Is anyone else having any macro problems? Pre 3.0 I always use to combine my pet to follow my target on one of my steadyshot macros, whilst using another macro for keeping a pet on the boss while I take an add, Anetheron for example.
This uses to be kind of line I would add to such a macro, however my pet doesn't seem to want to follow my instruction on this particular macro, however combining it to an Arcane Shot will do the trick. Any suggestions?
Factual correction noted and appreciated. So it's potentially not a big deal to jam it on autocast, but I'm still a little amazed I'm even having to consider it. If it turns out that a hidden autocast growl isn't the problem, I may have to move that point out of bloodthirsty for a TPS comparison, though again I'd be amazed if that were producing enough threat to be an issue. Maybe I just need to beat my OT with a stick.
You should definitely be allowing Cower to autocast and if Growl isn't highlighted on your petbar then it isn't casting. Cats do a significant amount of DPS now, especially if you have points in Cobra Strikes and your crits are giving your cat a good surplus of focus. Cower will help a lot in reducing your pets threat, but even then your tanks should not have any issues maintaining enough TPS to offset a pet's TPS. The only time I can think of this ever being a factor is on an initial pull, but with MD on a 30 CD your tanks should be miles ahead of the pack whith in the first 30 sec or so of a fight. Pets are not like rogues that have high burst damage.
On a fight like Twins, sounds like either your OT needs to work on gaining higher TPS or you should have another hunter (or rogue) MD the OT in the beginning of the fight without overtaking the MT of course.
Is anyone else having any macro problems? Pre 3.0 I always use to combine my pet to follow my target on one of my steadyshot macros, whilst using another macro for keeping a pet on the boss while I take an add, Anetheron for example.
This uses to be kind of line I would add to such a macro, however my pet doesn't seem to want to follow my instruction on this particular macro, however combining it to an Arcane Shot will do the trick. Any suggestions?
I have never seen a line like that added into a shot macro, so I can't say why the /petattack command isn't working. Have you ever considered macroing your /petattack in with your Hunter's Mark? I assume you are using HM everytime you attack a target?
I have a separate keybind right next to my steady shot key that I use contently to maneuver my pet and apply HM instantly. On fights like KJ were I need to handle adds between DPSing the boss I either use a focus macro (i.e. Shield Orbs) that targets the add and adds HM or I just DPS the add down quickly w/o using HM and my pet never leaves KJ. In fact, last night was my first time back on KJ since the patch and DPSing the spawns was so much easy with Volley and my cat never left KJ once the entire fight.
Actually a relief that nothing cna be done with it, as there's one less thing to worry about. Only thing now is to make our theorycraft take resistances into account for these shots.
Edit: So I did some napkin math on Efficiency in the EU forums because I was asked why I did not pick it up over f.ex. Kindred Spirits (If you want to read my horrible napkin math it's found here: WoW-Europe.com Forums -> 3.0.2 - Suggested Raiding Builds).
Am I wrong in thinking that it is a horrible talent now with the new AotV? As far as I can see unless the fights are really long or you're really unlucky in relation to fight duration and oom time, the only thing you save is a few seconds shorter AotV.
At the moment, until JoW is (ever) fixed Efficiency is a moot point.
Some other things to consider are A.) Aspect mastery is only a 40% damage reduction and B.) AP scales incredibly well in a raid now with buffs like Trueshot Aura, Battle Shout, Abom's Might, Unleashed Rage, Call of the Wild, etc... Not that I think crit is to be ignored, but we also have raid wide LoP and Rampage.
EDIT: Another thought after I was looking at the questions the guy posted for you. He mentioned his lower crit rating and it seemed like he was suggesting Mortal Shots would increase that rating. I seems he might not understand that Mortal shots is a bonus to crit damage vs.Lethal Shots.
