KraxisSingular

You know that could be done. Despite the fact that weapons would still need ammo. It could just require ammo it be placed in the slot, then that bonus DPS would be applied, but there wouldn't be an actual use of that ammo. While we would then still have to use a quiver/ammo pouch we wouldn't have to spend lots and lots of gold on ammo. Should cut back on the grindneed like Blizz wants. A very good Minor Glyph.

I had only ideas around us having a chance to become a Worgen on shots (like in Kara, love that).

 

Quixotic

I don't know why you guys are up in arms about enhancement shaman dropping windfury totems, a resto shaman's windfury totem does the exact same thing as improved windfury totem doesn't effect range haste.

The potion sickness debuff basically means they can design encounters around the fact that each class can only use one potion, rather than either designing them with chain potting in mind, or having chain potting trivialize the fight. It can only be a good step in terms of fun (buying pots just to hit them every 2 minutes isn't fun) and difficulty.

Even if hunter regen mechanics stay in place, without optimal class balance, it just means you gear differently, and/or change your playstyle. For example, instead of dual wielding weapons enchanted with +26 agility, you enchant them both with +45 intellect for a better aspect of the viper. Sure, you will lose some damage, but who is to say they don't intend hunters to use aspect of the hawk AND aspect of the viper after a certain percent and balance our dps accordingly in relation to other classes?

 

Conscience

New talent increases the critical effect chance of Healing Wave, Lesser Healing Wave and Chain Heal by 60%. Each critical heal reduces the chance by 20% and lasts 20 seconds.
Well, nothing really important, just wanted to clear this up, before anybody specualtes about maybe a new totem boosting talent.

 

KraxisSingular

People are up in arms over it? I think if you look back you will see that most people in fact satisfied with unimproved WF totem as it brings even Survs and MM below the GCD. Now I didn't know that the improved WF didn't affect ranged, but have looked it up now. Sad I must say... Feels like Blizzard once again forgot about Ranged when they made a physical effect. But the loss should be relatively minor since only Autoshots will be affected.

If it will be required to go with a lot more Int at the cost of other stats, then I sure hope they up the base DPS for us. The reason being that we don't, outside Survs, provide a lot of synergy. What we do bring, like Rogues, is a lot DPS. Take that away and there are other classes much more worthy than us.

 

Mirranda

@ Bold, I think that was just an oversight of talents by the OP. I haven't heard anything about it not working correctly on ranged.

Pretend I typed something witty.

 

Sean

Melee/Ranged haste are not a separate Aura effect on the new Windfury (Just like they aren't on Bloodust). It's just bad wording on the Imp Windfury talent and there's absolutely no reason to think otherwise.

Windfury Totem - Spell - World of Warcraft

Bloodlust - Spell - World of Warcraft

It really should be called "Physical" or "Attack" haste or something because it is a singular aura that does not separate Ranged and Melee haste at all. Really it's only Hunter abilities that are unique in separating the effect.

Breath: Haste - Spell - World of Warcraft Here's another example of it. Just renaming it all Melee/Ranged haste tooltips to "Attack Speed" like on this spell would be best, imo.

Edit: Btw, interesting new thing if you look up "Haste" in the unsorted spell files on wowhead - there's a new 17% Hunter ammo bag effect.

 

Terp

Here's hoping that's nothing more than Leatherworking being worked on. The ammo system really does need to be looked at.

Anyways, it's interesting what the "just swap it in the stable" response to exotic pets implies about the plans for the two talent specs. It's almost certainly a matter of the latter not being implemented of course, but I can't really see a way for pet stables to remain as is that doesn't negate any meaningful use of the talent switch. Sure it could simply just be a way to not screw up respeccing, but as much as the feature's been touted that'd be a bit underwhelming.

 

Mirranda

I know this is sort of unrelated, but I'm not sure how many people read the UI and Addons forum, but in response to the new "Improved Tracking" replacing Humanoid Slaying and Monster Slaying, I was looking at a macro (someone said it'd be easier to make an addon) that would do the following:

On Keystroke (assigned, either the macro itself, or hotkey for Addon) get target-type (i.e. Humanoid, Undead, etc) and if you have a matching tracking (basically anything, save unclassified) switch to the matching tracking. If no target exists, then activate Track Hidden (or Minerals, Herbs, None, etc).

