The reason is currently we can push our steadies down to 1s cast time and because of the hidden autoshot cast time, we are still benefitting from that haste on steadies.
Because we cannot cast the next steady until auto has cast, so haste is not directly boosting steady damage but it IS boosting it by allowing our next auto to start casting earlier, meaning our next steady can also cast earlier.
I'm not normally the one who would like to see hunters move towards melee combat, but seeing that's what Blizzard might be prodding us to do in PvP, I guess I'll make my thoughts on this known.
While the incredibly vast majority of us prefer to see ourselves as masters of ranged combat, we do have two interesting characteristics (well, three actually) which are curious for being ranged specialists.
* We wear mail armour. Yeah, big whoopty do, right? Well it does give us a bit more endurance against something hitting us, we just need ways to make use of it.
* We can equip virtually all weapons except maces of the 1H and 2H variety and wands, much the the despair of rogues and warriors of ages past.
* We can dual wield.
While I don't propose we have a whole tree maximising the whole 'lol meleehuntard' thing, I do think that there could be room to re-adjust the melee aspect of the hunter as being a highly damaging form of combat that has the major drawback that it is inefficient compared to ranged combat. To that end, I reckon a re-adjustment to Mongoose Bite would be in order as well as Raptor. Let's just look at those two abilities quickly:
Raptor Strike is essentially, our version of Heroic Strike. On next attack, it adds additional damage. It's pretty pathetic in terms of damage to mana ratios but we say could get talents to beef this attack up to reasonable levels. Savage Strike already does this to a degree, but perhaps more synergistic talents to add say, chance to proc a second hit or something like that would be interesting. Drop the mana cost as well or attach a fixed percentage based mana cost to prevent rank 1 cheese if the ability does get beefed. The whole idea is to create a solid baseline melee ability which will deal more DPS than a prot warrior in tanking gear for a reasonable period of time.
Rework Mongoose to be rather devastating but is limited by the combined cooldown and mana restrictions. I'm thinking Stormstrike style. Instant attack with 2H or both 1H weapons. Adding synergy with Raptor such as a debuff that increases damage taken by the next Raptor optional. Let's face it. Right now even though we have mail armour, we hit people with a foam bat. The joust crits are nice and all but the main reason why we're in melee is to wingclip and GTFO. Boosting the DPS characteristics of Mongoose and Raptor would serve to give a deterrence *cough* to people simply charging in because that'll neuter virtually all our DPS as our melee would actually now pack a serious punch.
Improve the Fire traps and we'll be on to something. I really like the idea of explosive trap having a short duration stun since that will give us a quick 'breather'. Immolation getting a major buff on its RAP coefficient to say, the 40 or 50% range would also be great to add additional melee ranged DPS but the whole arming delay on traps needs to have a serious re-look. Perhaps keep the arming time on Freezing and Explosive (both are capable of disabling a target) while Frost and Immolation should be able to be used 'instantly'.
I don't propose we should be anywhere near as effective in raid DPS in melee range as we are with our ranged weapons. That just goes against the whole paradigm of the class to date. However, we should get some options for melee combat as levelling options (finish off a target that's closed in after the ranged assault softens it) and for PvP. Ranged = efficient hurties and all tools are available. Melee = defensive DPS that can threaten or outright kill someone who isn't careful but cannot be sustained beyond medium term.
I would like to elaborate on the point about haste to say that while its usefulness plateaus hard in PvE once you hit 1.5 second steady shots, in PvP it's slightly better. In PvE the issue is about fitting skills into shot rotations, which is limited by the GCD. In PvP, the issue is more often about trying to actually get abilities off before your opponents react in some way, such as getting into melee range or out of LOS. To that end, I'd rather have a 1.0 second cast Steady than a 1.5 second one in PvP, even if the GCD was 1.5 seconds for both.
I don't mean to suggest that stacking haste will be an efficient PvP gearing strategy (it would depend on what other sacrifices you had to make to do it), but just wanted to add that caveat.
