WotLK Talents & Abilities Discussion - Page 39

Redzin · 08/01/08, 6:59 AM

Originally Posted by Intermission

Dont be so sure this new version of JoW is a nerf to mana income. I've been told the JoW procs themselves are in the range of 400ish. It sounds like they just upped the proc amount but gave it an internal cooldown.

What this means is that the mana return is now more evenly spread amongst the classes. Currently, enhancement shaman get an ungodly mount of mana back from JoW. Hunters at an easy second. Casters like locks and mages get noticeably less obviously, because of their reduced frequency of attacks. This is really warped, because if anything mages should get more mana than hunters from such a spell, due to their higher mana pool/spell cost.

Hunters and enhancement will still get slightly more mana back from JoW than the casters, and the mana they get back is obviously much more in comparison to spell costs and mana pools, but at least it is now quite a lot closer in terms of pure mana given back.

It was proccing in the range of 400 before this internal CD was added as well.

It is a nerf, and a good one imo (assuming we get other mana-return options). Being too reliant on one class isn't a good thing. And as you said, it evens out the regen between classes a bit more.

Gurth · 08/01/08, 10:03 AM

I don't think mana will be such an issue, actually. I see only improvements to the current situation.

Our mana pool will be a lot bigger, and if raidwise totems will go live i think that a rotation of mana tides from resto shammys will be more than enough to cover mana needs for all classes. JoW will be up on bosses a lot easier than now, and despite the internal cooldown, it's still a buff to the current version. Add to the mix the fact that you can easly downrank steady loosing only 60sh dps and i don't really see any trouble going all out in most boss fights.

KraxisSingular · 08/01/08, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by Gurth

Add to the mix the fact that you can easly downrank steady loosing only 60sh dps and i don't really see any trouble going all out in most boss fights.

We still don't know if Blizzard intends to punish that. They have been pretty unhappy about it for healers, doubtless they will be even less happy about it for DPS. It remains to be seen if this is a viable way to slow mana consumption.

mako · 08/01/08, 10:32 AM

Caster downranking is not viable. It would not be surprising for blizzard to carry over the "no benefit from spell power" penalty for low level spells to "no benefit from attack power" for hunters.

And wotlk jow is still superior to tbc jow.

bimmian · 08/01/08, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Chul

Any word on bigger ammo pouches/quivers in WotLK? Given the slight mechanics change (plus the Windfury haste totem), I expect we will go through more ammo/bullets than TBC.

Haven't found anything regarding that, Leatherworking is still not yet implemented.

KraxisSingular · 08/01/08, 3:07 PM

Apparently Blizzard is looking for input for Glyphs. Somethign about them looking for Priest Glyph atm. However the Enhancement Shamans have begun to compile a list of their own.

While such lists can often get bloated with insanely OP ideas, I think it might be worth it if we were to get one of our going. I suppose it can't be bad if a few good ones inspire Blizzard a bit.

I'll start out with a couple myself:

Glyph of Relentless Shots: Steady Shot Global Cooldown is lowered by 0.1 second. (return of haste being at least marginally worthwhile)

Glyph of Companionship: Your Autoshots have a chance to heal your pet and increase it's armor for 8 seconds. (can be helpful for non-Ferocity pets, espcially in PvP)

Glyph of Ferocity: Steady Shot crits have a chance to increase pet AP by 5%.

Glyph of Punishment: The Kill Shot bonus against targets below 20% is increased by #percentage or number#. (obviously a great tool for Surv Hunters)

Glyph of Early Killing: Kill Shot bonus is advanced to 30% healthpool situations.

I tried to no make any of them too powerful, and any numbers can of course be altered until fitting. Too bad I don't have any ideas for 'fluff' Glyphs (like the Polar Bear Glyph for Druids). Those could become the most fun of all.

Zediono · 08/01/08, 3:19 PM

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

Apparently Blizzard is looking for input for Glyphs. Somethign about them looking for Priest Glyph atm. However the Enhancement Shamans have begun to compile a list of their own.

While such lists can often get bloated with insanely OP ideas, I think it might be worth it if we were to get one of our going. I suppose it can't be bad if a few good ones inspire Blizzard a bit.

