It's better for tank thread, but worse for pulling. I don't think it's something to worry too much about. Also, as mentioned before, it could possibly even come out as a dps plus for us, since we can dump our aggro every 30sec, so don't have to worry about the threat that comes with the 15% damage increase.

As for the ES rewording: Just tested it, now ticks three times big on the primary target and three (two?) times low with its AoE-component.

That's a fairly big DPS increase for SV then. Since SV was lagging behind I'm guessing this was done to make it more similar to Chimera Shot. MM and SV should be fairly close in DPS now.

Now it's waiting to see if they change anything to BM. Excluding a lot of buffs for pets (most importantly Expose Weakness and non-stacking AP-%-based increases) hurt BM DPS quite a bit.

It did work like this for me with 8820 already. I assumed it was a bug because 3x 1000 (low end non-crit) to 3000 (high end crit) seemed a bit much for once GCD.

I must share my view of last night's testing run I made in The Old Kingdom instance as survival.

LnL now finally works from traps,or should I say trap,because it only triggered on Freezing, and never on any other. The bad
part is that for the moment ES does not take into consideration CCed targets, and if LnL procs one must be very careful
of the placement of CC and which mobs he is injecting the charge to. I wonder if it will be possible to implement CC
awareness tot hat shot or if this will be too much of "free cake". ( I don't mind having to pay attention to whom you are
shooting)

The Refreshment buff from Hunting Party, as stated already, is 15 secs and refreshes itself. I had 8400 mana last night
and it ticked for 48 mana. I think it won't be a problem to keep it up 95% of a fight(assuming 5% time lost from the
initial pull until it is triggered for the first time - for the record I had 26% crit at the dungeon run,level 78)

To confirm - yes, ES's wording was changed to clarify the exact mechanics of the shot - 3 ticks for the initial value on
the main target plus 3 ticks for the secondary AoE (does not hit the main target). Those crit based on your ranged crit
percentage and no longer on the spell crit one.

The new AotV is simply amazing, as it allowed me to get to full mana in 3-4 shots (usually ES,steady,auto was enough
to fill me up enough so I can switch back to AotH, assuming at elast one critted). I am not sure if Blizz will leave it be in
this state, because even with the damage penalty, the main concern comes for PvP, where mana draining the hunter will
be... well...yes I dare say impossible.

I also noticed they changed Furious Howl on wolves, it now grants Attack Power instead of a fixed value(first iteration)
and percentage(second iteration).

What kind of +AP and what kind of duration does it have? Or is it a pure AP buff on next attack?

A question about LnL: the proc is a buff on you (then can be dispelled by Felhound or other stuff?), or a debuff on NPC/enemy player (then him can see the debuff)?

ES and AS still share a cooldown yes (and this will apparently remain), as for it consuming MD charges, I would have to assume so, but I do not know for sure.

Only the initial hit consumes one charge of MD, subsequent damage does not.

I think the awaited change to Freezing Trap (the one where the trap breaks after damage done to it) will help with my
concerns, lets just hope they haven't decided to scrap that.

EDIT: What i forgot to mention is the general numbers I see regarding RAP. At only 78 with my T6 gear and 2 unenchanted
blues (cloak and weapon) when EW procs I have over 3300 RAP. When you add HM, elixirs, trinket, on proc AP buffs, and
other class buffs... you see where this is going.

Question is,when it will be too much compared to other classes? I love the one-tauren-army aspect but is it really fair?

I'd actually say PvP was an equal motivator for this change. It's *far* more involving than simply starting in Hawk and switching to Viper eventually and never touching an Aspect again. Or worse, just starting in Viper like so many do. It also makes Monkey actually feasible to use. As well as removing the incentive to spam drink on every fucking FD, I'd say this is a great change. And it's not like hunters would be the first class immune to drains.

Someone on the Beta forums brought up a good point, the new incarnation of AotV largely trivializes Intellect for us. True we can get 1 AP per Int but with the new AotV we aren't really starving for mana. Wouldn't this make Rogue gear that much more attractive?

Larger mana pool reduces the number of GCDs spent on aspect switching and (slightly) reduces the number of shots made with a 40-50% damage penalty. It's basically the same argument as Life Tap.

