Shandara

Rather confusing given how similar talents work with other classes, though. So what you gain in mana efficiency on the spell you lose in DPS.

WotLK Hunter DPS Spreadsheet

 

Starwind

What is the 1 hour cd on the glyph (onmouseover the link)?

As far as haste is concerned one can hope that there are plans to reduce the GCD from 1.5 to 1 sec (I doubt it but it makes me smile). If this were true we wouldn't be nearly as concerned about all of the haste on LK gear (the opposite actually) and the new itemization would actually make sense.

 

Dralmoo

Is pet +hit based on Hunter +hit in the current beta, or is it just fixed as a function of level still?

 

Aerynlore

I believe that Glyphs are swappable, and the Use: effect places that Glyph into use. By putting a 1 hour cooldown on it, you can only put that Glyph into place once an hour, thus preventing hot-swappable Glyphs.

 

Trickytrout

Does anyone have some numbers on the current state of MM dps? It seems that with our gear having so much haste as of now, it may be worth while to compare MM and BM. Is it possible for MM hunters to reach the 1.5s wall for steady when fully raid buffed?

 

huntcaudata

It's not even really a question. A quiver and a windfury totem alone will bring steady cast time down to... 1.48 I believe.

 

Sartuk

I don't recall it being brought down quite that low, but I could be wrong. Either way, it shouldn't be difficult.

As for Marks DPS, the addition of a brand new shot (Chimera Shot) helps out the DPS capabilities of marks a whole lot (similarly, Explosive Shot helps out survival a whole lot.) I suggest you check out Shandara's WotLK Hunter Spreadsheet for yourself and see how MM DPS looks. If you don't want to, than I can simply say it surely seems to be a competitive DPS spec, at the least.

 

KraxisSingular

From the spreadsheet it looks more than competitive. It is downright better.

Steady Shot cast: 2.0 seconds.
Quiver haste: 15%
WF haste: 16%

Steady Shot cast after haste: 2.0/(1.15*1.16) = 1.4992
Haste is capped with WF alone for Survival and MM. It won't feel that fast because you still have some lag after each shot due to us not being fast enough to smack the shot as soon as it is ready. Even mousewheelers would be hard pressed to get a proper frequency. And unlike now your castbar will be full all the time due to the longer cast.

This also shows that MM and Surv can't possibly imagine getting to the cap by passive haste alone, at least not in the initial raids. The T7 set provides 6.3x% Haste. If every item has a comparable amount of Haste it would end up being around 12-13% overall, we also have ot expect such a massive haste stacking won't be easy. A massive amount of course, but not 16%.

 

Catalept

Let's hope someone at Blizzard is aware of just how underwhelming Haste is for hunters. Honestly, every time I see this "Physical DPS = Melee DPS" paradigm peek out from behind WoW's itemization or mechanics, I grind my teeth.

TBH, the best solution would just be to let pets get 100% of our passive haste. That wouldn't boost haste's usefulness up to where it is for melee DPS, but it's about the most elegant solution I can think of

I hope that's a bug. Although it increases overall DPS a little by stopping our Serpent Sting rotation from clashing with our Arcane/Explosive rotation, that's hardly worthy of making it a major glyph.

 

KraxisSingular

I can only agree. I tohught it was a most superb glyph at first, then I learned that it only prolonged the duration, not the damage, and finally it seems that the Steady Shot glyph doesn't require you to Serpent Sting, just a Serpent Sting. And if a BM raids with either a Surv or MM, Serpent will be up all the time.

This might of course stem from the belief that BM is supposed to be the spec that Scorpids. If the Steady Shot glyph required a personal Serpent, then I think few people would ever want to spec BM. Loss of DPS due to Scorpid, and loss of a massive DPS due to the loss of the glyph.

In any case, Scorpid appears to be much less important now. No crushing = no rush for crushing immune = much less need for Scorpid. Further with the general reduction of hard mitigation like Dodge and Parry overall, the value of 5% miss will diminish as well. 5% added to 50% is huge, 5% added to 25% is merely nice. It seems Scorpid is not worth the loss of DPS in terms of saving healer mana.

 

Sartuk

I keep thinking of WF haste as being 10%, not 16% for some reason. My brain fails me sometimes.

As for the "downright better" comment, yes, it seems to be downright better than BM. But not downright better than Survival. I'd say it's quite competitive with Survival.

 

Ravenfire

TrevvyTrev I'd like some numbers to back this statement up if you can provide it because I JUST tested this and found this to be inconsistant with my results (could be a bug or some strange talent related issue so numbers would be very nice).

WITH 2/2 Focused Fire, 5/5 Improved Tracking, 3/3 Imp Stings and the Glyph my Serpent sting ticks for 492 every 3 seconds for 18 seconds for a total of 2952. (no HM on the target and thus no MfD)

With Focused Fire, Improved Tracking, 3/3 Imp Stings but WITHOUT the glyph my Serpent Sting ticks for 492 every 3 seconds for 15 seconds for a total of 2460. (again no HM on the target).