[Macro] Tracking Type to Match Target? that's the Original Post I made. Either way, I think it'd be nice not having to right click the icon on the top all the time (or forgetting to and doing 5% less dps on a raid encounter) or having to hotkey all of the trackings again (which I haven't done since I was first leveling a hunter o.0).

Not sure if there's any interest in this outside of my own personal interest, but I thought I'd post about it here to see if there was and if there was someone knowledged enough in macros (this is above my knowledge) or LUA/XML scripting.

Pretend I typed something witty.

 

Trogdor

I think that ammo is fine. Ammo crates are inexpensive mats for quality rounds. I load up my pouch with the epic ammo, save for 4 slots for my crafted ammo which I use for trash. The epic stuff has "boss" written all over it. One crate is 1000 rounds of ammo. Since I'm an engineer (yes, holding my breath to see what they're doing with the profession), I actually keep a stack of bolts, wood, and bars on me instead of just crates (since I can make them anywhere). 3 bag slots = 10000 rounds of ammo. Otherwise, if you're stacking crates then 1 bag slot = 1000 rounds. It would be nice if they increased the amount of ammo per stack *shrug* but I don't see it as a big deal.


I think they should get rid of stables and just let us whistle whichever pet we want whenever we want. No one else in the game uses stables except for hunters, and many of us that are set on one pet barely even use it. "Pet bank" is dumb, and I'd rather see that go than some change in ammo TBH.

 

Terp

Ostensibly the fact alone that you have to distinguish between ammo use is a problem. It's essentially highly encouraged downranking of autoshot, except without any strategic value whatsoever. You simply do it when you think you can spare gimping yourself. Which doesn't gel at all with any form of pvp, be it world, arena, or bg. Giving a completely visible benefit to not participating at all is exactly what battlegrounds do not need, however insignificant. And that issue aside, a purely exhaustive form of dps is just an obnoxious game element.

But whatever, I'm just saying the developers have already shown interest in addressing the issue through something like Thoridal and it'd be great to see that expanded.

 

Sabyn

Amen. I've been waiting for an Endless Quiver AA equivalent or something along those lines since release. It'd be nice if different ammo types were a strategic thing. So much would have to change for it to be viable though, and there's a good chance it would just be too gimmicky or annoying.

The weapon just making its own ammo is one extreme. You could also have ammo not be consumed at all,via a change in general game or hunter mechanics or just a minor glyph. Maybe have the high end stuff drop off bosses somehow, either directly or via a pattern. Player made bullets would just need their mats increased massively because ammo would now become like real slot (like a thrown weapon), and not a consumable. Blizzard would still have the choice of still keeping the quiver/ammo pouch mechanic alive if you still needed to equip at least one stack of bullets. Increasing the stack size to 1,000 or so would be another step in the right direction, or add some ammo regeneration thing built in to quivers or via a glyph or what have you.

I guess it depends what Blizzard wants to see. Do they envision hunters only breaking out top tier ammo for bosses, or should they reasonably be using top tier throughout a raid dungeon and in 5mans etc? If its the latter then it really is time for an overhaul of the system. I prefer the non-consumed ammo. Keeps some flavor around by having different ammo and quivers that may be lost if all our weapons started shooting magic bullets.

 

Trogdor

It's doubtful that Blizzard is going to overhaul the quiver/ammo mechanic. It's a money-sink, just like every other money-sink in the game. Of course everyone wants unlimited mana and unlimited ammo. I'm sure there are people who think durability and repairs should be done with as well.

They're not going to remove ammo from the game, simply put. Though they could increase the count per stack to compensate for more shots, but they're also likely to increase the number of quiver slots via drops or patterns instead. If "free" ammo comes from a legendary weapon, I'm pretty sure they're not going to give us a simple glyph to have regenerating ammo piles or non-use of ammo.

I wouldn't be surprised if there would be glyphs designed to increase the DPS value of whatever ammo we have equipped. Or possibly add an on-chance hit for extra elemental damage or a debuff on the target or something (probably a 2-5% proc rate, knowing Blizzard).

 

Terp

I'm mostly concerned with how it's implemented in pvp, an environment in which it is a vastly unique money-sink.

