WotLK Talents & Abilities Discussion - Page 6

Lhivera · 07/18/08, 7:04 PM

Originally Posted by Gokey

Well, I don't think it would make sense to be only 15 points, as you wouldn't have access to the final 1 point talents. I'm guessing pets probably start with 1 talent point.

They would receive points at 20, 24, 28, 32, 36, 40, 44, 48, 52, 56, 60, 64, 68, 72, 76, 80, totaling 16 points.

Gokey · 07/18/08, 7:05 PM

Originally Posted by Sean

You need to fix your trees so it only takes 3 to advance to the next Tier of points.

I don't think it's possible with this template, unfortunately.

Sean · 07/18/08, 7:13 PM

Hrm, so 21 points with the Ferocity tree. I think I'd go something like this:

2/2 Cobra Reflexes
3/3 Great Stamina

2/2 Loyalty
3/3 Spiked Collar
1/1 Boar's Speed

1/1 Charge
3/3 Avoidance

1/1 Heart of the Phoenix
2/2 Spider's Bite

1/1 Rabid
1/1 Call of the Wild
1/1 Lick Your Wounds

Either that or go 1/3 Greater Stamina, lose Boar's Speed, and put 3/3 into Great Resistance

Btw, pets get resists automatically as they level - at 70 they have 120 sv all.

Roywyn · 07/18/08, 7:16 PM

Originally Posted by Sean

Btw, does anyone know a good way to really test the GCD? I'm not sure how to scientifically do that so to speak.

The best I could come up with was playing with Boom and haste effects - at 1.4 delay I could queue up my next Steady Shot as soon as it hit the little red bar the end of the Quartz bar. At 1.2 delay I could hit another Steady as soon as the shot fired off. Though at 1.0 I could not. 100 ping, for reference.

Working Theories of Theorycrafting as of 2.1

Type or copy-paste or make a macro that does:

/run hooksecurefunc("CooldownFrame_SetTimer", function(_, start, duration, enable) if start > 0 and enable > 0 then DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage(duration) end end)

Everytime you cast a spell, this thing will display all cooldowns of your abilities on your action bars.
That means you'll see a lot of numbers for your GCD, and some numbers of spells with an actualy cooldown.

Do a relog/reload to get rid of the numbers again.

Zediono · 07/18/08, 7:20 PM

Pet talents look good so far. I think for raiding you could use either the ferocity or cunning trees with good effect.

I have one question though. What happens when you have an Explosive Shot tick that crits? Do you get ToTH triggering for 40% of the mana cost total? Does this mean potentially 3x 40% mana returned if they all crit?

Also, do we know if Windfury speeds up ranged haste or pet haste? (I know the totem says melee, but we can hope can't we :P)

Zurai · 07/18/08, 7:21 PM

Originally Posted by Sean

1/1 Lick Your Wounds

Either that or go 1/3 Greater Stamina, lose Boar's Speed, and put 3/3 into Great Resistance

I'm not sure I'd take Lick Your Wounds unless they did indeed revert Mend Pet to a hunter-channeled ability. Did they?

Btw, pets get resists automatically as they level - at 70 they have 120 sv all.

That's good to hear. I was afraid they'd replaced the resists with Great Resistance - which is nice and all, but no substitute for resisting non-damaging debuffs.

Gokey · 07/18/08, 7:22 PM

Originally Posted by Zediono

I have one question though. What happens when you have an Explosive Shot tick that crits? Do you get ToTH triggering for 40% of the mana cost total? Does this mean potentially 3x 40% mana returned if they all crit?

That's how Multi-Shot currently functions with ToTH as far as I remember, so it's safe to assume that it will be the same.

I'm not sure I'd take Lick Your Wounds unless they did indeed revert Mend Pet to a hunter-channeled ability. Did they?

It's just an error with the display in the wowhead database.

Shandara · 07/18/08, 7:23 PM

With the pet talents, I miss the most important thing really... Resilience.

That or a crit reduction talent for the tanking tree.

Sean · 07/18/08, 7:25 PM

Well, if you have only 16 and no Beast Mastery, yeah I probably wouldn't take it.

However, with 21 points, there's not exactly a better option.

Zurai · 07/18/08, 7:26 PM

Originally Posted by Gokey

It's just an error with the display in the wowhead database.

Excellent. That would have been a bone-headed move.

In that case, I really just don't see a need to take a pet-talent to put my pet out of action for several seconds just to heal 25% of its health. Mend Pet heals more damage (5.4k at level 80; I can't imagine pets will have more than 22k health at 80) and only costs a GCD.

