Aoe cap definitely applies to volley. Just rounded up all of black morass and volleyed it, and ticks were reduced to critting for ~590 instead of 13-1400 (selfbuffed).
Pulled 9863 dps apparently, with 270k damage over less than 30 seconds :o Do mages and locks really do this much damage?
I can't speak for post-3.0.2, but I can't ever remember breaking around 5k DPS on my Mage, even during Hyjal trash, Felmyst and the like. Volley is far and away better than any AoE pre-3.0.2. From what I saw on the beta, Blizzard is almost exactly the same as Volley, critting for 1k-1.2k as Frost spec. The difference of course being Blizzard procs Frostbite, which causes a 80-90% crit rate from Shatter.
Gack. Too bad about the 3.0.3 changes to scorpid poison. I ran BT/SWP tonight as a BM spec (3/3 long, 1/3 CS, 5/5 KS, 1/2 GftT.) Max scorpid tick on the evening was 2089; the Scorpid did nearly 1300 dps on the Gorefiend and Brutallus fights. (I was in 4/4 t6 and wearing beast tamer's shoulders.) Heck, the little guy was even only level 69! The super-bug is definitely back to its old glory; too bad they're nerfing it.
Shot rotation would be a Chim -> Aimed -> 5x Steady
Even without the 22% crit I would assume putting those points in Barrage over Wild Quiver will yield more than 2% damage that WC is giving. I'll most def be playing around with this next patch.
edit: also looks like rake was toned down: Rake (Cat) focus cost reduced from 25 to 20. Damage lowered. (From 59-83 + 21-27 over 9 sec to 24-34 + 22-28 over 9 sec)
while some other pets had their abilities increased. more tuning to make everything "even" ?
Hmm, with both scorpid poison and rake receiving at least minor nerfs (very minor if base damage doesn't effect scaling), one of the more interesting questions that I've had is how well the spirit beast special stacks up, as even with a long duration a 5 stacking debuff on a ferocity pet for a BM hunter sounds like it could end up very good - the lack of a non-rare spawn so far on beta has made it hard to find much discussion of the exact mechanics though =/
Does anyone know if scorpid poison is "delayed" when it's refreshed? ie, if refreshed a split second before it was supposed to tick (based on the servers clock of course), would it still tick immediately, or does it take the full 2 seconds for the first tick? Seems likely that the spirit beast would share whatever mechanic scorpid poison has.
edit: also looks like rake was toned down: Rake (Cat) focus cost reduced from 25 to 20. Damage lowered. (From 59-83 + 21-27 over 9 sec to 24-34 + 22-28 over 9 sec)
while some other pets had their abilities increased. more tuning to make everything "even" ?
Well that, and making the exotic pet's more desirable in terms of the dps contribution they bring.
Did BT and MH last night and I nearly hit 3k on Anetheron (2997) with a 50/11/0 spec. This is what I have to say about Volley on Hyjal trash, "LOL". Wow, Volley has been SERIOUSLY buffed... Rake crit hit for 1.8k max, and Claw and melee crits range from 1.3-1.4
Was second behind better geared mage in MH, and I'm loving being a Hunter more than ever. Just still having problems of certain pet specials turning themselves auto-on... Growl prowl and cower seem to turn auto at random times.
one of the more interesting questions that I've had is how well the spirit beast special stacks up, as even with a long duration a 5 stacking debuff on a ferocity pet for a BM hunter sounds like it could end up very good - the lack of a non-rare spawn so far on beta has made it hard to find much discussion of the exact mechanics though =/
I have also wondered how the Spirit Beast does in DPS. Obviously it is a little hard to do, but someone out there must have gotten it and know a thing or two about Hunter mechanisms.
Just still having problems of certain pet specials turning themselves auto-on... Growl prowl and cower seem to turn auto at random times.
The only thing that's worked for me has been keeping those 3 on the bar so I can keep an eye on them. They don't seem to turn themselves back on once they're on the pet bar, it looks like the bug is confined to the abilities left in the spellbook.
Alright, I got some numbers now. First spec is 0/31/30, then 0/51/10. I ran three tests for each spec, with procs, hit cooldowns, used a pet (wolf), ran until OoM. Which generally meant about 40-50 auto and steadies per test, or about 150 of each shot per spec.
