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07/22/08, 12:55 PM
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#436
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Don Flamenco
Blood Elf Hunter
Dragonmaw
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Originally Posted by Ivaldi
If it does more damage, it's worth the extra management. I will learn whatever crazy shot rotation it takes to maximize my DPS.
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You'd need chimera + serpent sting to out damage two steady shots for it to be worth it.
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07/22/08, 12:55 PM
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#437
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Shandara
That Volley change is a welcome one, although it seems quite powerful. In the movie it hits for 422 and crits for 722.. every second.
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Not sure how it scales, but the base damage for Volley has been upped as well: from 105 at Rank 4 in TBC to 240 at Rank 4 in WotLK (actually all of the ranks have been upgraded).
TBC: Volley - Spell - World of Warcraft
WotLK: Volley - Spell - World of Warcraft
There are no new ranks listed, but I imagine there will be one since they come around about every 10 levels. It will be nice to be able to contribute a little bit more in AOE situations. As it is I find running in and dropping an explosive trap to be more effective than Volley.
Another change I haven't seen noted: Disengage has been buffed!
TBC: Disengage - Spell - World of Warcraft (Threat -545)
WotLK: Disengage - Spell - World of Warcraft (Threat -1090)
Last edited by Gleithan : 07/22/08 at 1:05 PM.
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07/22/08, 12:59 PM
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#438
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Banned
Blood Elf Hunter
Runetotem (EU)
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Originally Posted by mako
IHM is 110 ap at 70, it's really not as significant as people make it out to be. Maybe you should go SV since your raid needs EW too? >_>
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There's a couple reason for that. I'm somewhat low on Agi for that. I range in the low 500s, not enough to make me worth it. At the same time I am the single hardest hitting char in our guild at this time (unless it is MH trashwaves), that loss would be quite significant. Further Given how I ache from mana troubles even now, I wouldn't like to think of how I would fare as Surv. Suffice to say I am certain it would be a loss to change to Surv.
110 AP is not insanely much, I agree, but it is not insignificant either. It is easily maintained and requires no special gearing. And in WotLK it will be 300 AP. That will undoubtedly be less compared to 300 now (duh), but I'm not willing to say a small personal benefit overshadows 300 AP for how many melee you have (don't forget that for Bears and Warriors it is a direct threat benefit). 20% extra AP from Hawk is 60 AP for me... So if we have 7 melee classes (discounting Pallytanks) there is an overall gain of 2100 AP. Of course they scale differently with AP, but I am certain that 2040 AP over different classes will beat the 5 points I get for my pet/exotic pet.
One also has to look at the different scaling. IHM goes from 110 to 300, Aspect of the Hawk goes from 155 to 300. Obviously more weight is being put on Hunter's Mark compared to the Aspect., even more when we consider the full bonus of 1200 AP. Only with full Aspect Mastery will the scaling return to the same comparative values as in TBC.
[Changing subjects]
The Volley change combined with all the new AoE effects (Rogues getting AoE???), I think it is a near certainty that WotLK will contain massive amounts of AoE encounters. Espceially in 5-mans, or else not all would need a new AoE strength.
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07/22/08, 1:13 PM
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#439
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Hunter
Doomhammer
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Originally Posted by Gleithan
Not sure how it scales, but the base damage for Volley has been upped as well: from 105 at Rank 4 in TBC to 240 at Rank 4 in WotLK (actually all of the ranks have been upgraded).
TBC: Volley - Spell - World of Warcraft
WotLK: Volley - Spell - World of Warcraft
There are no new ranks listed, but I imagine there will be one since they come around about every 10 levels. It will be nice to be able to contribute a little bit more in AOE situations. As it is I find running in and dropping an explosive trap to be more effective than Volley.
Another change I haven't seen noted: Disengage has been buffed!
TBC: Disengage - Spell - World of Warcraft (Threat -545)
WotLK: Disengage - Spell - World of Warcraft (Threat -1090)
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I used to like Disengage for Azuregos way back when... brings back memories. It definitely will be nice to contribute more in AOE situations, or at least not fall as far behind warlocks on the meters in these situations.
Edit: I'm a murloc, interesting.
Last edited by Zupkuck : 07/22/08 at 1:13 PM.
Reason: I'm a murloc?
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07/22/08, 1:17 PM
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#440
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Hunter
Lightbringer
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Originally Posted by Reebz
I too am slightly unhappy at the lack of +hit in Ferocity.
Also not happy with the Great Resistance talent: 3 points for 9%? Not that great to me. I was quite happy to spec my specific pets for each type of raid (ie: Fire/Shadow for MH). This blanket-resistance talent seems to be a nerf in the long run, "jack of all resistances and master of none".