Sean · 07/18/08, 7:27 PM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

Working Theories of Theorycrafting as of 2.1

Type or copy-paste or make a macro that does:

Everytime you cast a spell, this thing will display all cooldowns of your abilities on your action bars.
That means you'll see a lot of numbers for your GCD, and some numbers of spells with an actualy cooldown.

Do a relog/reload to get rid of the numbers again.

Okay, I went and did that. I got spammed with a bunch of 1.401's. I hit rapid fire, same thing, 1.401 spam.

Zurai · 07/18/08, 7:27 PM

Originally Posted by Sean

Well, if you have only 16 and no Beast Mastery, yeah I probably wouldn't take it.

However, with 21 points, there's not exactly a better option.

Great Resistance seems better to me, even at 1 point. I'd probably also drop a point from Boar's Speed - not many outdoor instances in WotLK from what we've been told.

Zurai · 07/18/08, 7:28 PM

Originally Posted by Sean

Okay, I went and did that. I got spammed with a bunch of 1.401's. I hit rapid fire, same thing, 1.401 spam.

Try adding/removing Haste Rating equipment, if you have any.

Sean · 07/18/08, 7:29 PM

Hrm, probably 3/3 Great Resistance, 0 Lick, 0 Boars, 2/3 Sta then?

Zediono · 07/18/08, 7:30 PM

GCD = 1.5sec
You have 111 haste rating.
This gives you a (1 + 111/1576) = 1.0704 modifier
1.5 / 1.0704 = 1.401

...

Haste rating reduces the GCD. FTW!! :>

Sean · 07/18/08, 7:32 PM

Originally Posted by Zurai

Try adding/removing Haste Rating equipment, if you have any.

Yeah, had a few pieces. Went back and tested again - with haste gear completely removed it reads off a spam of 1.5.

So... it looks like Haste Rating effects the GCD, but not haste "spells" such as Rapid Fire, Quick Shots, Serpents, and Quiver haste.

Zurai · 07/18/08, 7:33 PM

Originally Posted by Sean

Hrm, probably 3/3 Great Resistance, 0 Lick, 0 Boars, 2/3 Sta then?

I'm a fan of Stamina over Specialized Damage Reduction for pets. I'd keep 3/3 stam and 2/3 resist.

Sean · 07/18/08, 7:35 PM

Yeah, I wasn't really thinking about Great Resistance in the first place though since you know - 75% avoidance is pretty sick and 120 innate all resists at 70 (higher at 80?) may make that 6-9% fairly irrelevant.

Heh, think putting the points into Cower for a 20% 10s damage reduction is worth it at all?

Zurai · 07/18/08, 7:44 PM

Originally Posted by Sean

Heh, think putting the points into Cower for a 20% 10s damage reduction is worth it at all?

It very well could be on certain boss fights, but probably not as a standard talent set.

And yeah, I dunno that Great Resistance will be worth it at all for a DPS pet with baseline resists on pets combined with 75% Avoidance. A tanking pet would find it useful, but without crit reduction tanking pets aren't going to be doing anything for grouping situations.

Negative · 07/18/08, 7:48 PM

Hmmm, Zurai, 1/2 Invigorate is definitely a possibility. I really doubt we'll be in any great need for mana in the expansion, especially if you typically raid with a ret pally anyway.

Sean · 07/18/08, 7:58 PM

Oh hey, the talent tree page that you made has Spider's Bite listed as a 2 point ability - it's actually 3points.

Mikari · 07/18/08, 8:15 PM

Looks like Moths are tameable now

PetTalentTreeFerocity.wmv - FileFront.com

Terp · 07/18/08, 8:20 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

With the pet talents, I miss the most important thing really... Resilience.

That or a crit reduction talent for the tanking tree.

Not having actual resistances is going to hurt too, especially as Lionhearted does nothing for roots or snares. Not exactly sure how Entangling Roots is going to be dealt with. Cooldowns like Bullheaded sure aren't going to keep up with spam.

Cheeky · 07/18/08, 8:27 PM

Originally Posted by Sean

Yeah, had a few pieces. Went back and tested again - with haste gear completely removed it reads off a spam of 1.5.

So... it looks like Haste Rating effects the GCD, but not haste "spells" such as Rapid Fire, Quick Shots, Serpents, and Quiver haste.

That's easy enough to model. Should I assume on-proc +haste abilities (like the [Dragonspine Trophy] or [Abacus of Violent Odds]) so that as well.?

Sean · 07/18/08, 8:29 PM

Originally Posted by Cheeky

That's easy enough to model. Should I assume on-proc +haste abilities (like the [Dragonspine Trophy] or [Abacus of Violent Odds]) so that as well.?

I'll go test the Dragonspine in a sec, I assume it works the same though.

And did you get that Steady Shot is effected by all hastes and the tooltip is just bugged?