WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 10

meero · 09/09/08, 8:37 PM

Still a bug with spiked collar for tenacity referencing the wrong value. Not in the same row as for the other trees so blood of the rhino is counting as the spiked collar value in calc at the moment.

Still a bit of work that could be done with making the pet talent trees mutually exclusive across all values. Basically just mean putting the if Family=Feoricity etc... in all the other calc checks and making the talent point count check on only the active tree as well.

Dunno if helps but could prob just do the work and list the changes? i.e. In Cell C4 change the formula to this etc... just so takes a while longer for you to burn out

Chul · 09/10/08, 12:12 AM

Any chance of adding in the Replenishment buff?

Shandara · 09/10/08, 2:09 AM

Originally Posted by Chul

Any chance of adding in the Replenishment buff?

This is already in the next version. As for the Spiked Collar bug, it'll teach me actually check the row of a cell before changing the column!

The rest of the pet talents are either exclusive to a tree or not implemented (because they are not DPS-related) so I'm not sure what could be gained by making changes to them.

Chul · 09/10/08, 2:25 AM

Also, you may want to add in the target dummies in the target selection list. Someone from Beta will have to give you the armour of them (supposedly at least one now has armour

).

Rezdan · 09/10/08, 2:38 AM

Just wanted to say that we appreciate the effort. Great work so far!

Chul · 09/10/08, 8:09 PM

One thing which would be handy to see is the average damage of a non-crit and crit for each shot, so we can compare what the spreadsheet calculates compared to what WWS shows us. For example, we do our rotations against the target dummy, generate a WWS and compare the average non-crit in the WWS to the spreadsheet etc. Currently it would be hard to see if the spreadsheet damage calculation of a shot is correct without doing a significant number of shots since everything is averaged out.

There are two ways this could be done:

Simply add two new columns in the Reference table of the Shot Rotation tab (you could even add a third and list the expected crit rate for the shot)
Add two new Control Settings:
- Ignore misses/resists: Yes/No
- Use crit rate of: 0%/100%/Gear%

The first option is probably the nicest.

Chul · 09/11/08, 3:37 AM

For completeness sake on buffs, rogues have an equivalent of Blood Frenzy and Heart of the Crusader called Blood Poisoning and Master Poisoner respectively.

EDIT:
Also noticed:
- Wowhead shows Feeding Frenzy is now 6%/12% rather than 20%/40%. Not sure when that happened...
- The change for 'Pet skill rotation now limits use of abilities to the GCD' is missing for the first spell in the rotation.
- Wolverine Bite doesn't seem to use its prerequisite of being active only after a dodge, and the ability itself has its damage affected by dodge in the spreadsheet but that cannot happen according to the tooltip.
- Owl's Focus doesn't seem to do anything that I can see. I had my pet focus starved (so it could only Bite every 4.17s) and gave it 2/2 Owl's Focus and nothing changed. Quick maths: Every 3.33 shots the next is free so the focus is 1/4.33 or ~23% focus reduction with 2/2.

Shandara · 09/11/08, 1:58 PM

Update:

- Furious Howl now grants +2AP*LevelOfPet for 10 seconds
- Spiked Collar calculations now refer to the correct cell in the tenacity tree
- Aimed Shot and Steady Shot now have correct ranks in the spell selection again
- Kill shot now deals 200% autoshot damage + [30% RAP + 400]
- Aspect of the Viper now returns WeaponSpeed % of total mana per shot and reduces damage done by the hunter by 50%
- The shot Rotation tab now has a 'time to full Mana' indicator to show how long it takes to fill up from 0
- Cobra Strikes only affects 2 pet specials now
- Invigoration only restores 1% total mana now and has a 50/100% chance to proc depending on talent points
- Aspect Mastery only gives 30% of the AP of AotH (instead of 50%), Aspect Mastery now affects the damage penalty
- Lock and Load gives only 2 free shots now (down from 3), i.e. it'll replace only _1_ shot (since the other starts the cooldown)
- JoW now restores 2% BASE mana instead of TOTAL mana
- Added 25-man Tier7 and more loot from various instances
- Wolverine Bite now triggers only on a dodge and can not be dodged itself
- Implemented Owl's Focus
- T.N.T increases Explosive Shot critical strike chance by 3/6/9% instead of 5/10/15%

I hadn't implemented Owls' Focus yet, so that's why it did nothing.

