Shandara

Hunter DPS Spreadsheet
This is a continuation of Cheeky's DPS spreadsheet (see here). It doesn't presume to be 100% accurate and is in fact only a theoretical approximation of a stand-up tank-and-spank fight. That said, I hope results are consistent enough compared to 'real world' practice so you can use the sheet as an item/spec comparison tool.

Made in Microsoft Excel 2007
No Open Office version available, SO QUIT ASKING OR KAUBEL WILL BAN YOU FOR BEING STUPID.

Latest EXCEL version can be found here: Version 93k (3 July 2010)

A good guide (courtesy of Har) can be found here.

Last Change log:
Credits:
Cheeky
Lactose
Ravenfire
Chul
Wertez
Indora
(and of course all the other posters on these forums)

 

Shandara

Frequently Asked Questions
(And How-To)

By order of popularity:

1. I can not change any of the values on the Settings tab.
Use the yellow column next to it, which is conveniently labelled 'custom values'

2. It is not working.
Be more precise. What is not working? A specific tab? A specific cell? A specific combination of gear? Are macros enabled? Is your macro security low enough? People have reported that windows sometimes flags the file as being from another computer and restricts what it can do.
Make a screenshot of what happens or upload the file somewhere so I can look at it, but MOST of all read this thread. Entirely. Most of the common problems have been asked before and solved.

3. I get a Runtime Error
If it involves importing from the Armory the most common reason for the error is that the Armory is down, not responding or too slow. Check if you can access your Armory profile with your browser. Keep trying or try at a later time.

If it happens when clicking a cell with a drop-down menu, this very rarely happens and just correct the value in the cell and continue.

<more cases to be added>

4. How do I save/create/load Profiles?
On the Overview tab there is a block named "Profiles". The names in yellow can be changed to suit whatever you want. Then on the Gear tab there's a line called 'Profile' with a drop-down menu. You can select the newly created name here.
Then make whatever changes you want to the profile, hit the "Save Profile" button and now you have saved the current gear set, talent spec and settings under that name.
Conversely, select a name from the drop-down menu and hit "Load Profile" to load any previously saved information.
Buff profiles work in the same manner. The names can be edited on the Overview tab and load/saving/selecting on the Buffs tab.

5. Armory Import says item/enchant XXX is not supported.
First, try to add it manually. If the item/enchant is in the drop down list for the gear slot then it has most likely been misspelled. Report it by PM or in this thread. For ease of searching hit the 'Alphabetize' button on the Gear Planner tab.
If the item is not in the list then it is not in the spreadsheet. Usually there is a good reason for this:
a) The item is green quality
b) The item/enchant is not an obviously for hunters (tanking leather with expertise for example)
c) I forgot to add it
If you strongly feel it should be added, post in this thread and include your reasoning.

6. My Shot/Pet Rotation is not working.
First of all, the rotation isn't really a rotation. It is a priority queue. The top ability gets to be used with the highest priority. If it is on CD then the 2nd. If that is on CD the 3rd and so on. Some abilities (Steady Shot and Claw/Bite/Smack) do not have a cooldown that is longer than the global cooldown. Hence if you put them as #1 they will take priority over everything else.
A proper hunter rotation (for MM-spec) would look something like:
#1. Rapid Fire
#2. Chimera Shot
#3. Serpent Sting
#4. Steady Shot
A proper pet rotation (for a Cat) would look something like:
#1. Rabid
#2. Rake
#3. Claw
The most common mistake made is that people put Claw or Steady Shot as #1. In which case the other shots/abilities are NOT used.

7. I/my pet am/is spec XXX but the shot/pet rotation says shot/ability YYY is used but I/my pet don't/doesn't have that.
If you make changes to your or your pet's talent points you need to edit the shot/pet rotation yourself. The spreadsheet doesn't do this automagically for you.
Also, there is no restriction to what ability you can put in a rotation. I haven't put in a ton of foolproof checks to make sure that you don't put Readiness in the rotation if you don't have talent points in it. Check it yourself.

8. I believe talent/ability/item proc XXX is not modelled correctly.
Good! Now please post in this thread and explain why and most of all HOW it should be modelled. But before you do, make sure you really have something new and have enough evidence (logs and/or screenshots) to prove it. If you are correct I will be more than happy to correct the spreadsheet.