Cunning seems to be an odd tree, it is utility in the latter stages but look at Tier4! Pure DPS!
Blizzard seems somewhat confused, in my opinion. While they're struggling to make each tree "viable", I believe they might just make each tree as bland as the other with only a few sprinkles on top to give the illusion of "choice".
Lick Your Wounds - a healing talent - in the Ferocity tree? I don't agree. If I want survivability, let me spec Cunning. If I want to pump out massive numbers, then thats my choice if I want to be a glass cannon.
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While I don't know I agree exactly with your assessment of cunning -- I don't describe tier 4 as DPS other than Feeding Frenzy -- I do agree that the pet trees are rather muddled. In fairness, there are certain things that need to be available in each tree. I'd be rather upset if my pet couldn't learn to dash/dive. However, I don't think they did an excellent job of arraying these trees. Among raiders, regardless of which tree they're considering, who isn't putting all their tier 3 points into Avoidance? Aside from maybe Intervene, is there anything worth coming back for?
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Originally Posted by Gokey
I personally like how they did all 3 trees. Do you really want a clear-cut obvious trees for maximum DPS? A lot of fun in this game is playing with things and finding what's best for your playstyle. I really like that there is 2 viable DPS trees, and I can even see some use for the Tenacity tree in PvP (on top of it's solo'ing and potential tanking applications). I can't wait to try them all out.
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Personally, I don't view there as being two DPS trees. I see a tanking tree, a DPS tree, and a tree put there for the explicit purpose of returning 40% mana to your group. Cunning is good for NOTHING else, as far as I'm concerned. I could understand if it was screwball back-door DPS, but only Feeding Frenzy meets that description. Maybe I'll change my tune when I find out how Wolverine Bite actually works, but as I'm reading the tooltips, cunning is worthless, and -- worse still -- doesn't even seem to have an identity. Survival is our utility tree. I don't see cunning as the pet's.
As others have commented on the lack of percentage points for cunning coefficients, there has got to be something we're missing. It's just simply deficient in every way imaginable. Anemic, even.
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Originally Posted by "KraxisSingular
As mentioned earlier by myself and a few others, the 5 extra points of Beast Mastery isn't needed for any tree really.
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And this, of course, is the other apparent failing of the pet trees. If they're going to give us 5 extra points for BM, they need to make there be decisions non-BM's have to make that BM can just say, "eh, I'll get them all." Right now, there isn't that. As a survivalist, I can pick what I want with 16 and be happy. Would I like other shinies? Sure, but I don't need them. Right now, BMT is looking rather superfluous, especially with how poor Aspect Mastery is looking.
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07/22/08, 1:27 PM
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#441
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Don Flamenco
Blood Elf Hunter
Dragonmaw
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Originally Posted by Arcazua
Personally, I don't view there as being two DPS trees. I see a tanking tree, a DPS tree, and a tree put there for the explicit purpose of returning 40% mana to your group. Cunning is good for NOTHING else, as far as I'm concerned. I could understand if it was screwball back-door DPS, but only Feeding Frenzy meets that description. Maybe I'll change my tune when I find out how Wolverine Bite actually works, but as I'm reading the tooltips, cunning is worthless, and -- worse still -- doesn't even seem to have an identity. Survival is our utility tree. I don't see cunning as the pet's.
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Clearcast could free up 2 points in gftt potentially. And I'm pretty sure roar of recovery is hunter-only.
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07/22/08, 1:27 PM
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#442
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Glass Joe
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Haven't read all the previous posts, but it seems that Camo is no longer in Beta. Linky.
I don't know about you guys, but this makes me sad. One of the biggest PvP buffs hunters have seen since pre-BC, and they gut it. On top of leaving Scatter a talent, we're once again going to amount to target dummies in the arena.
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07/22/08, 1:27 PM
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#443
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Hunter
Ravencrest (EU)
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Originally Posted by Ivaldi
Your logic is flawed, in that you assume only 1 steady will fire during the aimed. All of the haste effects will be applying to Steady and Auto, therefore the cast times will be reduced to match the current ratio. The only way I can see Aimed as being viable is if our GCD mechanics don't change. Even then it is unlikely. You also use several buffs to show that Aimed will do more, but again those buffs will apply to Steady and Auto, and maintain the current ratio (or weight it in favor of Steady and Auto, due to applying twice).
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Where does my logic break?
My logic are based on the assumption that haste will lower casting time while it will not lower GCD as you also states.
All the buffs that I including I also include on Stead and Auto. In fact, one thing that I didn't added was the crit-chance, there are a bigger chance that on shot crits, then two shots crits, including that we get another advantage for Aimed Shot.
