WotLK Talents & Abilities Discussion - Page 170

Aerynlore · 10/15/08, 3:31 PM

Originally Posted by mako

Where are you getting the idea that we need less hit than before? Iirc we still need 9% hit vs ?? mobs.
Focused Aim is not feasible to pick up in a non-MM level 70 spec, and if you're hit capped through gear already, it makes more sense to flip talent points into a more beneficial talent than try to redo gear. The only instances I'd consider swapping gems is on red sockets with orange gems, or for pieces of gear where you have no intention of matching all sockets, but you should be using 10 agi's for that instance anyway.

Focused Aim is feasible for any spec. Being in Tier 1 MM, which all three specs go into. There aren't many viable BM/SV builds or SV/BM builds. The biggest question about Focused Aim vs Lethal Shots is whether it is easier to get 3% hit or 3% crit strike on gear. If you are hit-capped without Focused Aim, then take a look at if you can get +3% crit from swapping out those +hit pieces for other gear slots.

I wouldn't say Focused Aim is not feasible, but it will require some juggling of gear to validate one way or the other.

essex23 · 10/15/08, 3:43 PM

so after all is said and done, and the dust is somewhat settling.....what would y'all say is the best PvE/Raid build for BM hunters? And is the steady shot / auto shot / kill command rotation still viable with the changes to steady shot?

Osse · 10/15/08, 3:49 PM

Originally Posted by Svifwin

Iv been trying to make a macro just for steady shot and chimera shot but i cannot seem to get /castrandom to work with chimera shot at all, it just keeps firing the steadys instead.

Any suggestions? =/

/castsequence reset=3 Steady shot, Steady shot, Steady Shot, Steady Shot, Steady Shot, Steady Shot, Chimera Shot

You will need windfury totem to make this one function properly as you can only cast 5 steady shots per chimera shot with just quiver and "normal" amount of haste in gear.

Dude · 10/15/08, 3:49 PM

I am not sure if this has been discussed yet in this thread but I have been using the following macro for my melee macro while in the beta and put it to test in the live last evening. It seems to work well with the changes to Mongoose Bite.

/cast Mongoose Bite
/cast Raptor Strike
/cast Wing Clip
/stopcasting

Bikiniwax · 10/15/08, 3:51 PM

Originally Posted by Belzi.ET

I did some napkin-math about this topic and came to the conclusion, that 3/3 Longevity, Readiness, BW-Glyph and 2/2 Rapid Killing are probably the most efficient way.
My build would look like this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft (if hit-capped talents from Focused Aim into Efficiency)

As I was unsure which abilities trigger GDC or not, I calculated 2 sec between abilities (GCD and human reaction). On live and macroed this rotation may be a little tigther.

0:00 - Beastial Wrath (CD ready at 1:04)
0:02 - Rapid Fire (CD ready at 3:02)
0:17 - Rapid Fire off
0:18 - BW off
1:04 - Bestial Wrath (CD ready at 2:08)
1:22 - BW off
2:08 - Beastial Wrath (CD ready at 3:12)
2:26 - BW off
-- around here Readiness will be ready in the following rotations, but it's not used immediately --
3:02 - Rapid Fire ready (just wait a moment to use it)
3:12 - Bestial Wrath ready and use it
3:14 - Rapid Fire
3:16 - Readiness (CD ready at 6:16)
3:29 - Rapid Fire off
3:30 - BW off

This makes up for:
BW + RF: 2 * 15 sec = 30 sec
full BW: 2 * 18 sec = 36 sec
part BW: 2 * 3 sec = 6 sec

Total BW-Uptime = 72 sec or a 34.3% uptime (almost half the timed hasted with RF)

Just a couple of questions.

1. So I assume you would pop Readiness right after rapid Fire at ~ 0:02 sec?
2. Isn't Readiness have a 5 min cooldown? How do you pop it again at 3:16?
3. Now that Blizz has annouced a DPS increase of ~10% for Exotic Pets, is the 51-point BM talent worth taking over Readiness (assuming lvl 80 of course)?

Hevanus · 10/15/08, 3:56 PM

Readiness is now a 3 minute cooldown: Readiness - Spell - World of Warcraft

mako · 10/15/08, 3:58 PM

Originally Posted by Aerynlore

Focused Aim is feasible for any spec. Being in Tier 1 MM, which all three specs go into. There aren't many viable BM/SV builds or SV/BM builds. The biggest question about Focused Aim vs Lethal Shots is whether it is easier to get 3% hit or 3% crit strike on gear. If you are hit-capped without Focused Aim, then take a look at if you can get +3% crit from swapping out those +hit pieces for other gear slots.

I wouldn't say Focused Aim is not feasible, but it will require some juggling of gear to validate one way or the other.

It doesn't make sense to pull from lethal shots. 1% crit rating requires a higher item budget to achieve than 1% hit rating (15.76 hit rating vs 22.08 crit rating for 1% ), making the crit talent superior, since both provide 1% per point, but the actual rating gain on crit is higher.