Okay so I dont know if this has been talked about here, and if it has I do apologize. But I was working my rotation and notcied aimed shot and multi sot are both on the same cooldown, but aimed costs less mana. I know that before the patch multi shot was the bread and butter of the marksman build, but now I have my doubts. I have come to the conslusion that I can save 6 points by using aimed shot instead of multi and I can also save mana. The points come from not speccing into barrage and improved barrage, This allowed me to gather up wild quiver and a few other usefull abilities such as peircing shots. Now this all may change if they have barrage affect aimed shot, but as for now this is what im going with. Id love to get yall's opinion on this build and maybe hash it out if this is worth it or not. (Mind you this is all PVE)
Also a little side bar, the points spent in wild quiver and then piercing shots also seemed to boost my damage while allowing me to stay in hawk longer because auto shot fires regarless of your rotation (im noticing around 65 percent of my damage comes from auto and im still staying top dps on BT fights). Basically ive gone with a 2/57/7 (at lvl 70 of course) With this i can pick up piercing, wild quiver, go for the throat, and even go into survival instincts. And instead of using multi in my rotation ive just replaced with it aimed for boss fights.
Well I think ive explained my thoughts and like I said if I have nobbed it up would love to know but as for now i think this works best.
I am not sure you should be using Multi OR Aimed. The current spreadsheet agrees, inserting either is a mana-cost increaser, and depending on your ability to weave them effectively (and latency), either an extremely minor dps increase, or an actual dps downgrade. This is without 4piece T6 and with barrage, so there shouldn't really be any doubt. My current rotation is simply: serpent sting once, Chimera on cooldown, all other GCDs are steady shot.
Not taking Barrage, having the 4piece bonus, or taking improved steady-shot are all going to push you even further away from using Multi.
Okay so I dont know if this has been talked about here, and if it has I do apologize. But I was working my rotation and notcied aimed shot and multi sot are both on the same cooldown, but aimed costs less mana. I know that before the patch multi shot was the bread and butter of the marksman build, but now I have my doubts. I have come to the conslusion that I can save 6 points by using aimed shot instead of multi and I can also save mana. The points come from not speccing into barrage and improved barrage, This allowed me to gather up wild quiver and a few other usefull abilities such as peircing shots. Now this all may change if they have barrage affect aimed shot, but as for now this is what im going with. Id love to get yall's opinion on this build and maybe hash it out if this is worth it or not. (Mind you this is all PVE)
Also a little side bar, the points spent in wild quiver and then piercing shots also seemed to boost my damage while allowing me to stay in hawk longer because auto shot fires regarless of your rotation (im noticing around 65 percent of my damage comes from auto and im still staying top dps on BT fights). Basically ive gone with a 2/57/7 (at lvl 70 of course) With this i can pick up piercing, wild quiver, go for the throat, and even go into survival instincts. And instead of using multi in my rotation ive just replaced with it aimed for boss fights.
Well I think ive explained my thoughts and like I said if I have nobbed it up would love to know but as for now i think this works best.
I will not attempt to theorize on the MM build, since I have not spent anytime exploring it, but here are a few things to keep mind with recent/upcoming changes (current beta build 9095).
Glyph of Trueshot Aura - While your Trueshot Aura is active, you have 10% increased critical strike chance on your Aimed Shot. (Old - Increases the attack power bonus of Trueshot Aura by an additional 2%.)
This glyph change seems to be an attempt entice more Aimed Shot use. Also, Barrage and Imp Barrage does effect Aimed Shot now (upcoming patch).
Question, but your leaving out arcane shot in there as well? I mean with talents like survival instincts and improved arcane shot dosent that boost the damage of arcane enough where its well worth the mana, plus right now with current raid buffs and talents im critting with my aimed for well over 3k. ( mind you raid buffed im around 3500 ap without procs and 40% crit). So i guess im asking if you are saying to only weave steady, and chimera (of course after stinging the target with serpent to begin with)?
Oh and mind you that im using the glyphs that decrease aimed and arcane mana usage.