0/31/30
RAP = 2991
Averages Hit Crit
Auto Shot 779 1626
Steady Shot 865 1954
Serpent Sting 362
0/51/10
RAP = 2675 (I should note that for the first of the three tests I forgot
to put up TSA, so my AP was 2432)
Averages Hit Crit
Auto Shot 769 1613
Steady Shot 876 2143
Serpent 350
The only real difference I can see would be caused by Mark for Death. But it says "damage done by your shots," and not "damage done by ranged weapons/attacks" so would that even effect autoshot? Even if it did only affect steady, is that talent alone strong enough to completely offset the 300+ AP difference between the two specs? And like I said, the first test I did with 0/51/10 was done without TSA on, so those numbers should actually be even higher.
Hmm, with both scorpid poison and rake receiving at least minor nerfs (very minor if base damage doesn't effect scaling), one of the more interesting questions that I've had is how well the spirit beast special stacks up, as even with a long duration a 5 stacking debuff on a ferocity pet for a BM hunter sounds like it could end up very good - the lack of a non-rare spawn so far on beta has made it hard to find much discussion of the exact mechanics though =/
Does anyone know if scorpid poison is "delayed" when it's refreshed? ie, if refreshed a split second before it was supposed to tick (based on the servers clock of course), would it still tick immediately, or does it take the full 2 seconds for the first tick? Seems likely that the spirit beast would share whatever mechanic scorpid poison has.
Scorpid ticks on the same schedule no matter how close to the tick it's refreshed. Every 2 seconds, regular as clockwork. I will say, though, that it seems like there's no such thing as a refresh "simultaneous" with the last tick of a stack; every time I've seen a "zero time" difference between the last tick and the refreshing attack, the stack has fallen off. Of course, that may be due to the difference between server's "time of attack" and my local apparent "time of attack."
If scorpid still scales the same way, I have a hard time seeing anything supplanting it. It's just off-the-hook good. In a way, that's a good thing. BM personal damage is unimpressive, to say the least. I was routinely 6th-8th in *personal* damage on boss fights; and always first in combined damage because of the superbug. That's precisely the way a BM should play, IMO; not a terror personally, but pet of DOOM.
On a separate note, BM and MM are looking *superbly* balanced at the moment. Our MM hunter (whose gear is identical to mine for all practical purposes) was about 200 dps behind me all evening, which I think is *entirely* accounted for by the fact that he showed up with his old pvp ravager. If he'd been on time and grabbed a skettis cat before the raid like he planned, I think it would have been a dead heat.
I'm averaging between 3200 and 3400 on boss fights as MM, completely destroying BM hunters. Can someone post their BM spec and rotations as raid buffed in SWP and BT we are not seeing very good BM numbers.
I'm averaging between 3200 and 3400 on boss fights as MM, completely destroying BM hunters. Can someone post their BM spec and rotations as raid buffed in SWP and BT we are not seeing very good BM numbers.
Could you post your spec and/or any wws parses you might have? What were you using for your rotation?
I agree that timing KC with cooldowns could very well be more lucrative, but how is he preventing auto shot from firing?
I am sorry but I can't see the difference in dps based on where you place your /cast kill command macro, plz explain :-/
edit: ofc kc works better with more att power, but would wait 1 min for trinket to get rdy before using kc?
Another thing is people discuss if to use cat or scorpion as a bm and all I can say is that in 4tier6 swpguild the difference in spreadsheet was 170,69 in favor of the scorpion. Not much of a choice....
I'm averaging between 3200 and 3400 on boss fights as MM, completely destroying BM hunters. Can someone post their BM spec and rotations as raid buffed in SWP and BT we are not seeing very good BM numbers.
I'm seeing about 3450 from BM on brut and 3100 as surv on the same boss. Trying MM this next reset.
Perhaps the Barrage changes will be in effect by Tuesday night. I'll have to respec if they are as I'm not happy with my current setup. What kind of mana usage are you seeing in a raid Lilyana? I can't kill more than 4 mobs outside a raid as MM and its driving my crazy.
Also, totally unbuffed the scorpid poison was ticking for about 450. Fully buffed even after the nerf this will still provide a ton of dmg.