I am vehemently against any attempt by Blizzard to increase our melee game (unless it helps us to escape melee). Call me a skeptic if you want, but I believe Blizzard will buff our melee damage, think to themselves, "Hey, hunters aren't so bad in melee so it's okay if other classes can get them there easily," and then leave us in that state.
I also disagree with the people posting suggestions here for better melee damage. I believe it will only serve to convince Blizzard that this approach is correct and then the class will be left with buffs, yes, but not the fundamental problems fixed. I really think this is the wrong way to deal with our lack of mobility.
Uh, just reading what I wrote before I posted it and it came out a little too confrontational. I don't mean that people shouldn't post suggestions or anything. I'm sure they have the best intentions and they don't believe increasing our melee damage AND increasing our mobility are mutually exclusive. I just disagree with this because of the terrible state our class has been in (PvP-wise) for pretty much most of the expansion and the seemingly ignorant way Blizzard has approached the problem. Lowering of the deadzone was the only real change of substance in my opinion. The MS Aimed Shot and purging Arcane Shot were nice, but they were bandaids. I just want to see less bandaids and more true fixing of issues.
Reading it once more before I posted (yeah I know >_>, but it's better than making a crappy post, right?), this post came out a little too negative so I'll just write down something a bit more constructive that I think could help the class.
I believe a kind of reverse-blink or -intercept on a low cooldown would be the best way to fix our problems. Either that or a low cooldown snare-clearing skill. I'll stress one important thing about either though: low cooldown. Things on a 5 minute cooldown (heck, even a 1 minute cooldown) aren't going to be too much help in arena. I also think a single-target knockback will do more for 1v1 and less for arena combat than some kind of teleporting skill, which is why I didn't suggest a knockback.
I would like to elaborate on the point about haste to say that while its usefulness plateaus hard in PvE once you hit 1.5 second steady shots, in PvP it's slightly better. In PvE the issue is about fitting skills into shot rotations, which is limited by the GCD. In PvP, the issue is more often about trying to actually get abilities off before your opponents react in some way, such as getting into melee range or out of LOS. To that end, I'd rather have a 1.0 second cast Steady than a 1.5 second one in PvP, even if the GCD was 1.5 seconds for both.
I don't mean to suggest that stacking haste will be an efficient PvP gearing strategy (it would depend on what other sacrifices you had to make to do it), but just wanted to add that caveat.
But then again, in PvP casting anything faster is a bonus. Especially casters don't like long cast bars since if you interrupt it hurts them as much as a kick in the nuts. The Haste bonus is also useful for less pushback, but in the end, this is the utility aspect of Haste, not the actual DPS boost every other class is getting.
I think Takel has a good point. At the very least it would make me feel better knowing I could open up a new hole in my opponet before they kill me in melee range, instead of just feeling like a fish flopping around in a bucket half-full of water after being fished out of the lake.
Yes i understand that haste has no effect on any of our specials as bm, but so it hasn't now. Tha fact that there is no haste cap in wotlk means, theoretically we can bring autoshot down to 1.2 which means averagely constant quickshot uptime. U can reach haste boundaries where one more auto fits in while quickshot is up. e.g. at 1.7 u can fire 7 auto while quickshot is active. I still dont get where can haste be less good, cheeky or anyone could give an explanation would be appretiated.
In TBC haste are a very powerfull stat when it comes to tune your auto-shot to perfect rotation, so it affects not only white dps, it affects SS-dps as you will can use SS at a close to perfect rate between auto-shot.
In WtLk where Autos are unlinked from our specials like most melee classes abilities, haste only affect our auto-shot dps (I assume Quiver+WF-totem will cover SS down to GCD) and as auto-shot is only like 25-30% of our dps, you need more then 3% haste to get 1% more dps, that makes is a less desireble stat then for example enhancement shaman where white damage is around 50% of the total dps.
