Tyranna

Yes, that's what I meant. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Was the talent ever called Rapid Repercussion or did I just misread it the first time and somehow got it stuck in my head?

 

PSGarak

It was always Rapid Recuperation. The name fits the talent's effect. Rapid Repercussion sounds like a bad translation of a retadin talent (swift justice?).

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

Bovii

Seems that they've added a chance for Disengage to fail in the new build.

 

KraxisSingular

So they get a nice mix of Expertice, crit, hit and haste. Jack of all trade masters of none. Yet for them I believe that is close to perfect, they gain the most for initital points. Though +hit is not something they gear for directly. Overall I have ot say they set looks a fair bit better, eventhough it has about the same amount of stamina. But I won't cry if they get something good, they have been very underdeveloped for gear in TBC, needing to go Leather mainly.

What does make me cringe is the Naxx ranged weapon. I like the looks of it, but the Haste just confirms Blizzard's vision of Hunters stacking Haste, or rather it has the appearance of it. It looks to me that this weapon might have the dubious honour of becoming an item with which to distinguish a good Hunter from one that is less knowledgeable. Sort of how Spirit Bond Hunters are treated currently. Here's hoping that this weapon won't become such an upgrade over everything else that we pretty much have to take it (meaning I want there to be a realistic alternative without Haste). But with the combined 204 Haste rating on our set gear, I fear this might just be forlorn hope.

But those gauntlets are made of pure win. I have to say I love them, near perfect indeed. Ugly, but so what.
Looking over the leather gear it is obvious how they intend to keep us from it, Expertice. Seems logical really. Expertice on non-set melee leathers, no Expertice on rings, cloaks etc, stuff we should share anyway. But this more or less just lets Enhancers grab melee leather that much easier, though that is an issue between Druids, Rogues and Shamans.

 

Delanar

Source WoW Forums -> 9/05 Feedback - NAXXRAMAS (10 Player)

Mmmm..... hunter 3500, rogue 3000, everyone else about 2000. I did say, nerf inc......

EDIT: maybe not, DKs just got nerfed and he is doing about 3000 also

 

KraxisSingular

FF to when they are properly geared from that instance and I think the difference is just not as great. It appears that Hunters just have better current gear compared to lvl 80, than the other classes does. It would be wrong to nerf/buff based on the gear people bring from Sunwell etc, as it won't be what we will bring later (obviously).

 

Fooma

*ignore*

 

Chul

Any word on pet specials scaling with AP? Ghostcrawler mentioned it a little while ago, and I'm wondering if they've actually done it yet.

 

Shandara

And conversely, pets getting +hit from the hunter?

WotLK Hunter DPS Spreadsheet

 

sjogren

Besides the truckload of haste (bad!), what boggles me the most is the amount of AP compared to agi... Why do they spend more itemization points on AP than on agi? Or is this the case in TBC too and I'm just blind?

Edit: Yes, I know you get 2 AP per agi, but look at the rusted-link gauntlets again, 116 AP vs 48 agi. More than twice as much AP, and thus more itemization points spent on AP than on agi.

 

Shandara

AP costs less per item budget point than agility, so naturally you'll see more of it. I think it was 2 AP for the price of 1 Agi, but don't hold me to that.

WotLK Hunter DPS Spreadsheet

 

Steelfleece

Well, those mail pieces with no haste rating but crit/hit look very appealing to me.

affect –verb (used with object) 1. to act on; produce an effect or change in
effect –noun 1. something that is produced by an agency or cause; result; consequence
Know the difference.

 

takel

Quite honestly, the main problem with haste on hunter gear is that it doesn't effect enough of a hunter's DPS.

Let's have a very generous breakdown:
Hunter/Pet split: 80/20
Hunter's DPS split: 55% Steady, 45% Auto

Please don't think too hard about those number breakdowns. They're just an example reference point.

This means haste affects 0.8*0.45 = 36% of a hunter's overall DPS. While haste is still useful for the auto shot department, 36% is approximately half of that of a combat sword rogue. A log from one of my guild's rogues clocks the auto-attack as being around 69% of their overall DPS counting all sources including poisons.

Yes, I will acknowledge that comparing us to rogues is probably not the best way to do things since not all classes are equal. However, it shows that haste is a very expensive DPS stat for us once the spec you choose with the given buffs break the 1.5sec mark for Steady Shot since we get roughly half of the overall effect on DPS compared to a rogue.

