12/08, 6:36 PM

I did a few quick test on Focused Aim and pets:

A test runs without talents and gear: 4.5% missed melee and a very round 5% missed claws.
3/3 Focused Aim 2.09% from gear: 0 misses (out of ~1000 melee hits and ~500 claws)
3/3 Focused Aim 0% from gear: 15 missed melee hits (out of ~1000) and 24 missed claws (out of ~500).
EDIT: another 3/3 focused aim and 0% gear: 14 missed melee and 11 missed claws (out of 1000/500 again).

I can't really explain why the pets base attacks seemed to miss far less. Might be just the smallish sample.

If anyone can try it as well and confirm? Get 2% hit from gear, 3/3 Focused Aim. Let the pet hit until you fall asleep. If you get a miss then the theory is proven false at least.

Otherwise it seems pets gain the benefit of the talent as well.

Dafeaz · 10/12/08, 6:36 PM

Am I understanding right that, if you're at 142 hit, Animal Handler is a useless talent?

Also, as a BM hunter who plans to use a non-exotic pet for raiding, is the talent Beast Mastery superfluous for me? It seems to me that having Rabid and Ferocious Roar together would be a benefit for a wolf-using hunter (I know wolf is not TOP DPS, but it fits with what I do in my raid and I like the little buggers).

Rivkah · 10/12/08, 6:41 PM

I was not able to find any misses in my pet dummy tests when I was hit capped without having animal handler. If you are getting a dps loss without the talent did you check your pet miss rate and are you sure you were hit capped?

groma · 10/12/08, 7:02 PM

Something completely different:
"Does Glyph of Steady Shot work with other hunter's Sting?"

Ran some tests with a fellow hunter for the Glyph (increases SS damage by 10% when a Serpent Sting is up).

It does only work when your sting is up. Stings from other hunters do not increase your Steady Shot's damage. So keeping your Serpent Sting up is a must.

Invigoration:
In 10 and 25 man raids I found this to be completely worthless.

Judgement of Wisdom and Replenishment made me gain mana faster than I could spend it.
Never even had to use AotV either.

Kaejin · 10/12/08, 7:40 PM

In light of the Glyph of Steady Shot news, does using Glyph of Arcane Shot make Arcane worthwhile to use in a BM rotation? Will it take 3/3 Imp Arcane Shot to make it usable, or will that still not be enough?

Chul · 10/12/08, 7:57 PM

Originally Posted by Dafeaz

Am I understanding right that, if you're at 142 hit, Animal Handler is a useless talent?

For melee only pets, yes. For pets with spell specials, they should be able to take advantage of any extra hit you have up until 16% hit (or is that now 17% since I remember something about Blizzard removing the 1% spell miss chance). But even then, AH isn't that great of a DPS increase (according to the WotLK spreadsheet, it was ~7 DPS).

Mikari · 10/12/08, 8:01 PM

Originally Posted by groma

Something completely different:
"Does Glyph of Steady Shot work with other hunter's Sting?"

Ran some tests with a fellow hunter for the Glyph (increases SS damage by 10% when a Serpent Sting is up).

It does only work when your sting is up. Stings from other hunters do not increase your Steady Shot's damage. So keeping your Serpent Sting up is a must.

Invigoration:
In 10 and 25 man raids I found this to be completely worthless.

Judgement of Wisdom and Replenishment made me gain mana faster than I could spend it.
Never even had to use AotV either.

I've not noticed my Steady Shot hitting for less if another Hunters sting is up instead of my own. As for Invigoration I certainly notice it on fights where I can't use my pet, granted that is only currently Heigan so far.

Judgement of Wisdom is currently bugged, it doesn't have it's internal cooldown so it procs from every single hit, meaning you regen mana at an incredible rate and will never run out.