9. What is the Rotation Test tab?
The rotation test tab is an alternate way of seeing how your shot rotation is used. It uses the same priority queue that the Shot Rotation tab does, but prints out how the shots are used. It accounts for the global cooldown and avoids overlapping abilities (i.e. using Bestial Wrath too soon after the last one if you have Readiness).
I originally made this to verify whether the frequency calculations on the Shot Rotation were accurate enough. They seem to be within 1-2%, so there is usually little reason to use this tab. There's an option on the Settings tab to use the calculations from this page as basis for all calculations instead of the frequency logic from the Shot Rotation tab.

 

KraxisSingular

I guess it is time to thank you for continuing where Cheeky left off. I'm certain we will gain a lot of benefit from this. Perhaps less so now, but I can see this as getting to know the mechanics now for easier and better modeling once it goes live.

 

Nakari

It's good to see someone pick up the fantastic work Cheeky has done for us all, I'm sure youu#ll find more than enough people happy to help you... I'll start with providing some base stats:

Level 77 Orc Hunter:

5358 HP (4298 base HP)
5512 mana (4547 base mana)

74 Strength
169 Agility
124 Stamina
88 Intellect
96 Spirit

313 RAP
1% Crit

Abilities:
Steady Shot (all ranks) - 181 mana - ~4% base mana
Aimed Shot (> rank 7) - 500 mana - ~11% base mana
Arcane Shot (> rank 9) - 318 mana - ~7% base mana (rank 10 is currently bugged and only costs 7 mana)
Multi Shot (> rank 6) - 363 mana - ~8% base mana
Serpent Sting (> rank 10) - 409 mana - ~9% base mana

This matches with the data from Marksmanship - Hunter - Skills - World of Warcraft , so I guess you can safely take those as correct.

 

Shandara

With the unlinking of auto-shot our mechanics have been very much simplified. It also means there'll be a marked change in what stats are worth, especially haste.

I've added a button on the Talent page to set it quickly to a semi-cookie spec; although I don't really have a 'standard' for the MM or SV trees yet, so if there's any consensus yet to what a cookie-cutter MM or SV build is, please post it so I can add it.

This saves you from having to swap all talents manually every time, because the talent scraper doesn't work on the current Armory (for obvious reasons).

 

Shandara

Update (see first post).

Small fixes, mostly regression stuff. Things I thought I had done already but must not have saved and such.

 

Shandara

Well, that is certainly possible, but the discussion is open on what the 'raid dps' should be then.

I don't have enough knowledge of the other classes to say 'TSA adds X dps per rogue, X dps per warrior, etc...', but if someone _can_ give me definite numbers it would be easy to implement.

Edit: uploaded version 55 again because I had protected some cells that were needed for Gear Planner. Gear planner should work again if you redownload. Note that importing function doesn't work. I have no idea why though, it saves the data correctly, it just hangs on reading the file.

Edit#2: It doesn't hang on import, it's just very very slow. It reads about 2-3 lines per second and it has to read ~2400 lines from the exported file. If anyone knows a faster way of doing this, please PM me.

 

Chul

True, which is why you'd probably want to use a seperate sheet, and allow the user to customise based on some rough calculated estimates.

There was a thread a while back that looked at what you're after: Cross-Class Numbers Request - AP:DPS

Alternatively you can download existing DPS spreadsheets, and just add in say 100AP and see what happens.

Just started to use your spreadsheet and noticed that my stats were wrong. It looks like the base race stats are wrong. It works fine using Cheekys, but changing race didn't seem to alter the base stats in your spreadsheet so it looks like its still using the existing values.

 

Shandara

As I mention in my first post, I don't know the base stats of races/pets from level 71-80 yet, so I used existing values of level 70 for each level to fill it out.

In relation to my previous post, I've solved the importing/exporting problem. It should be in the next version

Edit#1: You're right in one sense. I used NE level 70 stats to fill out every race. Next version should have at least the correct level 70 stats.

 

Shandara

Small update. Version 55a

Exporting/Importing is now done as a binary file, rather than plain text. Excel is apparently reading every single bloody line of text separately and it took my computer nearly 10 minutes to read all 2481 lines of text. Saving entire arrays at once in binary format is wonderfully fast.