I was aware of the glyph change and the barrage change and i think I will spec into those when the time comes, but Im not certian when the next patch will be.
Maybe I have some weird gear or something, but Steady just flat out hits harder than Arcane. It also hits harder than Multi and Aimed if I don't take Barrage.
Maybe I have some weird gear or something, but Steady just flat out hits harder than Arcane. It also hits harder than Multi and Aimed if I don't take Barrage.
Do you have 4pc T6 bonus? Also, what is your spec? Need more information.
I also noticed something new past few days. Serpent Sting still gives us mana back with Viper on, but only on the first tick. Can anyone confirm this? I am pretty sure it gave mana back on every tick in raids before. Now combat log only shows mana regen on first tick and then nothing.
All attacks will cause Aspect of the Viper to return mana. The difference, though, is that period based damage (Serpent Sting, traps, etc) only work on the first tick. Furthermore, Volley doesn't appear to be working with Viper and that is, understandably, a good thing as it would be a mana restoring phenom.
Originally Posted by Mattaos
I will not attempt to theorize on the MM build, since I have not spent anytime exploring it, but here are a few things to keep mind with recent/upcoming changes (current beta build 9095).
Glyph of Trueshot Aura - While your Trueshot Aura is active, you have 10% increased critical strike chance on your Aimed Shot. (Old - Increases the attack power bonus of Trueshot Aura by an additional 2%.)
This glyph change seems to be an attempt entice more Aimed Shot use. Also, Barrage and Imp Barrage does effect Aimed Shot now (upcoming patch).
It will be interesting to see how Blizz balances this out and what their exact thought process is. Right now, Multi-Shot is a complete waste in any sort of rotation as it is mana intensive and you lose the added DPS bonus on single target fights. This means that Barrage and Improved Barrage are less useful due to the above and the fact that AoE fights are not likely to make up the bulk of raiding (LOTS of gauntlets to come in the expansion).
With the upcoming addition of Aimed Shot being added to Barrage and Improved Barrage, it feels like Blizzard is accepting the fact that Multi-Shot has joined the company of Arcane Shot in being useless except in the most specific of situations. BUT, they have gone to great lengths, to date, to prevent Aimed Shot from making a come back to Hunter rotations. I wonder if they're just not seeing the up and coming inclusion of Aimed Shot in a MM rotation OR if they've just accepted the fact that PvP usage only is unacceptable and are just turning a blind eye to it/thinking that it is now acceptable after the damage nerfs.
Sorry to inconvenience you, but i saw you say that there was mentioning of why 3/3 Careful Aim and 2/5 Mortal was better than 5/5 mortal. I looked for about 30 minutes for that portion but was unable to locate it.
I understand that mortal only affects specials, but my class lead seems to think that 5/5 is better. Is there any math or testing to support that CA is better. My gear is very equivalent to yours so I think I get a little over 300ap fully buffed.
I was hoping I could just have a link to that because i'm interested in reading up on it.
Sorry to inconvenience you, but i saw you say that there was mentioning of why 3/3 Careful Aim and 2/5 Mortal was better than 5/5 mortal. I looked for about 30 minutes for that portion but was unable to locate it.
I understand that mortal only affects specials, but my class lead seems to think that 5/5 is better. Is there any math or testing to support that CA is better. My gear is very equivalent to yours so I think I get a little over 300ap fully buffed.
I was hoping I could just have a link to that because i'm interested in reading up on it.
Thanks,
-Splint
Tell your class lead this (simple statistics):
Look at your overall shot rotation in a given fight on a WWS fight. Look at how many specials you fired, how many autos you fired, and how many specials critted. THEN, ask him if s/he thinks that added damage to ALL shots, specials or not, is better in the long run vs the loss of 18% critical damage bonus on a relatively few number of attacks.