 

Aym

I was wondering. Can anybody test if the charge from explosive shot is affected by haste? I mean, its effectively a dot, and dots are affected by haste, arent they? So with a 15% quiver, the 2 seconds of explosion would be 1,7 seconds, right?

I might be dreaming a bit, ofcourse.

 

Akston

DoTs aren't effected by haste. Spells are effected by haste and spell gcds are effected by haste. If ES is considered a spell, the only thing that would be effected is the gcd that the shot causes.

DoT scaling with haste, I.E. faster ticks/same damage over a shorter time based on haste, is one thing warlocks and spriests are pushing for and is one of the main factors that caused afflocks and spriests to fall so far behind in tbc.

 

KraxisSingular

But you have to agree that at this time, that is wrong.

Given how BM offers practically nothing in terms of buffs (groupbuff that doesn't stack with a raidbuff from a ret pally), and now even offers less DPS and is a walkover in PvP due to paper pets. What is that spec supposed to be in raids?

 

Sartuk

I don't agree that what I said is wrong.

Survival and marks are competitive with each other, while BM is lagging behind the pack. You're saying the same thing I am, but yet what I'm saying is wrong. I'm so confused (it could be sleep deprivation making me dumb, though.)

 

Catalept

... I thought Blizzard had explicitly stated that FI would be a raid-wide buff?

AFAICT, in terms of raid utility:

BM = +3% DPS
MM = +10% AP
SV = +2.5% mp5 (to 10 people... sorta... maybe more. It's a mystery)

I certainly don't see that any of those are significantly worse than the others (YMMV depending on raid makeup, of course).

 

TrevvyTrev

If you just tested it then you should rely on those numbers. I haven't tested it in build 8905, so it's possible that the glyph was changed for this build. I know several hunters (myself included) reported the issue (see this thread) so if it was stealth changed/fixed then that's good news.

I also didn't have 3/3 Imp. Stings or 5/5 Imp. Tracking when I tested, so it is possible that there is a bug involved there, but it seems more likely that it was changed in the latest build.

Not specifically, no. Ghostcrawler said, " We are moving almost every buff to affect the entire raid. There are only a few exceptions, and these tend to be short-term, bursty abilities." In a subsequent post, FI was put in the same category as sanctified retribution (which is raid wide). So far the FI tooltip says "party" when other talents say "party or raid." So we could conclude that it will be made raid wide because of the company it keeps and they just haven't gotten around to it yet, or we can conclude that it won't be raid wide because it is "short-term" (definitely) and "bursty" (I wouldn't say so, but maybe). But either way, I'm not aware of any specific statement regarding FI going raid wide.

 

KraxisSingular

Nono, you aren't wrong. I meant to direct you towards the situation of BM being considerably worse off than the other two specs.

I guess Trev said it better than I could. Blizz hasn't said anything on the matter of FI. At best we can speculate at it's future role. Raidwide and it is good, since we can reasonably expect a quite fair range on it (something like 45 yards shuoldn't be unlikely), whereas Sanctified Retribution is limited to an aura in melee range.
If it doesn't change, then FI will take a nosedive.

The TSA glyph quite literally sets MM apart from the rest. You want a glyphed up MM Hunter in your raids. 12% AP should beat 3% damage in a lot of cases.

 

Sartuk

Gotcha, bit of a misunderstanding on my part there

I think you're absolutely right on that. BM, in its current incarnation, is not really great for anything, really. Even leveling is debatable at this point in time.

 

Jamuka

Has anyone thought to test if the haste from our gear is increasing the rate at which Volley ticks? Lord knows we have enough of it.

 

Belgaryan

Source: WoW Forums -> Wrath of the Lich King: Beta Patch Notes09/08

Really wish they would remove the global cooldown from aspect switching and reduce the arming time to zero.

 

Kaejin

It's a start, at least. It shows they're at least willing to half-listen to our concerns on Traps and Aspects. We just need to get them to look at us while we're talking now instead of stare into the distance and nod.

I'm not too thrilled about Disengage having a chance to fail, as someone reported a few pages back. Intercept doesn't have a chance to fail. Blink doesn't (rather, it isn't intended to) have a chance to fail. Sprint doesn't give the rogues a chance to trip. Etc. etc. etc.

 

• Intermission

It's been quite a few weeks since I last logged onto beta, but I remember Disengage being dodged against a rogue and therefore didnt throw me back. Crippling poison also effected your Disengage distance, to the point where you dont actually leave melee range if the rogue was standing relatively close. I'm not sure if these have been changed or not. I'll have another look if I log on beta (edit: though I'll probably just keep on live alting to be honest. I dont understand how people can be motivated to play beta, knowing they're just going to be playing it again when it releases).

 

PSGarak

Disengage seems to me like a prime candidate for a snare-wipe talent, like Improved Sprint for Sprint and Safeguard for Charge/Intercept/Intervene.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png