Scorpid ticks on the same schedule no matter how close to the tick it's refreshed. Every 2 seconds, regular as clockwork. I will say, though, that it seems like there's no such thing as a refresh "simultaneous" with the last tick of a stack; every time I've seen a "zero time" difference between the last tick and the refreshing attack, the stack has fallen off. Of course, that may be due to the difference between server's "time of attack" and my local apparent "time of attack."
If scorpid still scales the same way, I have a hard time seeing anything supplanting it. It's just off-the-hook good. In a way, that's a good thing. BM personal damage is unimpressive, to say the least. I was routinely 6th-8th in *personal* damage on boss fights; and always first in combined damage because of the superbug. That's precisely the way a BM should play, IMO; not a terror personally, but pet of DOOM.
I seem to recall a bug that was making longevity not affect spirit strike, but assuming that has been/will be fixed, spirit beasts will have up to 3 seconds to refresh their DoT depending on hunter spec - since only BM hunters can use them to begin with, we shouldn't have to worry about "zero time" refreshes with it. Seeing that MMO-Champion says the base damage on spirit strike got about doubled with the last beta build, it may not be scaling all that well, hard to tell without someone that has one on beta doing testing on it though... if it is scaling like scorpid poison though, it should be an interesting option, here's to hoping that they added some non-rare spirit beasts in this build as well :P
I was under the impression that currently spirit strike wasn't doing any damage on the initial hit, and that only the dot stack was actually doing damage. That is what all reports I've seen on it have said (can't test it myself naturally do to no spirit beast).
I am sorry but I can't see the difference in dps based on where you place your /cast kill command macro, plz explain :-/
edit: ofc kc works better with more att power, but would wait 1 min for trinket to get rdy before using kc?
Another thing is people discuss if to use cat or scorpion as a bm and all I can say is that in 4tier6 swpguild the difference in spreadsheet was 170,69 in favor of the scorpion. Not much of a choice....
If you are trying the guys macro that was posted, I do not believe that it will be the best usage of your BM rotation, and that is probably why you are not seeing any large number diffeence in the rotation.
Also, the /cast Kill Command Macro would probably, as was mentioned before, be better off as split into another macro for BM hunters, a bestial wrath/kc/trinket macro. ie (and maybe this could be improved upon for BM hunter usage):
Also, because of the gcd that now affects Rapid Fire, I do not see it as viable to insert into this macro because of the seconds wasted spamming it that it would take to get to go off. You would be better off assigning Rapid Fire a hotkey.
Can anyone clarify what kind of damage chimera shot does? I run some tests on the dummies and i was surprised to see that, in the combat log, it listed chimera's damage as full nature.
The tool tip suggests that it deals 125% weapon damage and a triggered effect of +X nature damage (in the case of the target being under the effect of serpent sting). In my combat log though, there wasn't any physical damage appointed to chimera.
And an other clarification if you please, again regarding chimera shot. It states that the triggered effect deals 40% of the damage done by serpent sting.
40% of the max damage done by serpent sting or 40% of the damage that the currently applied serpent sting has done? Should we fix our shot rotations so chimera would refresh the sting at the last possible moment?
Gack. Too bad about the 3.0.3 changes to scorpid poison. I ran BT/SWP tonight as a BM spec (3/3 long, 1/3 CS, 5/5 KS, 1/2 GftT.) Max scorpid tick on the evening was 2089; the Scorpid did nearly 1300 dps on the Gorefiend and Brutallus fights. (I was in 4/4 t6 and wearing beast tamer's shoulders.) Heck, the little guy was even only level 69! The super-bug is definitely back to its old glory; too bad they're nerfing it.
What were you doing, if anything, to assure it was up full time?
I was considering some sort of castsequence of a couple of steadies then scorpid sting, reset type of thing. I've tested with scorpid and just straight /cast with it but it seemed to be excessively refreshing probably wasting focus/gcd.