I do not have 4p T6. I'm currently 0/51/10 with barrage (for volley foolishness, not multi-shot), no Imp Steady Shot, no Imp Arcane, no Piercing Shots. The extra 3 points in Survival are for increased range (something I value more than the ~1.5% dps any of those other talents would provide). I'm basing my actual numbers comments here on the spreadsheet, and now that it's been called into question, I'll definitely have to find a way to test this.
Raid buffed, my shots average (including crits):
Steady Shot - 2012
Multi-Shot - 2219 (1982 w/o barrage)
Aimed Shot - 2092 (will be higher with barrage when it is fixed)
Arcane Shot - 1942 (2233 If I spec'd Improved Arcane)
Given this, inserting Multi-Shot in my rotation would bring my spreadsheet dps from 3161 to 3166. Improved Arcane would bring me to 3179.
So, like I said, they hit a tiny bit harder when talented, but that only provides a DPS increase if they fit in perfectly and you have enough mana (granted not a problem at this point). However, not only do you need to complicate your rotation, you have to spend the talents in the first place. I'm spec'd Barrage for trash at the moment, so if I were to be completely optimal, I would use Multi for that extra 5 dps. However, if I were being completely optimal, I wouldn't have barrage in the first place, since even Imp Hunter's Mark, a horrible talent, provides more dps that using Multi-shot with barrage. Imp Arcane Shot is better, but still a worse investment than Imp Steady Shot, and almost exactly the same as Piercing Shots.
4p T6 and/or the Steady Shot glyph when it's available will make the comparison incredibly clear in favor of Steady Shot.
Sorry to inconvenience you, but i saw you say that there was mentioning of why 3/3 Careful Aim and 2/5 Mortal was better than 5/5 mortal. I looked for about 30 minutes for that portion but was unable to locate it.
I understand that mortal only affects specials, but my class lead seems to think that 5/5 is better. Is there any math or testing to support that CA is better. My gear is very equivalent to yours so I think I get a little over 300ap fully buffed.
I was hoping I could just have a link to that because i'm interested in reading up on it.
Thanks,
-Splint
Without even posting any hard testing numbers the mechanics of the 2 talents are evident enough. Mortal Shots is in fact only effecting specials and in the case of BM hunters...Steady Shot. So, currently the bonus from Mortal Shots is solely being received from our Steady Shots. So far, from my own testing on dummies and in raids weaving another shot in (Arcane Shot) is delaying the synergy of Steady Shot and Auto Shot, since that other shot is eating a GCD and causing the cast time of the next Steady to restart.
Careful Aim is giving us 100% of Intellect, whcih for most hunters is a 200+ to 300+ RAP increase. Keep in mind the scaling that begins to take place with this talent when buffed with AI, Kings and GotW. We are increasing our AP substantially with just 3/3 CA and raid buffs.
AP is a much more desirable stat since it is scaling so well with raid-wide buffs like TSA, Abom's Might, Unleashed Rage, Battle Shout, etc... which also increases the total damage done for normal hits and critical hits for all shots. The benefit from AP is spread across all your shots at a much higher benefit that in TBC.
Mortal Shots was a must have for TBC since A.) Careful Aim was unreachable for a BM build B.) Careful Aim was not worth taking anyway and C.) Mortal Shots affected Auto Shots. With Auto Shots firing independently, the MS crit bonus is lost on almost half (and in some cases half) of your shots during a fight.
EDIT: Bovii beat me to it and with a much simpler explanation.
You should definitely be allowing Cower to autocast and if Growl isn't highlighted on your petbar then it isn't casting. Cats do a significant amount of DPS now, especially if you have points in Cobra Strikes and your crits are giving your cat a good surplus of focus. Cower will help a lot in reducing your pets threat, but even then your tanks should not have any issues maintaining enough TPS to offset a pet's TPS. The only time I can think of this ever being a factor is on an initial pull, but with MD on a 30 CD your tanks should be miles ahead of the pack whith in the first 30 sec or so of a fight. Pets are not like rogues that have high burst damage.