I believe a kind of reverse-blink or -intercept on a low cooldown would be the best way to fix our problems. Either that or a low cooldown snare-clearing skill. I'll stress one important thing about either though: low cooldown. Things on a 5 minute cooldown (heck, even a 1 minute cooldown) aren't going to be too much help in arena. I also think a single-target knockback will do more for 1v1 and less for arena combat than some kind of teleporting skill, which is why I didn't suggest a knockback.
Actually, I'ld love to see Scatter Shot trainable, perhaps making it more of a Blind-like ablity, increasing duration and reducing/removing damage and the talent being replaced with something like
Blast Shot
Instant, 10-15y range, 20-30s cooldown
Blasts a powerful charge a powerful charge at your target, causing weapon damage and blowing him 10y away. The recoil on this ability is so heavy you are being launched backwards for 10y aswell and removing movement impairing effects. Has a 10% chance to make the target run in Horror for 4 seconds and yell "OMG, not in the face!!".
The second part is pure flavor though, but this is basicly a knockback as well as a blinket/"rocket jump"-like ability like heroic Leap is for Warriors. Note that 20y is still enough to Frost Shock, Intercept, Repent/HoJ or Sprint across. It would simply 'force' the target to use his abilities, preventing them to be used on your Arena parter and allowing you to actually have a chance of getting away. The reasoning behind the 50/50 pushback rather then 20y on the target is to prevent casters being pushed around too much (blowing a healer out of LoS of his partner for example), although it is will remain as useful against casters explicitly running around you.
I finally got into Beta and of course tried out my hunter as well.
Random first impressions:
Shot Sotation:
As we all know your Bread and Butter SR macro doesn'T work anymore due to the changes. Mashing the Steady Shot Button lets you cast SS over and over but i think you miss Auto Shots (just a feeling, it really hard to confirm due to no Addons and i didn't do too many tests yet). So i played around a little and so far i came up with:
While it may be ugly and less than ideal it seems to work for me. A Mashable Button that lets you fling your Rotation.
Pet:
I took out my cat from the stable, being a Ferocity Pet. First impression: It does a lot of Damage, more than on live. also survivability, especially in Instances went up a hole lot due to new Avoidance Rank.
Also I have the feeling Pet Pathfinding got improved.
Mana:
This will be an Pain in the Butt. I spedded BM including all those nice ManaReg talents. Coba strikes so far is up often, yet by far not always. (I am sitting around with roughly 32% crit unbuffed). In my first Northrend Instance run I noticed my Mana dropped quite fast, not going OOM, but those fights are rather Short, granted I also had no Manareg in my group except for a RetPally.
Graphics:
Shot Anomation has been Changed, so far all Shots are sorty white lines. Easily more visible than before. The with lina has roughly the thickness of a Mages Fireball trail. Nice to be more visible, but no different animations for different Shots so far.
Misdirection also got a slight graphical update making it more visible.
Cobra Strikes has a huge Animation. Everytime it procs you got a huge Animated Snakehead over your head that also fisses. Not that flat kind like AotV, huge, 3D und animated.
Dmg output:
Can't really say that much yet. Of course your AP takes a huge jump due to the Int->AP conversion, but for testing purposes I am only 2/5 Mortal Shots right now, so far i am using these Talents: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
I finally got into Beta and of course tried out my hunter as well.
Random first impressions:
Shot Sotation:
As we all know your Bread and Butter SR macro doesn'T work anymore due to the changes. Mashing the Steady Shot Button lets you cast SS over and over but i think you miss Auto Shots (just a feeling, it really hard to confirm due to no Addons and i didn't do too many tests yet). So i played around a little and so far i came up with:
While it may be ugly and less than ideal it seems to work for me. A Mashable Button that lets you fling your Rotation.
Uhh I'm not in the beta myself but as far as I know you don't need any macro anymore. Just mash the Steady Shot from your spell book and Auto should always fire, even in the middle of casting Steady.
