Glad he acknowledged this, but what's he talking about with the hot bars?
I believe he's thinking of implementing it like warrior stances / rogue stealth / druid forms where your abilities change based on your state rather than like Paladin auras where your abilities remain the same.
Raidwide TSA and the nerf to explosive shot make me think we'll see a lot of raids with a TSA+EW hunter. How good is hunting party now, after all of its back-and-forth?
0/31/33 is what's required to pick up TSA and EW, which leaves 7 points. I think the most powerful thing those 7 points can reach is Master Tactician, which is probably worth over 1% crit per point. For more mana endurance, those 7 points can also finish efficiency, get all of TotH, and get Combat Experience.
I don't think there is really a need of having a hunter specced like this, when you could just pick up one with 51pts in MM and one with 51pts in Sv. While your suggested specc might be the ultimate support build, it takes neither of the respective defining shots, which should lead to a heavy drop in DPS, which simply isn't worth it. Of course I've got no theorycraft to underminde my position here, but since all values are in fact subject to chance, an approach referring to the intention Blizzard has shown so far seems to pull more weight to me either way:
There was a bluepost just recently, that listet MM as supposed to use Chimera Shot and SV as supposed to use Explosive Shot. So their aim seems to be making both deep MM and deep SV worthwile and different at the same time, which leads me to the assumption that, should your build indeed be desirable, there will be tweaking done to nerf it or buff its alternatives.
Intimidation - We'd like to make this instant instead of relying on the pet's next attack.
Disengage - This is being changed in a future build. What it will do is cause the Hunter to jump back instantly 10-15ish yards to gain distance. 30 second cooldown.
Aspect of the Cheetah - The daze is there so Hunter's can't infinitely "kite" monsters or players. Sprints and movement speed bonuses is something we are very weary of giving the Hunter class.
I'm not sure bar changing for aspects is the right approach. For one, aspects are still on the GCD and I'm not going to hit AoM before I wingclip.
At one time I used a mod that switched my actionbar based on the range of my opponent. It allowed for a very clean and logical UI. I'd rather see something like that.
As far as the new disengage...great! I can't say I like rogues/warriors/hunters teleporting but that's the way it is. Although I'd much rather see disengage grant a short cc immunity + runspeed boost. Backwards jumping just sounds buggy like blink.
As far as the new disengage...great! I can't say I like rogues/warriors/hunters teleporting but that's the way it is. Although I'd much rather see disengage grant a short cc immunity + runspeed boost. Backwards jumping just sounds buggy like blink.
Master's Call, drop frost trap (no GCD hopefully), disengage, maintain distance?
As a long-time reader, this is my first post but i feel i have to respond. Aspect mastery at 11 pts into the BM tree looks like a must have talent now. 50% bonus to AotH for an effective 450 attack power (AotH has 300 ap at lvl 80 according to wowhead) seems like too large of a bonus to pass up for 11 pts. This completely throws off my theoretical mm/sv build however. It really isn't possible to get to explosive shot in SV and get 5/5 mortal shots + aspect mastery. I realize mortal shots is more damage than aspect mastery will be, but 150 ap for 11 pts is hard to pass up.
Disengage - This is being changed in a future build. What it will do is cause the Hunter to jump back instantly 10-15ish yards to gain distance. 30 second cooldown.
For Hunters, backwards Blink is a feature, not a bug. Maybe they'll actually fix Blink once hunters start complaining about it.
Edit: Ok, it's a leap, but I wonder if it will have all the same problems as Blink.
I'm thinking that Marks could really pull out to be the highest pure DPS spec on Raids for Hunters with the changes. And there's still Serpent Sting's upcoming upgrade to consider - making it so it will be something that every spec's rotation uses is going to be a fairly big boost to it.