 

Mirranda

I wouldn't mind seeing a glyph that made your ammo consumption slowed (i.e. 2 shots per 1 ammo? special shots take 2 shots per 1 ammo rather than all shots which would include auto). I don't honestly mind the ammo/quiver thing especially with the bag size increases that have been coming around. The only thing that really bothers me is that the quiver itself SHOULD be big enough to hold enough ammo for you to complete a raid comfortably, and not have to bring extra ammo in normal bags to compensate for long raid instances. I know more than once I've had to leave BT somewhere around mother to fill up again if I don't bring extra. Hyjal used to be that way until they introduced the 24 slot quiver (up from 18). That's my only complaint really about it.

Pretend I typed something witty.

 

Korlash

Even though I don't like the present ammo situation, I don't think they should get rid of ammunition altogether. The higher dps ammo should rather be less expensive. What stops you from getting the expensive ammo should be the rep requirement. In TBC it was like congratulations you completed attunement to MH, and managed to raid enough to get the rep, you can now pay double per stack for your marginally better arrows/bullets.

Using ammo as a money sink is unfair to hunters since we're the only class that actually use ammo.

My idea for a glyph just cause it would be funny, A glyph that makes you able to loot X% of your ammo from the mob after you kill it. I just want to see the master looter saying drops are etc, etc and 1872 arrows.

On a side note with the ammo cooeffecient in SS now, do people with [Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury] gain an increase in SS by having ammo in their ammo slot even though they techincally don't need ammo?

 

Varelse

The maximum stack of anything is capped at 256, I remember a Blizzard poster explaining a year or so ago. Something to do with the inherent stacking limitations built into WoW. Scouring WoWWikki and Google doesn't reveal much help, so hopefully someone with a better memory then me can enlighten us on the exact rules of item stacks. Until then, a minor glyph or some Limitless Ammo epic item drops or craftables would be our best hope.

 

Mirranda

Totally for this idea too. It actually makes sense, at least for arrows... bullets... not so much. I do hope they address the longevity of ammo situation though rather than just giving us better ammo as they always do anyway.

Pretend I typed something witty.

 

Kaji-Boulderfist

That is correct. 8bit Integers are only capable representing numbers from 0-255 To go even 2-3 numbers higher you have to double the size of the file which is unreasonable.

Increasing stack sizes to 255 would net you something around 1300 more ammo fitting into a 24 slot pouch though. That's pretty good.

 

Bullshot

Didn't see this mentioned, but chimeras are confirmed to be another exotic pet.

Mania’s Arcania One Single Chimera - Updated!

Its family ability is Froststorm Breath - Spell - World of Warcraft

It apparently crits for 7.2-8k now and it also has a 30 yard range and is on a 10 second cooldown. It would most likely be tuned a bit before the expansion goes live.

 

Conscience

Well, other classes have to buy reagents to buff the raid. Of course there are classes that have to spend more and classes that have to spend less, but I think there are more important issues to be balanced than this.

Actually I'd rather see a minor glyph in WotLK that gives you a X% (ideally something like 25 or 50) chance your shots don't use ammo. That'd give you effectively X% less money spent and X% more ammo per bag slot.

 

Kaji-Boulderfist

A hunter really has no reason to complain about money. We require far less farming than other classes. Feign Death on almost every boss fight, Pet taking the hits means very slow armor durability loss. We can farm without ever having to eat/drink. It's not as fast as say a affliction lock but you also don't have to pay attention while you're farming. Hunter miners can put their pets on the mobs while they mine the vein. Heck, FDing on bosses not only saves you 10% repair, it lets you keep elixirs on for the full duration which saves a little more.

 

Kaejin

Does anybody know how long the snare lasts? Also, would it be correct to assume the spell acts something like Frostfire Bolt, where the element that does more damage to the target takes priority?

 

KraxisSingular

Most of the time bosses have enough AoE abilities to smack you around while FDed anyway. And for some reason wipes have a tendency to happen just as FD is on CD. 30 seconds can be a long time when the boss is tundering down on you. I get about 1/10 chances of surviving a wipe (save in MH where you can just let the base commander die). When we die we often have the second highest cost of repairs. Most Enhancement Shamans wear a spattering of mail and leather, Restos not as much but I see a lot of lower armor too, Elemental... Well they can match up, and prolly beat us depending on gear. But tbh I don't see them raid a lot.