Yeah you are right, the Problem is: when you start SSing by pushing the Button, Auot shot does not Start. I didn't want to have to first push Auot shot and then SS every Mob.
No More Buttons! It's true that hunters have a lot of buttons. A set for ranged, another for melee, traps, cooldowns (be they BM or Sv skills), so instead of looking at adding more skills and talents and buttons (even though we are already getting one (KS) + 2 Yet-to-be-announced buttons), what can we add to the ones we have that work in PvE but are useless in PvP?
Disengage: I think some mentioned having it be our reverse-blink/intervene. We've also talked about having such a skill. This also has a nice implication in solo-grinding, as it does something other than "stop swinging and look dumb while the mob continues to beat on you." In 5-mans, a good hunter could use this as a way to bring the mob back to the tank. How many times to we run through a mob we pulled (because FD is on cooldown), wing-clip it and haul ass to the tank. What if we could run through the mob, spin around and disengage ourselves over to the tank. Definitely adds a lot of mobility options.
Distracting Shot: Basically a ranged wish-I-was-a-taunt... what if it caused your target to change it's target to you... even for just a moment. This would allow hunters to have some utility to help pull players off the assist-train target. Maybe we would need to up the cooldown a little bit. While this doesn't help us survive when being trained, it does give us a little added team defensive ability. It might even work in PvE, but this has some odd implications for boss abilities that add a big debuff to the tank (or maybe it's a nice pseudo-Intervene). We have mail armor because we used to take all kinds of beatings on pulls-gone-wrong. With the accessibility of Careful Aim, we'll be taking (Blizzard hopes) more mail again. Perhaps being a single-strike soaker is something to look at.
Misdirection: yeah, I got nothing.
Tranquilizing Shot: Blizz is already on-top of that.
Also, have we heard any clarification on whether Improved Tracking also applies to our marked target? Or are we still just sitting on [NYI] with no hints?
--edit--more thoughts--
Has anyone looked into giving us a small passive bonus if we have our pet at our side? Something along the lines of what Warlocks gets when they sacrifice their slaves. Now, I understand that Blizz said they want to semi-nerf the demonic sacrifice, but it just would be nice to have a small bonus (beyond the BM +2% dmg) for when our pet is sitting at our side, being useless on those anti-melee / high-mobility bosses. Perhaps a +health bonus for Tenacity pets, +rap bonus for Ferocity pets and +mp5 for Cunning pets... just a thought.
Last edited by Aerynlore : 08/08/08 at 11:34 AM.
Reason: le typo
Yeah you are right, the Problem is: when you start SSing by pushing the Button, Auot shot does not Start. I didn't want to have to first push Auot shot and then SS every Mob.
Edit: Typo
Can't you just do:
/startattack
/cast Steady Shot
I know that's why my rogue friend does for all his specials so he doesn't have to click on his auto attack button when switching targets on trash.
When 3? years ago I was creating first character... I picked Troll Hunter. It had worst racial abilities (regeneration actually sounded fun till facts hit me... troll that doesn't regenerate blah).
Then I found out throwing weapons don't work with ranged abilities. /cry no mad troll axe thrower (racial +5 throw)
Then I found out 2 wield + BM spec doesn't make you Beast Master. /cry no Rexxar mode (you know... pet and temporary pets doing stuff -> calling a crab for 10seconds that wing clips your enemies while doing low damage for instance).
That hunter is "primary" ranged well just doesn't fit wit my vision. All of our 3 trees do same thing. Mashing Steady Shot macro.
I want choice that most other classes have.
BM -> Melee+BadPet not 70%-30% but 50%-50% (hunter:pet dps)
MM -> Ranged+Pet (like now, with maybe extra range (46y))
SV -> bit of melee/ranged+pet+extra utility(Traps)
(for instance)
What if we could use our abilities with throwing weapons but with reduced max range and no minimum range? Right now they are in game for... Deadly Throw?