I'll start out with a couple myself:

Glyph of Relentless Shots: Steady Shot Global Cooldown is lowered by 0.1 second. (return of haste being at least marginally worthwhile)

Glyph of Companionship: Your Autoshots have a chance to heal your pet and increase it's armor for 8 seconds. (can be helpful for non-Ferocity pets, espcially in PvP)

Glyph of Ferocity: Steady Shot crits have a chance to increase pet AP by 5%.

Glyph of Punishment: The Kill Shot bonus against targets below 20% is increased by #percentage or number#. (obviously a great tool for Surv Hunters)

Glyph of Early Killing: Kill Shot bonus is advanced to 30% healthpool situations.

I tried to no make any of them too powerful, and any numbers can of course be altered until fitting. Too bad I don't have any ideas for 'fluff' Glyphs (like the Polar Bear Glyph for Druids). Those could become the most fun of all.

Hmm what vanity glyphs could we have...

Glyph of Burning Arrows: All your shots burn through the air, glowing bright red while in flight.

Glyph of the Ferocious: Your size increases by 50% when you are under the effect of Rapid Fire.

Glyph of Rapidity: While under the effect of Aspect of the Cheetah, you leave a trail of glowing light behind you.

Glyph of the Stalker: Your hunter's mark graphic is now a big pink heart, showing the passion you have for your target.

I'm sure Blizz can come up with some fun(er) ones.

◊ Kaubel · 08/01/08, 5:09 PM

Please don't let this thread go into the crapper with silly wish lists. Keep the suggestions/ideas relevant and realistic. Thanks.

Arcazua · 08/01/08, 5:29 PM

Sorry, is there actually an explanation somewhere on how inscription really works? I'm at a loss to know what I could be suggesting.

Aerynlore · 08/01/08, 5:52 PM

Originally Posted by Arcazua

Sorry, is there actually an explanation somewhere on how inscription really works? I'm at a loss to know what I could be suggesting.

WotLK Wiki - Inscription has a really good summary article.

Gearknight · 08/01/08, 6:15 PM

Originally Posted by WotlkWiki

Minor Glyphs provide small upgrades, or cosmetic improvements. Examples that have been given are the removal of reagent requirements from spells, lowering spell costs, or changing spell graphics.

If there's nothing with legitimate raid utility available through minor glyphs, then I'd hope to see a "generates magic ammo" glyph, making Thori'dal no longer the only free bag slot in town.

Tyranna · 08/01/08, 8:33 PM

Originally Posted by Gearknight

If there's nothing with legitimate raid utility available through minor glyphs, then I'd hope to see a "generates magic ammo" glyph, making Thori'dal no longer the only free bag slot in town.

Well, that'd be nice and all, but don't forget the legendary also has the quiver haste tacked onto it as well. I'm not sure if it would be too much to roll both into one major glyph or if it's worth it using two glyphs to have both the haste and the free arrows.

Chul · 08/01/08, 8:43 PM

Can someone from beta confirm that Cobra Strikes means our pets will 100% crit their next three specials?

I'm wondering whether it means these hits will bypass the combat table and just be guaranteed crits, or whether they just increase the crit rate of them to 100%, which will mean they can still be missed/dodged/parried etc.

I'm assuming it's the former, which would mean Cobra Strikes acts as 'expertise' for special shots, reducing the overall miss and dodge rate of our attacks.

Doctah · 08/01/08, 9:40 PM

Originally Posted by Gurth

if raidwise totems will go live i think that a rotation of mana tides from resto shammys will be more than enough to cover mana needs for all classes.

You're expecting more than 1 resto sham per raid out of curiosity? The range of aoe healing spells available now kinda nullify chain heal and one each of resto/enh/ele covers pretty much every possible totem, hell just enh and resto gives most of them.

Sean · 08/01/08, 9:43 PM

Latest build is almost entirely a bug fix build, but here's the couple relevant changes for us:

WoW Forums -> Buid 8714 - 5 Pet Slots

The additional two stable slots that Ghostcrawler mentioned yesterday are in this new build that went up tonight.

The slots are purchasable and cost 50 gold and 150 gold.

Btw, Pet Talents dont seem to be bugged anymore - they properly show 0 remaining when you spend all of them and don't reset to nothing learned and 0 points available when you try to click on an unlearned talent after using all of them.