On a fight like Twins, sounds like either your OT needs to work on gaining higher TPS or you should have another hunter (or rogue) MD the OT in the beginning of the fight without overtaking the MT of course.
Just gonna throw something out there on the subject of big pet aggro and Growl. Since the patch, and i even experienced this on PTR, whenever i logon or dismount, my pet will have random abilities not on my bar turned on Autocast. Prowl, Cower, and yes, Growl are all culprits. It's possible that Growl did indeed have itself turned on during his fight with the Twins and he just had no idea.
Just gonna throw something out there on the subject of big pet aggro and Growl. Since the patch, and i even experienced this on PTR, whenever i logon or dismount, my pet will have random abilities not on my bar turned on Autocast. Prowl, Cower, and yes, Growl are all culprits. It's possible that Growl did indeed have itself turned on during his fight with the Twins and he just had no idea.
True, this is a known bug and only combated currently by placing pet talents on the petbar to manually toggle them. From reading his post though, I assumed he had the talent on his petbar since he mentioned it was not highlighted. I guess my assumption could have been to lenient and he saw the talent not highlighted in his spellbook and thought all was fine.
For me personally, I keep Rabid, Prowl, Growl and Cower on my petbar. I leave Claw, Rake (cat) and Dash in my spellbook toggled on at all times.
[...] Right now, Multi-Shot is a complete waste in any sort of rotation as it is mana intensive and you lose the added DPS bonus on single target fights. This means that Barrage and Improved Barrage are less useful due to the above and the fact that AoE fights are not likely to make up the bulk of raiding (LOTS of gauntlets to come in the expansion).
With the upcoming addition of Aimed Shot being added to Barrage and Improved Barrage, it feels like Blizzard is accepting the fact that Multi-Shot has joined the company of Arcane Shot in being useless except in the most specific of situations. BUT, they have gone to great lengths, to date, to prevent Aimed Shot from making a come back to Hunter rotations. I wonder if they're just not seeing the up and coming inclusion of Aimed Shot in a MM rotation OR if they've just accepted the fact that PvP usage only is unacceptable and are just turning a blind eye to it/thinking that it is now acceptable after the damage nerfs.
Barrage and Imp. Barrage are in my current level 80 spec simply because they allow me to realistically use Aimed Shot in my rotations. +12% damage and +22% Crit (assuming TSA Glyph until Chim shot or another more useful glyph is added) to Aimed Shot is more than enough to justify the inclusion of Aimed Shot in a PvE rotation, even if you're using it in a location that is impossible for it to use Imp. Steady Shot procs. The reason I feel I can get these abilities is because of the currently broken JoW and my hatred towards Wild Quiver, but ultimately I think it might actually work out to more DPS depending on how much of my damage Aimed Shot ends up accounting for.
Allowing me to take Multi-Shot entirely off my bars in PvE thanks to the 100% push back prevention to Volley, which as mentioned a few times, is fucking incredible (even though Volley will probably be nerfed, although I love being #1 DPS on AOE trash,) really feels like they intend for Volley to be our go-to multi-target ability. Sure, you might lose a little bit of DPS if there are exactly 3 targets, but overall it's worth the sacrifice. Multi-Shot's cone has been made smaller, or at least it feels so, since 3.0.2 and I believe it's in an effort to reduce the effectiveness of Multi-Shot ignoring LoS in Arenas which again lowers it's usefulness.
As much as I want to pick a side of the fence to be on, it's going to be hard to choose between specific skill and talent allocations until the talents are finalized and we can start pulling numbers. Everything we can theory-craft between now and then feels fruitless, but as it's currently shaping up, I would honestly say they're trying to make Aimed Shot a viable PvE DPS ability for MM Hunters.
edit: Still looking at the prospect of going 11 BM over Barrage entirely, again, only time will tell. If this is the case, Aimed Shot will probably be another PvP ability I can skip entirely.
Hey guys, I've noticed with my crab that while claw is on autocast, it triggers the 1.5s GCD and thus it makes it very hard for me to using pin or roar of sacrifice.