Anyway, I need some help here. I need data on the new armor penetration rating. A lot of the new gear I've added it uses it and I need conversion rates between the new and old. And how it works. The rating converts to a %, no? This is a direct reduction of the target's armour mitigation %, no?

Edit:
Small addendum, uploaded wrong version:

67a	11-9-2008	- Added predicted crit/non-crit values for shots on the Shot Rotation tab. For best accuracy, turn on "Disable Averages" and remove all buffs (for solo testing)

Shandara · 09/12/08, 1:22 PM

Update:

- Redid HitDPS calculations on the gear planner. Removed the option on how to treat +hit. It should now properly determine how much of the hit on an item will be actually used and how much it is worth. This is on a per-item basis and compared to the item currently in a slot.. IMPORTANT NOTE: Rings and Trinkets and Weapons are compared against the TOP trinket/MH Weapon.
- Added Season 5 PvP gear and some more Naxx/Obsidian Sanctum loot
- Armor Penetration currently works AFTER debuffs (no info yet whether this is actually so, so don't PM me about it unless you have tested it in beta and found out how it really is)
- Converted all items with 'Ignore XX armor' to Armor Penetration Rating

I need more information on Armor Penetration Rating, most specifically about how it works. Is it applied before or after buffs?

Hopefully the changes to the gear planner should prevent the 'stuttering items' syndrome where you replace an item and re-sort the gear only to find another item has taken top place (because your +hit changed).

Shandara · 09/14/08, 5:26 AM

Update:

- Squashed some bugs in the gear planner logic to do with haste (it should more accurate now)
- Aspect of the Hawk bonus AP now properly turns off when you switch aspects
- Steady Shot rank 2 now has 120 bonus damage (instead of 150)
- New option 'Turn off Target AP Buffs', disables Hunter's Mark/Expose Weakness on the target
- Some pet specials now scale with 7% of pet AP (all physical implemented ones: Bite, Monstrous Bite, Savage Rend, Gore)
- Disable Averages now turns off Bestial Wrath, Rabid, Call of the Wild, FI, Kill Command and Monstrous Bite for pets
- Reverted JoW change
- Blood Frenzy target debuff is now also a 2% increase for the hunter (was still at 4%)
- Automatic spell rank selection now works on Hunter's Mark and AotH as well

If someone could test pet 'magical' attacks like Lightning Breath and see if they can figure out the scaling that would be much appreciated.

lairpie · 09/14/08, 2:03 PM

What kind of DPS numbers are people getting out of the spread sheet for their current gear, next patch, at lvl 70? I'm almost certain I'm missing something somewhere, but I'm showing me (4t6ish essentially done with BT gear, 51-10-0) at around 3700 dps fully raid buffed with the level 70 buff profile, level 70 hunter, level 73 target, with 6600 armor. Either I'm doing something wrong and need to keep digging, or there's a bug somewhere, or I'm a very happy man, leaning towards the first. So, what kind of numbers are other people getting for level 70. Oh, just noticed the glyphs, took those out and I'm down to 3550 which still seems, way too high.

Shandara · 09/14/08, 2:55 PM

Originally Posted by lairpie

What kind of DPS numbers are people getting out of the spread sheet for their current gear, next patch, at lvl 70? I'm almost certain I'm missing something somewhere, but I'm showing me (4t6ish essentially done with BT gear, 51-10-0) at around 3700 dps fully raid buffed with the level 70 buff profile, level 70 hunter, level 73 target, with 6600 armor. Either I'm doing something wrong and need to keep digging, or there's a bug somewhere, or I'm a very happy man, leaning towards the first. So, what kind of numbers are other people getting for level 70. Oh, just noticed the glyphs, took those out and I'm down to 3550 which still seems, way too high.