You could also probably drop Efficiency and pick up Imp Mark for more Raid Synergy and to free up some points for your Survival Hunter. That's going to depend a lot on raid make ups and how much you'll be regening from others, but I think that's a real option. You pick up your Survival Hunter for EW and Hunting Party and Survival Hunters are going to be putting out some fairly nice DPS too with the changes to their tree. Then you pick up the Marks Hunter for the new Raid-wide TSA with it's new 225 AP max rank (isn't shown in the talent yet) and Imp Mark.
That leaves BM. BM seems to be really lacking some Raid Synergy. I think a good boost to it would be making Ferocious Inspiration raid-wide, but not stack up like it does now.
There is the exotic Worm pet which has a stacking AC debuff that is -2355 armor at 3 stacks, but I don't know if that stacks with Sunder or if it's going to continue to stack with it (seems a bit much if it did). It's also on a Tenacity pet which is not the tree you'd really want to raid with.
Master's Call, drop frost trap (no GCD hopefully), disengage, maintain distance?
You dont need that much. Just wait untill there is around 1 second left on your snare (witch will be happening A LOT with surefooted at 50%) press disengage and your off!
You dont need that much. Just wait untill there is around 1 second left on your snare (witch will be happening A LOT with surefooted at 50%) press disengage and your off!
Presumably we'll still be hamstrung/crippled/maimed etc even though 15 yards away, so that's why I went with the Master's Call.
That leaves BM. BM seems to be really lacking some Raid Synergy. I think a good boost to it would be making Ferocious Inspiration raid-wide, but not stack up like it does now.
Actually there's some benefit to having the one spec with the stacking, non-synergistic buff.
In WOTLK, if you have one hunter, you make him SV (assuming the EW + HP makes up for no TSA and less personal damage). Then if you have two hunters, you make the second MM (for TSA). If you've got a 3rd hunter or even a 4th hunter you make them both BM.
If FI is raidwide and non-stacking then a 4th hunter is much worse than a 3rd, but a 3rd is a huge boost over a 2nd. If FI is partywide and stacking then it evens out. The 2->3 jump is smaller, and the 3->4 jump is bigger.
If Blizzard is aiming for wanting 2 of each class to get the best buffs, with a 3rd in the class being handy but not overpowering, same with a 4th. I think the current FI solves that goal better.
I'm thinking that Marks could really pull out to be the highest pure DPS spec on Raids for Hunters with the changes. And there's still Serpent Sting's upcoming upgrade to consider - making it so it will be something that every spec's rotation uses is going to be a fairly big boost to it.
You could also probably drop Efficiency and pick up Imp Mark for more Raid Synergy and to free up some points for your Survival Hunter. That's going to depend a lot on raid make ups and how much you'll be regening from others, but I think that's a real option. You pick up your Survival Hunter for EW and Hunting Party and Survival Hunters are going to be putting out some fairly nice DPS too with the changes to their tree. Then you pick up the Marks Hunter for the new Raid-wide TSA with it's new 225 AP max rank (isn't shown in the talent yet) and Imp Mark.
That leaves BM. BM seems to be really lacking some Raid Synergy. I think a good boost to it would be making Ferocious Inspiration raid-wide, but not stack up like it does now.
There is the exotic Worm pet which has a stacking AC debuff that is -2355 armor at 3 stacks, but I don't know if that stacks with Sunder or if it's going to continue to stack with it (seems a bit much if it did). It's also on a Tenacity pet which is not the tree you'd really want to raid with.
The problem I still have with marksmanship is the lack of effective mana regen through talents. BM has invigoration and SV has toth and Hunting party, while MM has..efficiency and rapid recuperation...
While these are designed to slow down mana consumption, they don't have the "feel" (for want of a better word) of active regeneration.
Originally Posted by Ulthwithian
Paladins do have an ability to heal multiple people at once. It's called Divine Storm. ><
This sounds like a semi-nerf. The primary target gets 100% damage for 1 hit, but only 25% for the next two ticks as AoE damage. 150% damage (single-target consideration), down from 300% (impact + two 100% damage ticks).