Don't spit on melee idea of hunter. Yes it's bad since release. I know, I remember Lacerate... Some even made it work to degree (RP Dwarf tanking most of KZ in KZ- gear).
But done properly it would make quite few people happy. And could fix our arena issues.
You don't like to be melee trained... spec BM melee them back bad and have a pet that has Resilience (t7-9 BM). Or spec SV and give them CC of their life. What now that you are BM Frost mages are kitting you and you can only do auto shot damage from range? Well that's your problem since you have option to spec MM, destroy those mages and become vulnerable to melee.
Right now no matter witch spec you take, you have same problems. Most classes taking different spec chose witch set of problems(and strengths) they will have. It would definitely help clearing 48 abilities from our bars witch is another problem. You don't see enh.shaman throwing lightning bolts around do you?
Of all the ideas thrown out there for hunter mobility i really like the Disengage --> distance gained idea. Afterall, what does it actually mean to disengage? To me it always meant stepping back or pulling away from the enemy. The current version just stops Auto attacking the target and reduces threat slightly and is rarely if ever used. Adding a self knockback component to this ability would really make this ability USED (especially while soloing and in pvp where if the enemy is beating on you they are highly unlikely to stop just because you "disengaged" them).
No More Buttons! It's true that hunters have a lot of buttons. A set for ranged, another for melee, traps, cooldowns (be they BM or Sv skills), so instead of looking at adding more skills and talents and buttons (even though we are already getting one (KS) + 2 Yet-to-be-announced buttons), what can we add to the ones we have that work in PvE but are useless in PvP?
Don't forget Aspects and pet actions. Too many buttons!
Don't forget Aspects and pet actions. Too many buttons!
It was great when they incorporated tracking into the UI to clear up those items from action bars. Would be nice to see a similar mechanic (maybe a bar like those for stances or shape shifting) for Aspects.
It was great when they incorporated tracking into the UI to clear up those items from action bars. Would be nice to see a similar mechanic (maybe a bar like those for stances or shape shifting) for Aspects.
They should make them into aura buttons, but I'm not sure if that conflicts with the pet's action bars. Priests can have both, right?
They should make them into aura buttons, but I'm not sure if that conflicts with the pet's action bars. Priests can have both, right?
There was a mod waaaaaaay back called Aspected Again, which would put all the aspects into your "aura" bar, and thus enabled you to bind keys to them, as a paladin would be able to.
The pet bar was then shifted to the top centre of the main bar, just under the cast bar.
Played like that for ages, and when something broke Aspected Again, I couldn't play properly for a day or so, as my aspects and pet bar weren't in the right places.
Originally Posted by Ulthwithian
Paladins do have an ability to heal multiple people at once. It's called Divine Storm. ><
I still use Aspected again, the only issue I have is that, as it taints the Blizzard UI, if I get put into combat without my pet out I don't get the pet bar when I summon my pet.
The only thing wrong with becoming a melee hunter is that hunters are currently lacking any significant utility or dps boosts from melee range. There's no expose armor or sunder, no pummel or kick or garrote, no demo or tclap or disarm to kill incoming dmg. There's also no whirlwind or MS or SoC, which flat out kills dps output, regardless of what a hunter's ap is at. I think most people's contention with buffing melee is that it would require such a significant change to the class that it's not really worth it.
Too many buttons!
I sometimes wonder if this isn't the real reason hunters are terribad at pvp. We've got the six core abilities everyone seems to have, and then sting management, pet management, aspect management, trap management, tracking management, reactive bullshit melee abilities, and utility spells like Volley and Flare. Not to mention trinkets, RF, and racials, and the fact you are going to need focus macros for 3-4 abilities + pet to do anything. I logged on to my hunter to count all the shit I must click, and I see 40 fucking buttons to press. And that's with shift/alt macros for almost anything that can be included in them. My warrior tops out at 30, absolute maximum, and pally can barely break 20.