Well, first of all, pet's get a fairly hefty boost in their DPS from the new talents, but most of all your own dps is a bit higher than it is in TBC thanks to the linking of auto-shot.

Secondly, the level 70 buff profile may not be representative of a real-world DPS situation (i.e. it requires you to be tightly bunched up with all the raid-wide buffs available) and a tank-n-spank fight.

Lastly, while the shot rotation logic is _close_ to what is possible in real-world, it is still just an approximation and is by default set to 0 latency. Noone plays with 0 latency and it has a big impact on how tight the rotation is.

Still, if anyone could do some damage tests with the spreadsheet on a test-mob (like the training dummies) we could see how close we approximate reality.

EDIT: also, check your pet's level to see if it's 70 as well (I often forget that). As an aside, with my gear I should clock in at 3243 DPS versus a 6600 armor level 73 target.

Chul · 09/15/08, 8:00 AM

Note 1:

One thing I noticed when testing with TSA is that the pet doesn't get the bonus from the extra +10% RAP the hunter gains from TSA i.e. If your pet is > 45yards away and you turn on TSA, the pet AP doesn't change. It only changes when you get into range and it directly benefits from the aura.

My RAP (no TSA): 2566, Pet AP (no TSA): 856
My RAP (with TSA): 2823 (or 2566*1.1), Pet AP (with TSA): 941 (or 856*1.1)

I'd be interested in hearing if other hunters notice this as well as the spreadsheet passes the extra RAP the hunter gains over to the pet and then also adds +10% (so in the above the spreadsheet would calculate pet AP as 1005.

Note 2:

Feeding Frenzy is +6% damage per point, not +20% damage.

Note 3:

The simplistic result of me testing Lightning Breath is a +4.5% pet AP scaling, although it seems like a more complex 0.125% Hunter AP + 4% Pet AP.

I was playing around with Bite again and I am wondering whether there is different scaling across the different pet types. Would be good if someone else can also test scaling so we can get the best answer.

Shandara · 09/15/08, 8:12 AM

Took my Windserpent out for a spin, vs Blasted Lands mob:

Test 1: Full gear, no talents, happy Mood (125% modifier), Cunning (105%)

Hunter AP: 2055
Pet AP: 756
Spellpower: +264

100 Lightning Breaths

40-52 damage range

observed range: 96-111
(the actual range probably was either 95-111 or 96-112 but I must've been unlucky never to get it)

subtract modifiers: 96/1,375 - 111/1,375 = 69,8 - 80,72

29,8 - 28,72 bonus damage, avg about +29,3

Test 2: No gear, no talents, Happy and Cunning

Hunter AP: 441
Pet AP: 401
Spellpower: +56

100 Lightning Breaths

40-52 base damage range

Observed range: 74-90

subtract modifiers: 74/1,375 - 89/1,375 = 53,8 - 65,4

13,8 - 13,4 bonus, average about 13,6

It leaves me a bit confused to what it's scaling with. It sure ain't 1,25% from Hunter RAP or 7% of Pet AP

============

Next up: Wild Quiver and Chimera Shot

Stats: Hunter AP: 2055
Only talent that should affect things is RWS, I had Marked for Death but didn't mark things.

I'm using a Fine Light Crossbow, damage range 29-29, 2.7 speed so the weapon damage is fixed (well nearly, there's usually some very small variation).

Wild Quiver is hitting for 224 and 514 crit.

Wild Quiver is affected by Mortal Shots on the PTR at least, but the non-crit damage is puzzling.

According to the testing we'd done Wild Quiver should do (WeaponDamage + HunterAP/14*RangedWeaponSpeed) * 60% damage or
(29 + 2055/14*2,7) * 60% = (29 + 396,5) * 0,6 * 1,05 = 268 damage

Where does the difference come from?