So far, with 1 int = 1 RAP talented, the mail gear holds up in total dps advantage compared to the rogue gear (i.e., they're about the same.)

A small nitpick: with BoK 1 Int will equal 1.1 AP.

1 Int = 16.5 mana (with kings)
16.5 mana = 16.5 x .5% = .0825 x 5 = .4125 MP5

Int will be a very good stat for hunters.

Well, I think a lot more people will get Combat Experience now with it being 3/6% Agi and Int, so Int will be slightly better than that (depending on spec, of course). Plus, with Hunter vs. Wild, now even stamina willl be worth some AP.

Obviously it's nothing I can test right now, but I wonder if something like 0/34/37 would be. Imp Hunters Mark, Careful Aim, Hunter vs. Wild, Survival Instincts, Expose Weakness, Lightning Reflexes and Combat Experience (that's +21% agi right there), would just lead to a ridiculous amount of AP.

So to put the LnL talent to rest, after latest tests :

LnL is triggered by : Explosive Trap, Immolation Trap, Freezing Trap
LnL is NOT triggered by : Frost Trap, Snake Trap

Also, it appears Freezing Trap does not brake on direct damage now,so its implemented. Absorbs in the 2000 dmg total mark before breaking.

You may want to check that "damage before breaking". On the mage forum it's pretty solidly believed it's 40% of targets HP before breaking, rather than "set amount N". That's for Frost Nova and the new 51 talent Deep Freeze, which is a similar effect. I wouldn't be amazed in this time of uniformity if you're getting something almost identical.

You don't need particular amounts of haste to stick to a rotation any more. Haste will be a fairly linear scaling on your DPS, with the only break point being where it takes Steady Shot cast time below the GCD.

That said, there's a distinct advantage in having Steady Shot at the GCD (or less) in cast time, because it means it'll line up with your other shots that much easier (especially the ones having 6 second Cooldowns).

Haste will always be a valualbe stat because Auto Shot is no longer clipped via Steady Shot. Regardless of spec, that is a mass increase in DPS. And if you're able to get Steady Shot down to the 1.5 GCD cast time, that means that you're able to add in an additional Steady Shot for every 3 fired. To use ugly numbers with no basis (love that kind of math):

2.0s cast time = 3 steadys per 6s @ 1000 damage per = 3000 damage per 6s
1.5s cast time = 4 steadys per 6s @ 1000 damage per = 4000 damage per 6s

Now, the non-BM Hunter community is at a point where you need 140 haste rating to maximize your DPS. Any more than that as MM or SV will essentially be a waste, unless you're dealing with a bad latency issue. BM Hunters are in an enviable position of wondering which is more important: more ArP to boost their normal damage or increasing Haste rating to squeeze in more Auto Shots.

More haste is never a waste, because white damage = large part of our total damage. It may be "less desirable" than other options, but never a waste.

BM Hunters also aren't in any better of a position, because in a raid (that isn't totally screwed up) you'll always have that 20% haste from Shaman or DKs to put it right at 1.5s anyways.

Quiver + WF totem = 2 / (1.15 * 1.2) = 1.45

On my post I was generally wondering if [Signet of Primal Wrath] is better than [Hard Khorium Band] when I have 78 haste.

It won't be a waste for white damage, correct. But I'm talking about the impact on yellow damage. Once you hit the 1.5s global cool down mark, any further haste is irrelevant.

140 haste = 8.8% haste

1.15 * 1.088 = 1.25

2 / 1.25 = 1.5 draw speed

EDIT: Should have read 140, sorry

Using the latest hunter spreadsheet, your gear, level 80, and a MM build, Hard Khorium Band is about a 3 dps upgrade over your rep ring, compared to the Signet of Primal Wrath being less than a 1 dps upgrade. This is without the windfury totem buff.

With that buff, the Hard Khorium Band is a 3 dps downgrade over the rep ring, compared to the Signet being a 1 dps upgrade.

Of course, this can change a lot by the time LK actually arrives, and even afterwards. Right now, I consider the HKB, Wrath, and badge rings about equal, so we need only 2 of them -- and you'll be junking all of them by the time you hit 80 with new blue rings anyway.

I didn't try the other combinations to encourage you to do so. Be sure to update the shot rotations when you change builds; it's interesting how they are considerably different.