And the expansion is tossing on Explosive/Chimera, Kill Shot, Bear Trap, Tranq Shot, and making tracking obnoxious. Hell yea!
The only thing wrong with becoming a melee hunter is that hunters are currently lacking any significant utility or dps boosts from melee range. There's no expose armor or sunder, no pummel or kick or garrote, no demo or tclap or disarm to kill incoming dmg. There's also no whirlwind or MS or SoC, which flat out kills dps output, regardless of what a hunter's ap is at. I think most people's contention with buffing melee is that it would require such a significant change to the class that it's not really worth it.
I sometimes wonder if this isn't the real reason hunters are terribad at pvp. We've got the six core abilities everyone seems to have, and then sting management, pet management, aspect management, trap management, tracking management, reactive bullshit melee abilities, and utility spells like Volley and Flare. Not to mention trinkets, RF, and racials, and the fact you are going to need focus macros for 3-4 abilities + pet to do anything. I logged on to my hunter to count all the shit I must click, and I see 40 fucking buttons to press. And that's with shift/alt macros for almost anything that can be included in them. My warrior tops out at 30, absolute maximum, and pally can barely break 20.
And the expansion is tossing on Explosive/Chimera, Kill Shot, Bear Trap, Tranq Shot, and making tracking obnoxious. Hell yea!
I can't imagine trying to fit everything into the standard UI. (Oh, and don't forget things like potions, healthstones, mounts and food!) They should be consolidating more abilities, not splitting up their usefulness like the Arcane/Tranq shot change. They should definitely merge melee abilities together, but if they're going to make our melee viable, we'll be asking for MORE melee abilities, just like you suggested in your first paragraph. It's like... the more buffs they give us, the more it weighs us down.
I can't imagine trying to fit everything into the standard UI. (Oh, and don't forget things like potions, healthstones, mounts and food!) They should be consolidating more abilities, not splitting up their usefulness like the Arcane/Tranq shot change. They should definitely merge melee abilities together, but if they're going to make our melee viable, we'll be asking for MORE melee abilities, just like you suggested in your first paragraph. It's like... the more buffs they give us, the more it weighs us down.
That's exactly the thing though. I'm not opposed to the tranq shot change. I'd absolutely love a dispel shot that did no damage. Completely. But then it's like... I have no idea where I'm going to fucking keybind that to. When I saw Kill Shot the first thing I did was hope that it was on the Arcane cooldown so that I didn't have to use one or the other.
And I forgot about all the new pet abilities, which seem an absolute fucking nightmare. They really need to just delete the focus requirements from every last one of the talented abilities, there's no way anyone can manage that much shit.
Seeing as how Blizzard is thinking about us being better in melee (indicated by the AotB change), I wonder if we could come up with something that may work. We've always seen ourselves as purely a ranged class, but perhaps that is not what hunters should only be. We're already a hybrid of sorts, doing physical damage but from range yet using mana. So why not take this further by being a ranged and melee hybrid; druids and warriors can pop between dps form and tank form, why not have hunters swapping between ranged and melee dps form?
So, what if Blizzard gave us two stances (or 'forms'): A ranged stance, and a melee stance?
I don't think I'd want another bar on the bottom along with my pet bars. BUT I do think that AotM and AotB should be rolled into one aspect.. like.. Aspect of the Chupacabra. 10% more melee damage and 8% more dodge and we can't be tracked. I think it's a fair idea.
I actually went into some BG's last night (it's been MONTHS) and tore through alliance left and right. I did get jumped by rogue/warrior/druid a number of times. One rogue I killed after his stun wore off me. Circle-strafe while spamming wingclip, raptor strike, mongoose bite, snake trap, and kill command.. and I managed to perfectly execute my pathing through his/her axis and didn't take hits. Shivering Felspine ate the rogue with glory. I took damage against rogues/druids that moved around and prevented a perfect circle-strafe, but still made them suffer. This didn't work so well against warriors. They hit hard, parry/dodge a lot, and the best I hoped for was getting one raptor crit in (for ~1900) before I died.