Madness of the Betrayer should work again now (Thanks Sympa). I haven't really tested if every item works because I've only used my own gear to test stuff, so try it out and let me know if any other items are misbehaving.

I've added new target debuffs; whether it's feasible for them all to be up at the same time and 100% of the time is something I leave to others. Standard raid-buffs only have Misery and Curse of Elements enabled.

 

Chul

EDIT: Removed stuff about Cobra strikes.

Pet Hit Chance:

Pets gain the hit chance of their master too.

Rabid:

This will need to be confirmed by people in Beta, but it seems to me that an ability with a 30s cooldown that lasts 30s would mean it would drop off and then be reapplied, meaning the stacks would have to be added back? I would've though that only a hunter with some points in Longevity could truely make it a 100% uptime with the reduction in the cooldown.

Also, the uptime doesn't max out at 100% (if you add Longevity it goes to 146% uptime) so the extra AP from the ability is > 125%.

Pet Attack Power:
The extra attack power from Imp HM and Expose Weakness isn't multiplied by any ability/talent multipliers like Rapid or Call of the Wild. If you check the same thing for the hunter wrt EW, talented abilities affect it so I assume the same for the pet.

Buffs/Debuffs:

I'd look at Building Groups in WoTLK and add in the new buffs.

 

KraxisSingular

At this time it isn't implemented, they have just stated the intention that they want to do it. That doesn't mean it will have to happen. But for the time being it is a good bet to hold.

 

Shandara

The next version will have a lot more debuffs/buffs added.

What would be a reasonable expectation for a available buffs in WotLK? So we can set down a semi-standard set of buffs, which makes it easier to compare results.

The usual Feral, Shaman, Hunter * X group

I was thinking the following:

• Blessing of Kings
• Greater Blessing of Might (Do many paladins take the improvement talent?)
• Greater Blessing of Wisdom
• True Shot Aura (I guess it depends if MM hunters become popular)
• Leader of the Pack
• Arcane Brilliance
• Prayer of Fortitude (almost always talented)
• Gift of the Wild (same)
• Strength of Earth totem
• Windfury totem
• Unleashed Rage (for the pet if enhancement shaman)

The following buffs would really depend on how far spread out the raid is:

• Battle Shout (for pet)
• Abomination's Might
• Blood Pact
• Retribution Aura

Target debuffs is a bit trickier, since some are used by completely opposite specs:

• Improved Hunter's Mark (from another hunter)
• Expose Weakness (same)
• Heart of the Crusader (applied with all judgements now)
• Curse of Elements and/or Curse of Recklessness
• Winter's Chill and/or Improved Scorch
• Misery
• Sunder Armor
• Blood Frenzy
• Earth and Moon
• Faerie Fire

 

Shandara

Updated first post with version 56.

 

Prinsesa

Please do note that 5/5 Improved BoM is current +50% AP on the Beta, which means the level 70 version goes from 255 AP base to 382.5 AP talented, while the level 80 version goes from 350 AP to 525 AP.

I think it's safe to assume that yes, most Paladins can and will want to take the Improved talent when Wrath hits.

"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

- Ghostcrawler

 

Chul

I think they way boss health is used needs to be changed:

Firstly, I'd remove the selection of boss health.

Then average out Feeding Frenzy over the entire fight (i.e. 40% * percent of time spent under 20% for 2/2 FF) rather than having it either as +40% or +0% damage.

To handle Kill Shot, you should probably split the shot rotation into two: One for 100%-20%, and the other for 20%-0% then average the damage done based on the percentage of time spent under 20% similar to FF.

This should allow a much better representative average DPS over a boss fight.

EDIT: Just noticed Monstrous Bite calculations use 4% dmg per stack, when it is 3% dmg per stack.

 

Shandara

Mind you, the calculation won't use Kill Shot if it's not in your rotation.

EDIT:

Thanks for the catching that.

 

♦ Lactose

- Some talented pet abilities seem to be active be considered active even when no talent points are invested in the talent. Noticed Call of the Wild being active (giving 1% bonus to "Total invisible bonuses, this value seemed to be rounded up).
Call of the Wild seems to be active regardless if pet has spent talent points there, or even if the pet does not belong to the "Ferocity" familiy.


- Multiplicative bonuses do not apply to target debuffs. I've tested this with Hunter's Mark and Master Marksman - most likely this is true for all debuffs and all multiplicative bonuses.