Bikiniwax · 10/15/08, 3:59 PM

Originally Posted by Dirty

What's the story on drums of battle? I used to have them macro'd with my berserker's call/TBW, but they don't seem to be activating anymore, is there a reason for this? Or have I just been unlucky with my gcd's?

Speaking of Drums, I thought they were still only affected the party but with a 2 minute Titanus cooldown where no one could use drums again.

Last night, I heard someone say that Drums are raid-wide now and with a 2 minute Titanus cooldown, you only need one Leatherworker in the raid for drums?

Is it party-wide or raid-wide?

UnLeashed · 10/15/08, 4:01 PM

Originally Posted by Bikiniwax

Just a couple of questions.

1. So I assume you would pop Readiness right after rapid Fire at ~ 0:02 sec?
2. Isn't Readiness have a 5 min cooldown? How do you pop it again at 3:16?
3. Now that Blizz has annouced a DPS increase of ~10% for Exotic Pets, is the 51-point BM talent worth taking over Readiness (assuming lvl 80 of course)?

1. Should be at ~0:03.5 (Rapid Fire is on GCD now?)
2. 3 min cooldown now
3. I would assume there would have to be testing done to see exactly how they plan on doing this, unless its just a flat ~10% DPS increase, similiar to Kindred Spirits.

Dude · 10/15/08, 4:01 PM

Originally Posted by Bikiniwax

Speaking of Drums, I thought they were still only affected the party but with a 2 minute Titanus cooldown where no one could use drums again.

Last night, I heard someone say that Drums are raid-wide now and with a 2 minute Titanus cooldown, you only need one Leatherworker in the raid for drums?

Is it party-wide or raid-wide?

It is supposed to be raid-wide according to what was put out at Blizzcon, however, I have not tested it yet in a raiding situation.

lugash · 10/15/08, 4:01 PM

Originally Posted by Aerynlore

Focused Aim is feasible for any spec. Being in Tier 1 MM, which all three specs go into. There aren't many viable BM/SV builds or SV/BM builds. The biggest question about Focused Aim vs Lethal Shots is whether it is easier to get 3% hit or 3% crit strike on gear. If you are hit-capped without Focused Aim, then take a look at if you can get +3% crit from swapping out those +hit pieces for other gear slots.

I wouldn't say Focused Aim is not feasible, but it will require some juggling of gear to validate one way or the other.

Critical Strike Rating costs 22.1 against the item budget whereas Hit Rating only costs 15.77. To substitute 3% Hit for 3% Crit is more costly against the item budget and likely would mean a better item which you would already be wearing. THAT'S why Focused Aim isn't feasible for non-MM specs at 70. Also, most T6 *equivalent* gear has +Hit on it, and therefore is unlikely to be substituted for anything worth switching in.

Edit: Below poster is correct, the way I worded it was poor, but the fact remains that +Hit is too easy to come by at T6 gear level.

Hevanus · 10/15/08, 4:18 PM

Originally Posted by mako

1% crit rating requires a higher item budget to achieve than 1% crit rating

I think you misworded that :x

Originally Posted by Bikiniwax

Speaking of Drums, I thought they were still only affected the party but with a 2 minute Titanus cooldown where no one could use drums again.

Last night, I heard someone say that Drums are raid-wide now and with a 2 minute Titanus cooldown, you only need one Leatherworker in the raid for drums?

Is it party-wide or raid-wide?

On 3.0.2 live there is no Tinnitus debuff; I haven't tested on beta but I heard at one point that it was removed. Also, it only affected party members last night when I tested, so I guess it's basically unchanged from 2.4 to 3.0.2.

I heard some speculation that drums will lose their effectiveness as you level from 70 to 80, making them obsolete, but I can't find the link atm.

Kiera · 10/15/08, 4:24 PM

Originally Posted by Female Tauren

Now that we don't need as much hit rating as before, I'm curious to see what everyone's replacing their hit gems with. For single socket items like shivering felspine and T6 boots, would a 10 ap/5 crit gem combined with the socket bonus and TSA beat a plain 10 agi gem?

I am probably an idiot but I thought that the cap was still at 142? I didn't see where that had been changed. . .

Skim · 10/15/08, 4:24 PM

Originally Posted by Hevanus

I heard some speculation that drums will lose their effectiveness as you level from 70 to 80, making them obsolete, but I can't find the link atm.

I thought there was talk that drums would affect level 79 and below players only. Thus negating any use at lvl 80. That may have changed.

Aerynlore · 10/15/08, 4:27 PM

Originally Posted by Hevanus

I heard some speculation that drums will lose their effectiveness as you level from 70 to 80, making them obsolete, but I can't find the link atm.

All of the drums are fixed values or ratings, so they will naturally lose their effectiveness as you level. Nothing needs to change on the drum themselves. Restoration's health and mana and War's AP and SP will eventually get outstripped. Battle's haste is rating, so it will have diminished returns come level 80.