Gokey · 08/01/08, 9:51 PM

It also looks like Rapid Recuperation and Improved Steady Shot were changed.

Rapid Recuperation -- ImageShack - Hosting :: rapidrecuperationlr0.jpg
Reduces the mana cost of all shots and abilities by 5/10/15% while under the effect Rapid Fire and Rapid Killing.

Improved Steady Shot -- ImageShack - Hosting :: improvedsteadyshotvt0.jpg
Your Steady Shot hits have a 5/10/15% chance to increase the damage done by your next Aimed Shot, Arcane Shot or Kill Shot by 30% (up from 15%), and reduce the mana cost of your next Aimed Shot, Arcane Shot or Kill Shot by 25% (down from 40%).

edit: added screens from beta

Sean · 08/01/08, 10:00 PM

Hrm, the abilities still show the old Tooltips on Beta - but you don't need to have both Rapid Fire and Rapid Killing up to trigger Rapid Recuperation anymore.

Edit: ... though it doesn't actually appear to work at all (at least not on Arcane Shot).

Gokey · 08/01/08, 10:12 PM

My guess is that Rapid Recuperation was being reworked when this new build went out. The updated talent is even more underwhelming than it's prior incarnation... to say the least.

Sean · 08/01/08, 10:17 PM

Weird, I still saw the old tooltips still on Lich King (which just got restarted, havent logged back in). Were you on the PVE server?

Edit: Logged back in and still see the 60% tooltip, old Imp Steady, ect.

Arcazua · 08/01/08, 10:19 PM

The ISS change, while it does reduce mana savings, does make it a bit more reasonable to be using non-steady shot abilities for damage. If all shots were even mana cost, it would have been a mana savings of around 6%, and now only 3.75%...both those numbers in actuality should be higher since SS is less mana than other abilities. However, at +30% damage, it represents an effective 4.5% specials damage increase (again with equally-damaging shots, which is not the case) rather than a 2.25% increase. If specials make up a bit over half of our personal damage, this makes it bordering on the 1%-per-point mark we look for, with some side benefits. I'd say it's at least worth looking at this talent now, which it really wasn't before.

And Rapid Recuperation was *nerfed*? The talent was already too niche to be useful. At least at 60% you would notice the difference when Rapid Fire was going. 15% savings is nothing when RF is only up 15 seconds out of 300. (180 talented.)

But hey, stable slots!

And thank you for the inscription link. I'd love to dream up some ideas, but do we want to dilute the thread with glyph suggestions?

Gokey · 08/01/08, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Sean

Weird, I still saw the old tooltips still on Lich King (which just got restarted, havent logged back in). Were you on the PVE server?

Edit: Logged back in and still see the 60% tooltip, old Imp Steady, ect.

I'm on the PvE realm.

Sean · 08/01/08, 10:22 PM

Heh, I wonder if Lich King is missing some data...

Chul · 08/01/08, 11:41 PM

Wrote a quick sim program which calculates the crit rate of pet special attacks versus the crit rate of the hunter, assuming a pet special every 1.5s (i.e. Claw/Bite).

Here is the total data set:

Here is a subset focused around the general crit rate of BM hunters:

Looks like we should see at least a 50% pet special crit rate (and >300mp5 from Invigoration).

Trident · 08/02/08, 7:44 AM

I didn't see this mentioned anywhere since the discussion about totems, but totems have had their default range increased to 30 yards.

Source

KraxisSingular · 08/02/08, 8:20 AM

Yay 5 stableslots, now I can keep my Ghost Saber, this is good news, and it shows that Blizz just never really cared to expand the stable. Luckily we now have a dev who actually listens and cares. Damn that came off negative.

30 yards totems... Time to rejoice. Now we can stand at range and still get the full effect of the good totems (WF and SoE). This is going to be of particular joy to Survs with Sniper Training.
No more direct need for a third Shaman for Hunters alone.

Oh yes the day has been fine. So I guess the talent will now increase the range to 40 yards? Getting Mana Tide from across the room.

[EDIT] Totemic Mastery is gone... don't know what the new talent does. Oh well, 30 yards is good regardless.