I have noticed however that intervene doesn't have this problem since the pet can intervene while in the GCD of a claw. However, I wish blizzard would do the same with pin and roar of sacrifice as these are all on demand skills.
The way it is currently, I have to turn off claw, cast pin, then turn claw back on. Even though I have a macro to do this, it requires 2 button presses and is kinda inconvenient.
Does anyone have any opinions on this? =P
I know that blizzard removed focus costs from almost all the pet special abilities since people were complaining that due to the focus dump skill, no pet could ever have the energy to perform their special abilities without the hunter first disabling the auto cast. However with the special attacks on the GCD, it is still pretty annoying =P.
What I did to solve the auto cast problem and the problem of just way more than 4 pet abilities, was make macros for all my pet abilities, except each families special, each families focus dump, and growl and cower. I keep those 4 on the action bar, and have my macros handy for changing them on/off autocast, been experimenting with a script to run, or an addon to either show the auto cast border on these macros, or some other way of displaying it for easy toggling for spells that don't fit on here (taunt for tenacity, call of the wild for ferocity etc.)
On another notes, does anyone know when aspect of the dragonhawk is supposed to hit beta realms, been hoping to pvp with it and see how noticeable the difference is.
Actually a relief that nothing cna be done with it, as there's one less thing to worry about. Only thing now is to make our theorycraft take resistances into account for these shots.
Edit: So I did some napkin math on Efficiency in the EU forums because I was asked why I did not pick it up over f.ex. Kindred Spirits (If you want to read my horrible napkin math it's found here: WoW-Europe.com Forums -> 3.0.2 - Suggested Raiding Builds).
Am I wrong in thinking that it is a horrible talent now with the new AotV? As far as I can see unless the fights are really long or you're really unlucky in relation to fight duration and oom time, the only thing you save is a few seconds shorter AotV.
I did very similar napkin math a few pages back, it's very poor and I was immediately shouted down on a 90 second OOM time. Raid buffs are pretty amazing, at 80 you're getting 214mp5 from oil+BoW+Mana Spring, about 300mp5 from JoW and 150mp5 from replenishment, that makes a massive difference to oom time, and amplifies the difference efficiency makes to OOM time. This pushes an MM hunter using just chimera+steady to about 220s OOM time, which is enough that you're not even going to need to completely refill your mana bar most of the time. I've got a simulator ramdomly selecting fight durations between 2.5 and 7.5 minutes, and it's telling me my average AotV uptime with imp steady as my only mana-save talent is 2.5%. That's a hard cap of ~1.25% dps increase that 5/5 efficiency can give, and that assumes it sends you infinite, which it doesn't. It's a very bad talent in efficient rotations. Even if i throw aimed shot into the rotation efficiency still looks pretty bad.
On barrage, according to my the simulations I've run, barrage + imp barrage are necessary to make it not a DPS loss, but they achieve this. I'm seeing the highest single-target DPS spec skipping them, but the margin between a spec with them and a spec without is sufficiently small that you can start arguing that the utility of a barrage spec outweighs the small single target dps gain. I reckon I'm going to end up running Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
I've got a simulator ramdomly selecting fight durations between 2.5 and 7.5 minutes, and it's telling me my average AotV uptime with imp steady as my only mana-save talent is 2.5%. That's a hard cap of ~1.25% dps increase that 5/5 efficiency can give, and that assumes it sends you infinite, which it doesn't. It's a very bad talent in efficient rotations. Even if i throw aimed shot into the rotation efficiency still looks pretty bad.
That seems shockingly bad for 5 talent points, to me that sounds like Efficiency should be changed to a +int talent, to at least make it benefit from the AP bonus of Careful Aim. Perhaps with less talent points as well.
Perhaps something along the lines of "Increases your total intellect with 3/6/10%".
At least it should have some change that would increase it's utility and/or damage.
10/21/08, 10:25 AM
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