Panic would be the only thing that wouldn't naturally de-scale, but it will probably just have a greater chance to fail against higher level targets.

Bikiniwax · 10/15/08, 4:29 PM

Originally Posted by Hevanus

I think you misworded that :x

On 3.0.2 live there is no Tinnitus debuff; I haven't tested on beta but I heard at one point that it was removed. Also, it only affected party members last night when I tested, so I guess it's basically unchanged from 2.4 to 3.0.2.

I heard some speculation that drums will lose their effectiveness as you level from 70 to 80, making them obsolete, but I can't find the link atm.

Actually I think you are on to something there. I seem to recall something about only lvl 80 drums giving the Tinnitus 2 minute debuff? I don't know.

Svifwin · 10/15/08, 4:33 PM

/castsequence reset=3 Steady shot, Steady shot, Steady Shot, Steady Shot, Steady Shot, Steady Shot, Chimera Shot

You will need windfury totem to make this one function properly as you can only cast 5 steady shots per chimera shot with just quiver and "normal" amount of haste in gear.

How much do you consider "normal"? 80haste rating? i wonder how well haste rating works with a MM spec, iv got enough haste gear for 20.88% haste rating while keeping 3k AP and 4pc T6, might have to check it out.

Tyranna · 10/15/08, 5:04 PM

Interesting tidbit I just found out. There seems to be at least some rudimentary AI built into pets at the moment. I was playing around leveling my alt hunter and picked up a gorilla. It has both smack (same as claw and bite now) and thunderclap, both costing 25 focus per cast. With both on auto-cast and attacking a single target, smack will cast every cooldown if there's enough focus. However, thunderstomp will not cast. Against multiple targets, thunderstomp will cast every cooldown in place of smack while smack will cast while thunderstomp is on cooldown.

I haven't tested with swipe, but I think it's safe to assume it'll work similarly.

flimflam · 10/15/08, 5:05 PM

[DELETED] useless post.

Zurai · 10/15/08, 5:43 PM

Originally Posted by lugash

Also, most T6 gear has +Hit on it, and therefore is unlikely to be substituted for anything worth switching in.

Errr... no, it doesn't. Hunter T6 is notorious for having almost no +hit.

Crackseed · 10/15/08, 5:53 PM

So far I'm enjoying the use of Arcane [with 3/3 Imp Arcane] over Steady [when applicable] - the mana cost is a bit more, given MM's talent that reduces steady cost, but I'm goofing off with the Arcane glyph too that refunds some of it's mana.

I'm still up in the air as I can just see alot of places Arcane Shot is still viable, especially with the ignoring armor damage application, though now that Aimed Shot is instant, Piercing Shots seems to get more attractive since it can buff 2 useable damage shots.

[just brainstorming here] - Just feels like there's alot more variety to shot rotations and skills you can use but as ever, I'm sure math will start to point us to the more optimal rotations - for the time being, I'm enjoying using a build where I fire more instants then having to thread so many steadies.

RIP Multishot though -_- With the Aimed shared CD, short of a multi-mob group, there's just really no use for it atm >_<

Rhoi · 10/15/08, 6:01 PM

I was playing around with the new pet talent trees last night and at at one point included Heart of the Phoenix. This showed up on my pets bar on autocast and in the spell book on auto cast, although whenever my pet died I had to wait to be out of combat to be able to actually open the spellbook, to get the darn thing to work. I tried all the possible combinations of spellbook on auto pet bar off etc and each time I had to manually go to the spellbook to cast it. When my pet dies, my pet bar disappears so I am unable to click on it from that. Anyone else having this problem?

Also, are castrandom macroes broken now? I was trying to be lazy while testing pet skills last night with a

/cast Steady Shot
/castrandom Explosive Shot
/castrandom Serpent Sting

macro but it would only cast steady. I dont remember reading about it anywhere but I dont tend to follow macro topics as easily as just information ones like this.

Hevanus · 10/15/08, 6:06 PM

Originally Posted by Rhoi

I had to wait to be out of combat to be able to actually open the spellbook (damn you blizz and you lockdown in combat)

When my pet dies, my pet bar disappears so I am unable to click on it from that. Anyone else having this problem?

You've got addons tainting your UI. Not being able to open the spellbook in combat and having your pet bar disappear are two of the most common symptoms.

Rhoi · 10/15/08, 6:17 PM

If thats also the case, why isnt autocast working anyway?

EDIT: discovered why i cant open the spellbook but that still defeats the purpose of autocast

Schmerz · 10/15/08, 6:18 PM

So i have a few questions..

1. is 50/11/0 still the cookie cutter raid spec for hunters in 3.0?
2. what should i macro with steady shot to increase my dps?
3. best bm pet. atm i have a wasp, but i've also heard scorpid and cat. which is the highest?

The World of Warcraft Armory
^^ my gear.

any help would be grateful

Schmerzy