EDIT:
- The spreadsheet is not using the correct formula for Steady Shot, it does not seem to be including Ammo DPS.
The correct formula is:
SteadyShotDamage = RAP*0.2 + AmmoDPS*2.8 + (WeaponDamage/WeaponSpeed)*2.8 + SteadyShotBonusDamage + [Dazed: DazedBonusDamage]

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

Shandara

Thanks,

Problem was that Call of the Wild only checked if it was in the pet's rotation, not whether you actually had the talent. Unfortunately fiddling with talents/pet family doesn't automatically update your pet's rotation yet (i.e. disabling skills that the pet doesn't have).

As for Multiplicative bonuses not applying to target debuffs, that's a new one to me. I'll take it along for the next version.

EDIT:
Thanks for the steady shot formula catch. I hadn't touched that part yet. Steady shot was also not counting the base weapon dps correctly. This will be fixed as well.

 

Ravenfire

Your math on Wild Quiver is off. It is 1/2/3 talent points for a 4/7/10% chance to proc in beta but you have it as 4/8/12% chance to proc in your sheet.

Edit: Chimera Shot does 40% of the TOTAL damage of Serpent Sting. Currently on Beta I see these numbers for non critting Chimera's:
NOTE: Current beta still has Chimera at 150% weapon damage
~1100 for non serpent stung mobs (after armor)
~2100 for rank 10 serpent stung mobs (after armor)

Math using 1.45% damage modifier for the currently bugged Serpent sting. Since a % increase to damage is the same when applied before or after armor we can estimate that Chimera's base damage as:
1100 * 1.45 = 1595 (after armor)

Solo play with my gear as MM spec, I have just over 3000 RAP self buffed. (Imp stings, RWS and SS bug applied)
Serpent sting rank 10 = (3000*0.1+660)*1.3*1.05*1.45 = 1900 (Currently Marked for Death only reads SHOTS as getting 10% bonus damage, so i am leaving it out untill i can prove that it effects both shots and stings)

based on your equation i should calculate serpent stings contribution to Chimera as:
1900 / 5 * 0.4 = 152 (pre armor)
152 * 0.7 = 106 (after armor)
thus Chimera + serpent = 1595 + 106 = 1700ish which doen't match up very well with what i am seeing in the Beta.

Using 40% of the total damage of Serpent sting yeilds the following:
1900 * 0.4 = 760 (pre armor)
760 * 0.7 = 532 (after armor)
Chimera + serpent = 1595 + 532 = 2127
this calculation yeilds results that are much closer to what I am actually seeing in Beta.

Also I don't think you are calculating Chimera's damage correctly with regards to how you apply the 125% weapon damage effect. The way i read your calculations is that you are taking Base weapon damage * 1.25 = chimera's base damage without serpent sting. But looking at your Base Weapon Damage equation you use a critical damage modifier of 133.9%. This should be the same 147.29% as Aimed, Kill, and Steady shots based on Marked for Death's 10% critical damage bonus to Aimed, Kill, Steady, AND CHIMERA shots. You some how need to include that 10% bonus damage for crits into your equation(s).

 

Shandara

Thanks for the report, I was unsure how Chimera worked since the wording on the tooltip isn't quite clear. The Wild Quiver is my mistake, I'm guessing the talent is actually 3,33%/6,67%/10% but they round it as usual. The Chimera base damage is also a thing I'll fix in the next version.

Edit:
With Chimera Shot refreshing Serpent Sting, this does boost it's DPS quite a bit. Chimera Shot is by far the most powerful shot.

Edit#2:
I also realized I'm not using the mana reduction on Improved Steady Shot yet.

Edit#3: Small update; version 56b

 

Ravenfire

I found another error in your sheet. On the Calculations tab for Steady shot mana cost you reference 'Shot Rotation'!E13 which appears to be the mana cost of Kill Shot (428) not steady shot (117). It should reference 'Shot Rotation'!E12. This would explain why I was startled by the very low dpm ratio steady shot has according to your sheet.

Edit: Also noticed that it doesn't appear that you are applying armor mitigation to Chimera shot which does physical damage and is thus reduced by armor.
P.S. Nice work so far on the sheet. Keep up the good work. =)