Can anyone on beta confirm this?
I wonder if the implementation of Lock and Load is a reason they would nerf ES a bit. Trigger 3/3 L&L for three freely immediately consecutive ES shots.. hum.. but forces stings (PvE).. nasty-fast damage from trap-triggering (PvP). Maybe they had to, also because of the change to Hunting Party. Arcane vs. Explosive.. *shrug* I'm back on the fence.
The way I read it, it's
"You fire an explosive charge into the target, dealing (416-486 Fire damage to the enemy target, and an additional 104-121 Fire damage to all enemies within 5 yards of the target) every second for 2 sec."
i.e. it's still a 3-tick dot, but does 1/4th damage to secondary targets.
The base damage seems to have been increased, which implies that they've reduced the scaling (which was needed, given it's extremely high initial scaling). Can anyone confirm the scaling for Explosive Shot (and, indeed, Serpent Sting, which was supposed to get a boost)?
It looks like the sting-based proc rate for Lock'n'Load may be too low for PvE... it amounts to one free Explosive Shot every two minutes. However, if PONE applies to bosses, is it possible that LnL might make it worthwhile for a SV hunter to stay at 6 yards, and run in once every trap cooldown to drop a Bear Trap?
You dont need that much. Just wait untill there is around 1 second left on your snare (witch will be happening A LOT with surefooted at 50%) press disengage and your off!
Actually, I'd switch it around to: Drop trap, Disengage, Master's Call, etc.
Actually there's some benefit to having the one spec with the stacking, non-synergistic buff.
In WOTLK, if you have one hunter, you make him SV (assuming the EW + HP makes up for no TSA and less personal damage). Then if you have two hunters, you make the second MM (for TSA). If you've got a 3rd hunter or even a 4th hunter you make them both BM.
If FI is raidwide and non-stacking then a 4th hunter is much worse than a 3rd, but a 3rd is a huge boost over a 2nd. If FI is partywide and stacking then it evens out. The 2->3 jump is smaller, and the 3->4 jump is bigger.
If Blizzard is aiming for wanting 2 of each class to get the best buffs, with a 3rd in the class being handy but not overpowering, same with a 4th. I think the current FI solves that goal better.
You'd pretty much never want 4 hunters in a raid regardless. With how Lich King is shaping up, really, you'd only want 2. Raid Synergy is getting to be a ridiculously huge deal and theme in this expansion and there's no class you want to stack up to 4 and most of them only 2.
Blizzard have some work cut out for them if they want BMs to be using Arcane and Serpent over Steady, given that they have absolutely no incentives to do so. 4% base mana on Steady, 7% on Arcane, 9% on Serpent, and Steady scaling from weapon damage and ammo in addition to having a higher AP coefficient, though a lower base damage.
These changes make me pretty excited for a Survival PvP build. Mobility will be higher than it ever has been, and Lock and Load provides for some awesome burst damage while escaping from melee or if someone happens to wander into a trap you set.
I would imagine a Bear Trap + Explosive Shot (15% change to stun from TNT) x 3 to be pretty devastating, only leaving me to wonder if Explosive Shot's DoT will stack with itself so that none of the damage is wasted.
Also, I wonder if the part about triggering no cooldown applies to the CGD or not. The wording would lead me to believe it won't, but I'm really doubtful that's true.
You'd pretty much never want 4 hunters in a raid regardless. With how Lich King is shaping up, really, you'd only want 2. Raid Synergy is getting to be a ridiculously huge deal and theme in this expansion and there's no class you want to stack up to 4 and most of them only 2.
Yeah I agree I generally want most classes to 2 the problem with FI raidwide is that the 3rd *isn't* worse than the 2nd(3% damage to the raid is a huge buff), but the 4th is much worse than the 3rd, rather than being a steadier drop.