I mostly run with 40-50 gold repairs, on top of 30g ammo and whatever elixirs I spend. Problem being that flasks really don't do it for me. I can't just get the AP flask and be happy. And then there is the issue of petfood. That is being changed somewhat for Ferocity pets, but it will remain for Tenacity and Cunning. That some gold as well (unless it can eat bread, thank Elune for magefood).

We might have FD to save us some times, but the rest combines to make raiding decidedly costly. And we can perhaps farm well, but farming in any form is a total bore, I don't think we should be required to farm more (in terms of time). And I doubt we can farm that much better than say a Rogue or Enhancement Shaman, or a Prot (or well geared Holy) Pally that AoE farms 40 mobs in the time we kill 10. When you get to a certain level of gear most mobs die too fast to be a problem for DPS classes. So we farm perhaps 10% better, but our costs through ammo is much more than 10%, and remember on farmnight we still have to dish out that money (and while we solofarm as well). Warrior tanks I can feel the pain for. They have it nasty, even if they have some nice DPS gear. We aren't the farmkings people make us out to be, we have it nice and easy, but there are much better classes at it. But they don't have ammo as a money sink, do they?

Reagents? When they cost 30g a night I will begin to consider them, and with the Glyphs taking them away is it a fair comparison anymore?

Ammo might be a moneysink, but it is heavily overpriced. I doubt anyone would be happy if the tank went and said he would put on his cheaper to repair blues on farmed bosses, or Rogues switching for his blue swords. Neither can we just go back on ammo.
And pvp remains. I don't do it much, but it is seriously unfair that Hunters that don't raid as far as MH are gimped in PvP (at least I have it, but our guild's best pvp Hunter has been there once, he likes PvPing not raiding). What other class has that? And it isn't even about drops... Baseline you are just worse off.

Ammo does need a rework. Either Glyphed, priced or mechanically. Either way is fine by me.

 

Kaji-Boulderfist

I'll agree that PVP hunters need a comparable ammo.

I don't know what you're doing wrong, but I survive boss fights probably 70-80% of the time. There's a few exceptions(archimonde, Bloodboil, ROS) but barring an unlucky AOE, Most other fights are easy. Maybe I'm Jaded because my hunter pretty much just summons gold from thin air.. I just don't think our Money/time sink is as bad as other characters. I also have a sham, 2 priests, pally, warrior and rogue and my hunter was pulling in 100s/1000s of gold before dailys. My other characters just stayed broke and it just took too much effort to farm with them.

 

Ravenfire

NO ONE has a reason to complain about money in TBC due to dailies. That said you have some missconceptions on some stuff.

Sadly, your comments lead me to believe that you haven't been to sunwell as a hunter. By boss we've got: Kalecgos where surviving a wipe is all about being in the shadow realm and nothing to do with FD. Brutallus, the one fight that you can FD and survive a wipe 50% of the time if you can find a spot that will not get Meteor slashed while the rest of the raid is dying. Felmyst where the AoE damage aura she has curb stomps FD'd hunters. Twins where AoE damage is again >>> FD. M'uru, just L O L at surviving a wipe on this fight. Kil'Jaeden, chances are slim since the raid would have to be wipeing at just the right time for a hunter to survive a wipe but in general I've yet to successfully FD on this fight. Still learning KJ, phase 4, 27% our best try so far, so I'm getting lots of oppurtunities to try and FD survive a wipe.

As for farming... we are the only class that PAYS to farm. It takes me an average of 5-6 shots to kill a mob while out doing dailies. With the best arrows/bullets avaiable thats running me 5 silver a kill. I don't know of any other class that has to pay such a high cost to kill mobs while soloing. The closest would have to be a melee class but the chances of them taking 5s worth of durability loss killing a single mob is laughable. That would be the equivalent of them losing 1 durability PER KILL. We are also the only class that would consider lowering our dps to increase net profit from farming. you don't see a mage in T6 saying "I need to go do my dailies... let me just break out my blues/greens daily gear" The closest you come to being able to say that someone pays for farming like us hunters do would be to point out those ppl that respec to a dps specc to do their farming and that is a different topic.

Edit: to keep this on track, IF blizzard continues to design WotLK bosses like Sunwell bosses then FD is vurtually worthless for avoiding repair bills via surviving wipes. Which then leads to Hunters far and away having THE highest raid costs unless the cost of arrows/ammo is reduced to a more reasonable amount.