What can be done? Give it to the pet as well. Tah dah, haste now affects around 50% of the DPS, which is a bit better. Looking at the numbers from a BM point of view which relies a lot more on auto-shots, it becomes a lot more viable to itemise for hunter, though still not quite perfect, it's at least a starting point.

The little bird is whispering to me that time is or has run out, and that we're unlikely to see many more if any major mechanical changes save an ability here and there. That frustrates me that once again that it appears that it was largely idiots who grabbed a beta key and a golden opportunity to retune and overhaul the class was missed.

It is virtually impossible to balance a class well for the sake of scalability if you don't take all components of a class into consideration when you are attempting to project how they will react to changing stats. Our pets are still stuck in Molten Core and Black Wing Lair days. Apart from ridiculously fast agi to crit conversions, the only way to beef up their damage externally from their innate stats is to stack their AP. Meanwhile, we now have new stats such as haste, armour penetration and expertise to spread out the itemisation budget and provide a way to boost DPS in more subtle ways other than big numbers = bigger numbers. Heck, look at the way we have a band aid called 'Happiness' giving 25% bonus damage. That effectively means that all stat increases have a 25% greater effect on the pet, not counting family bonuses which stack on another 10% on top of that.

 

Pintofbrew

You're out of date, Takel. Latest simulations show, at the very least, you'll be using a sting and a shot beside SS. Be it ES, CS or AS, depending on spec. Not to mention, your numbers seem to reflext current live, so I assume you're referring to BM. Last I checked, lvl 80 BM will be getting a lot more than 20% from his pet.

"Do not offend the chair leg of truth. It is wise and terrible. Continue."
-Spider Jerusalem

 

Onouris

Why would BM be using Arcane Shot? Must have missed how they made that good.

 

Havok

I believe the idea is that BM uses Arcane, MM uses Chimera & Surv uses Explosive Shot, in addition to stings and SS. I would say that's part of the effort to give each tree it's own variety.

 

Onouris

Yeah but using Arcane now is a drop in DPS, how have they changed it so that it's suddenly ok to use?

 

Sin86

i dont understand why there is no hunter level 80 gear with hit, each item got haste but i saw only one item with 40 hit rating and the bow with 16 hit rating.
at level 80 we'll need 9x32.78998947=296 hit rating, so just wondering how could it be done if they replace hit with haste on all items

 

KraxisSingular

While the relative lack of hit on our setgear is disturbing, it is 'only' five pieces. It isn't as if there is no other option for hit. In any case it doesn't look like we even should be using our setgear.

 

Sin86

Did you examine neck/wrist/waist/feet/finger/back/weapon items? There is really not enough hit rating. At least, this is what i feel. :/

 

Doncabesa

BM hunters are supposed to spec into Improved Arcane Shot which is now a +15% damage done 3 pointer in the early MM tree, this change was weeks ago btw.

 

Shandara

Even with improved arcane shot, it should outperform Steady Shot by a reasonable margin. With Invigoration and other mana regens the mana cost should never be prohibitive (I guess you could even use the Glyph since you'll be using Serpent Sting regardless).

WotLK Hunter DPS Spreadsheet

 

Onouris

Do you have a link to the build you'd use for that then? I'm not seeing that choice being better than anything you'd take the points out of for it.

 

Tyne2

Steady Shot scales too well, I don’t see Arcane Shot outperforming it.

A lot of players seem to be reporting over 3k RAP, ranged weapons have been shown with over 140 DPS, and there are 67.5 DPS arrows. Wouldn’t Steady Shot end up around 1461, while Arcane Shot would be around 942 without Imp AS, 1083 with? So without talents they break even at 35.5% damage reduction, with talents it’s lowered to 26%.

Considering a BM Hunter will always have Steady below 1.5 seconds, I don’t see people throwing in Arcane Shot for normal rotations in PvE. It’s much easier to just blindly spam Steady, which if the mob is sundered will deal more damage for less mana.

 

Grogzor

So they either buff arcane shot by 40-50%, nerf steady shot or make arcane shot have some other effect to make it worthwhile. Depending on how much damage hunters are doing at 80 and where Blizzard sees us at being, then 1 or 2 are very likely answers. Although number 3 could be a chance for them to be cool and creative.

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