I'm considering bring a scorpid this time. My early tests on the dummy had it and cat even, both raid buffed, who knows. Cat was insanely buffed but from everyones experience the scorpid scales better (before nerf?).
it looks to me, that the pet talents which heal it on attack / growl attribute the heal-aggro to the hunter, not the pet. I cannot backup this claim by empirical data (btw: does omes work correctly work with hunters and their pets?), but i got attacked by mobs in scholo without having shot at them and without having mend pet active.
can someone confirm this?
on another note: for the purpose of farming scholo or other low level instances, the new pet (magic) resist mechanics are much weaker then the old (this, too, is purly my personal "observation").
also, again, on another note, it would probably be nice to have some pet theory crafting what block values, block chance etc. they have (for the 3 different pet "schools"). before patch, recount would not show pet blocks correctly ,IIRC.
Can anyone clarify what kind of damage chimera shot does? I run some tests on the dummies and i was surprised to see that, in the combat log, it listed chimera's damage as full nature.
The tool tip suggests that it deals 125% weapon damage and a triggered effect of +X nature damage (in the case of the target being under the effect of serpent sting). In my combat log though, there wasn't any physical damage appointed to chimera.
And an other clarification if you please, again regarding chimera shot. It states that the triggered effect deals 40% of the damage done by serpent sting.
40% of the max damage done by serpent sting or 40% of the damage that the currently applied serpent sting has done? Should we fix our shot rotations so chimera would refresh the sting at the last possible moment?
I believe it is indeed nature damage since that's what the combat log says unless you have any data to suggest otherwise... The spreadsheet also has it benefiting from Curse of Elements and similar debuffs on the initial hit, as well as the serpent sting damage.
The 40% damage is 40% of what a full serpent sting, from application to the last tick, would do. The suggestion of using chimera shot every cooldown or only to refresh serpent sting has been discussed before - with the conclusion being heavily in favor of using chimera shot every time it's up. You get no benefit from allowing more ticks of the sting before it's refreshed and the shot does a lot of damage, so there's no reason to wait.
I'm seeing about 3450 from BM on brut and 3100 as surv on the same boss. Trying MM this next reset.
Perhaps the Barrage changes will be in effect by Tuesday night. I'll have to respec if they are as I'm not happy with my current setup. What kind of mana usage are you seeing in a raid Lilyana? I can't kill more than 4 mobs outside a raid as MM and its driving my crazy.
Also, totally unbuffed the scorpid poison was ticking for about 450. Fully buffed even after the nerf this will still provide a ton of dmg.
I have two questions - first, what is your rotation like as bm (im assuming keeping up serpent sting in between steadies? Second, have you specced 3/3 longevity with a scorpid?
What were you doing, if anything, to assure it was up full time?
I was considering some sort of castsequence of a couple of steadies then scorpid sting, reset type of thing. I've tested with scorpid and just straight /cast with it but it seemed to be excessively refreshing probably wasting focus/gcd.
I'm considering bring a scorpid this time. My early tests on the dummy had it and cat even, both raid buffed, who knows. Cat was insanely buffed but from everyones experience the scorpid scales better (before nerf?).
Interesting. Scorpid was marginally superior to cat for me unbuffed on the training dummies, and just got even better with raid buffs.
The only thing I did to ensure stacks stayed up was take 3/3 longevity. Even though 2/3 longevity theoretically gets you down to at least 3 poison attempts per application (3.2 seconds), I was finding that if the first two attempts didn't work, the last wasn't always hitting in time to refresh the stack. 3/3 Longevity provided a definite uptime improvement. 3/3 Longevity ALSO seemed to aviod the "claw spam lockout" problem; if anything, poison attempts were locking out claw attempts, which is what I wanted. In return, I only had 1/3 in cobra strikes, but I thought it was worth it as the poison was definitely the scorpid's primary damage mechanism, not claw.
Anyhow, I didn't have to put the sting in a macro, or turn claw off at any time (as I did when testing unbuffed on the dummies.) I just put poison on autocast, claw on autocast, and let 'er rip.
Originally Posted by Cobrakai
I have two questions - first, what is your rotation like as bm (im assuming keeping up serpent sting in between steadies? Second, have you specced 3/3 longevity with a scorpid?
Heh, Cobra, I know you didn't ask me, but I saw numbers similar to Exodius (about 3300) and my rotation was steady spam only, and yes, I was 3/3 long with a scorp.
10/18/08, 2:08 AM
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