The situations were fair, in the sense it wasn't 1 on 1. I did get bailed out a few times, and to the rest I just died. I don't care about trying to kite away from melee, because I've had enough experience to know it doesn't work very well.. and I get more satisfaction to surprise them by getting down and dirty with my polearm and giving them a run for their health bar. In a PVP melee situation, I can't say that the 10% melee from AotB would save me any better than AotM. Once you get jumped and have your movement slowed, you don't have very many seconds before that melee opponent is going to take you out so every GCD is going to count. The seconds are probably less for BM or MM hunters, because I typically have more health and dodge as SV.
I don't want a melee PVP defensive choice. That's just dumb. It should be one button that is all-encompassing for melee defenses, because we're most likely going to die anyway. AotB just.. doesn't.. seem to have a place in PvE [raid situations]. Not when I can take a step back or two to get min range to shoot.
I think counterattack should be changed to a 6-second disarm accompanied by 6 seconds of 20% slowed attack speed (in case they're good at fisticuffs or have a weapon chain or something). Even if I root (current counterattack) a rogue or a warrior for 5 seconds, I can't get far enough away in that time if I have hamstring/crippling on me, and they'll catch back up; in that 5 seconds, I could have returned some damage back instead of trying to prolong my fate. What's the point of 10% melee damage from AotB if counterattack is designed to [poorly] have us try to get away?
All this self-knockback is a silly idea, honestly. Think of the 25 man instances where the last thing you want to have happen is pushing yourself away. If the direction you're facing isn't perfect, you're likely to end up looking like a "huntard". Disengage does need something, since it's pretty useless atm. The threat reduction is garbage, and if it's ever "needed" in a 5- or a 10-man instance then that means people need to L2play (tank or hunter both).
I think that distracting shot should be changed to a 4-second confuse for a PVP aspect, instead of it's current threat-loading mechanics. "Well you can use distracting shot with MD on a trapped target to send threat to the tank w/o breaking the trap". Right. Or we can just keep it trapped until we're going to kill it, because I'd rather use MD to front-load damage+threat on an initial pull instead of trying to lump 3 abilities together to get super-clever.
This is a long post I'm making, so lemme sum up my ideas and maybe we can roll it around:
1) AotM and AotB should be lumped into one aspect
2) Counterattack should be a 4-6 second disarm with 20% attack speed reduction, proccing from parries
3) Distracting Shot should be a 4-second ranged confuse, probably on a 60s cooldown (30s, while preferred, would probably garner outrage)
4) Immolation trap should have the base damage nudged up and use 50% of our RAP to determine the rest of the damage (previously mentioned)
5) Exploding trap should have the base damage nudged up and use 25%'ish of our RAP to determine the rest of the damage while adding a 4-second stun upon exploding [like grenades] (previously mentioned)
6) Disengage should... uh.. I dunno.. refill our mana bar to 100% *shrug*
I
All this self-knockback is a silly idea, honestly. Think of the 25 man instances where the last thing you want to have happen is pushing yourself away. If the direction you're facing isn't perfect, you're likely to end up looking like a "huntard". Disengage does need something, since it's pretty useless atm. The threat reduction is garbage, and if it's ever "needed" in a 5- or a 10-man instance then that means people need to L2play (tank or hunter both).
I think you're missing the point. I don't think we should concern ourselves with Disengage being useful in instances, 25-man or otherwise; because as a melee ability, if you're using it you're probably doing something wrong. But an ability that lets us leap back while lowering our threat level at the same time could be very useful in solo PvE grinding/questing (aka when you pull aggro off your pet) and PvP situations. That'd be a step up from where Disengage currently is, and it would definitely see more use.
08/08/08, 8:17 AM
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