I don't *want* 4, but I'd like the 4th to not be totally useless because sometimes, due to attendance, I'm going to have 4. I'd like a 4th hunter to be a problem not because the 4th hunter is that much worse than the 3rd but because I'm dropping some other class from 2 people -> 1 and giving up his/her synergies.
That way I can aim for 2 of every class, and then fill in 3rd and 4th of extra classes(probably healer classes)
I'm thinking that Marks could really pull out to be the highest pure DPS spec on Raids for Hunters with the changes. And there's still Serpent Sting's upcoming upgrade to consider - making it so it will be something that every spec's rotation uses is going to be a fairly big boost to it.
You could also probably drop Efficiency and pick up Imp Mark for more Raid Synergy and to free up some points for your Survival Hunter. That's going to depend a lot on raid make ups and how much you'll be regening from others, but I think that's a real option. You pick up your Survival Hunter for EW and Hunting Party and Survival Hunters are going to be putting out some fairly nice DPS too with the changes to their tree. Then you pick up the Marks Hunter for the new Raid-wide TSA with it's new 225 AP max rank (isn't shown in the talent yet) and Imp Mark.
That leaves BM. BM seems to be really lacking some Raid Synergy. I think a good boost to it would be making Ferocious Inspiration raid-wide, but not stack up like it does now.
There is the exotic Worm pet which has a stacking AC debuff that is -2355 armor at 3 stacks, but I don't know if that stacks with Sunder or if it's going to continue to stack with it (seems a bit much if it did). It's also on a Tenacity pet which is not the tree you'd really want to raid with.
Wow... that MM build looks lean and rather mean. It doesn't suck up a lot of comparably lousy talents like now. What is good about MM is just better, and what is bad is more or less gone. +17% damage to tracked, marked targets, +14% AP, a good Chimera plus a nice sting, buffed up aspects, 6% ArP (that's 462 now on most melee bosses, no small bonus when you stack it, considering how many like MotB for it's 300 ArP proc now), Wild Quiver and Imp Hawk for some awesome synergy, raidwide TSA, some interesting pet bonusses (here the weak and odd 'extra' to Focused Fire actually makes sense) and of course 4% less damage taken.
I can't see how BM can compete with that. Perhaps BM still manages to slightly outDPS MM, but with the raidwide TSA the BM's group would have to be absolutely insane in damage to make FI cempetitive. Surv > MM > BM for raid DPS. Meanwhile MM retains the lead in PvP. I'm sorry to see that right now. I like my buffed up pet, but my spec won't we as viable unless it does vastly more damage.
edited for length -- why spirit bond instead of imp mend pet in your BM build??
For the 10% +healing for Hunter and pet. And then the regeneration is just icing that makes it a non-wasted talent if there are no heals incoming.
But I won't do without Imp Mend Pet. Now where to get those two points? Hmm... how about Animal Handler. Our pets are going to run with our hitrating anyway (which should be maxed, or close to), so the effect of that talent is merely 10 secs off Master's Call. Seems obvious to me.
Why wouldn't that be 22% total?
5 ranged wep spec
5 imp tracking
10 marked for death
2 focused fire
It seems extremely powerful to have all those options available in one spec, I'd be surprised to see the talent trees remain like this after blizz sees what they've done.
Last edited by Kajsa : 08/14/08 at 9:08 PM.
Reason: grammar
So far I've seen a lot of BM builds skip Separation Anxiety for Improved Tracking. Whether this makes sense seems to depend on how easy/advisable it is to stay 20 yards away from your pet. If a pet does 33% of a hunter's damage (not entirely unreasonable to suggest), then Sep. Anxiety is just as much dps as Imp. Tracking, only without the hassle of switching tracking modes. Plus, it will work on untrackable targets. If a BM hunter's pet accounts for more than 33% dps, then Sep. Anxiety actually is better.
Naturally there are a lot of variables in that but it will be interesting to research.
08/14/08, 5:57 PM
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