With for example 30% crit chance we get that Aimed shot will have a 0.7+0.3*2.3 = 1.39 damage modifier, SS+Auto has a 0.09*2.3+2*0.21*2.3+0.49=1.117 damage modifier if my math is logical, 9% that both crits, 30-9 = 21*2 = 42% that any of them crit and 49% that non of them crit.
Originally Posted by Tongaro
The problem with aimed shot is it totally resets the auto timer so with the 3.0 bow on a 1.93 auto shot time if you start the aimed shot right after an auto you still delay the next auto 1.51(rounded aim shot cast time)+1.93(reset auto shot time)=3.44secs that is pretty big and sucky.
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Well, I used a 3.2 weapon speed in my seconds example, nvm.
The point being, that while the reset on auto-shot, is only a delay of auto-shot with 1.51s, so you will only 78% of a auto-shot, so the question that comes to me are, will Aimed Shot do more damage then for example a SS + 78% of a Auto Shot? Should also be added that Aimed Shot would be very tricky to get of immediately after a auto-shot so that lower it's chances.
I never stated that Aimed Shot will be supreme to other shots, I just think that it should be considered in future calculation before dismissing it.
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07/22/08, 1:40 PM
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#444
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Gleithan
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I don't really think that's a 'buff.' It's more like bringing it into line with the way threat is going to work.
TBC Blessing of Salvation
replaced with
WotLK Hand of Salvation
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07/22/08, 1:49 PM
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#445
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Huntard Extraordinaire
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I just don't like how underwhelming Aspect Mastery. I mean, true, how many of you guys took improved aspect of the hawk back when it was a RAP increase? But 150 RAP vs 5% extra damage? Especially when its looking like how much RAP we will already have?
If anything, Aspect Mastery should be more like, While you have an Aspect active, you will always gain at least 10%/20%/30%/40%/50% of the effect of Aspect of the Monkey, Hawk and Viper. And make it so that regardless of what aspect you are using, improved aspect of the hawk still works.
That would be useful and more in line with that tier of talent in my opinion.
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07/22/08, 1:52 PM
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#446
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Don Flamenco
Blood Elf Hunter
Dragonmaw
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If aspect mastery isn't changed, I have a feeling it's value might lie in the 10% damage reduction while in aspect of the monkey. Depending on how encounters turn out, it could be beneficial on some gimmic fights.
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07/22/08, 2:20 PM
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#447
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Great Tiger
Night Elf Hunter
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
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Originally Posted by mako
If aspect mastery isn't changed, I have a feeling it's value might lie in the 10% damage reduction while in aspect of the monkey. Depending on how encounters turn out, it could be beneficial on some gimmic fights.
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Bloodboil Fel Rage type fights
Na'jentus Shield damage type fights
Pre-Council 1-shot trash protection (damn those lazy priests)
Although I guess you could also spec into SV and use imp. Feign Death's 30% reduction on top of it.
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07/22/08, 2:25 PM
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#448
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by mako
If aspect mastery isn't changed, I have a feeling it's value might lie in the 10% damage reduction while in aspect of the monkey. Depending on how encounters turn out, it could be beneficial on some gimmic fights.
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If that was so then having a MM hunter for Scoprid/Chimera (60/40/20% damage reduction on next three attacks) would be REQUIRED.
BTW About Chimera/Scorpid... anyone test whether or not it is a Physical attack only reduction or would it work to reduce like say a Mage's next three fireballs by 60/40/20% also?
/Offtopic and a pipe dream to boot... how fun would it be if the 51 point BM talent let you MC a druid in cat/bear/travel form? (the talent would have to significatly reduce the cast time of tame beast which i don't understand why it currently isnt already... I mean you ARE a master at beast taming right???)
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07/22/08, 2:39 PM
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#449
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Arcazua
Personally, I don't view there as being two DPS trees. I see a tanking tree, a DPS tree, and a tree put there for the explicit purpose of returning 40% mana to your group. Cunning is good for NOTHING else, as far as I'm concerned. I could understand if it was screwball back-door DPS, but only Feeding Frenzy meets that description. Maybe I'll change my tune when I find out how Wolverine Bite actually works, but as I'm reading the tooltips, cunning is worthless, and -- worse still -- doesn't even seem to have an identity. Survival is our utility tree. I don't see cunning as the pet's.
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Cunning is obviously the pvp tree. The 40% mana thing is solely for you and, given how much mana regen is available in pve, only really useful if you've been drained. Not to mention Mobility gives your pet permanent dash/dive, and both Cornered and Feeding Frenzy seem like great pvp talents. Different people want different things, what can I say?
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07/22/08, 2:44 PM
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#450
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Piston Honda
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Arcazua - I posted before that I trained up Wolverine Bite on a pet. It read 355 on the tooltip once I trained it.
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