So I removed items 1 by 1:

1977 AP, WQ hits for 215 (494 crit), (29 + 1977/14*2,7) * 0,6 * 1,05 = 258
1756 AP, WQ hits for 193 (444 crit), (29 + 1756/14*2,7) * 0,6 * 1,05 = 231
1582 AP, WQ hits for 176 (404 crit)
1416 AP, WQ hits for 159 (365 crit)
1294 AP, WQ hits for 146 (335 crit)

After some slight deliberation I noticed a trend.

EDIT: Forgot RWS so re-did my calculations

Take (15,89% of Hunter AP + WeaponDamage) * 60%:
(2055 * 0,1589 + 29) * 60% * 1,05 = 224
(1977 * 0,1589 + 29) * 60% * 1,05 = 216
(1756 * 0,1589 + 29) * 60% * 1,05 = 194
(1582 * 0,1589 + 29) * 60% * 1,05 = 176
(1416 * 0,1589 + 29) * 60% * 1,05 = 160
(1294 * 0,1589 + 29) * 60% * 1,05 = 147

A very close match. I'm not sure what the 15,89% signifies though.

Chimera Shot and Chimera-S Serpent:

Chimera Shot Serpent is dead on at the expected damage on the PTR. It still deals twice the damage the tooltip suggests though:
40% * SerpentStingDamage * 2

Chimera Shot deals slightly more damage than I calculate for some reason.

I spec'ed into this build, forgoing all talents that aren't passive stat boosts (no Mortal Shots, no Marked for Death, etc..).

With 2259 AP and the Fine Light Crossbow, Auto-shot Damage was exactly where I calculated it. No HM on target.

Auto-Shot: 550 non/1110 crit
Predicted Chimera Shot: 688/1377
Observed: 709/1418

Difference is small but consistent.

Indora · 09/15/08, 10:07 AM

First of all:
1,25 * 1,05 = 1,3125
Why do you divide through 1,375 to calculate the damage without modifiers?

Ok, assuming a 1,3125 modifier, here's the 'actual Spellpower':

Case 1 (756 Pet Ap)
Actual Spellpower = (96 + 111) / 1.3125 / 2 - (40 + 52) / 2 = 32,857

Case 2 (401 Pet Ap)
Actual Spellpower = (74 + 89) / 1.3125 / 2 - (40 + 52) / 2 = 16,1

Assuming the formula is
Actual Spellpower = Pet Ap * x
x = Actual Spellpower / Pet ap

Case 1: x = 0,043462
Case 2: x = 0,040138

These results look quite precise. Of course you didn't have exactly 74 - 89 damage, rather something like 74,8 - 88,9.
Assuming this little difference, it looks like 4% is possible. But there's another thing we have to remind: LB itself has a spelldamage coefficient, too. And it's most likely 0.42857% (casttime / 3.5, instant cast are assumed to have a 1.5 second casttime).
Using the result from above and dividing them through the spelldmg coeffecient, we get:
case 1: 0,043462 / 0,42857 = 0,10141...
case 2: 0,040138 / 0,42857 = 0,09365...

I'm confident we have a 10% Pet Ap -> Spelldmg coefficient, and the typical 42,857% Spelldamage Coefficient for LB.

The displayed Spelldamage is very strange... Assuming y = ax - b:
Spellpower = a * Pet Ap - Base Spelldamage

Spellpower & Pet Ap are known, here's a table for different Base Spelldamages & the two Pet Ap / Spellpower cases:

BS	X 1	X 2	difference
0	0,349	0,140	0,210
20	0,376	0,190	0,186
40	0,402	0,239	0,163
60	0,429	0,289	0,139
80	0,455	0,339	0,116
100	0,481	0,389	0,092
120	0,508	0,439	0,069
140	0,534	0,489	0,046
160	0,561	0,539	0,022
180	0,587	0,589	-0,001

Looks like the Spellpower shown by WoW is PetAp * 0.588 - 180.... Strange.
Well, I'm confident with the 10% Pet Ap -> Spelldamage multiplier, that's enough for now.

edit:
Argh, stop editing your post again and again!

About the 0.1589: It looks like your Ap modifiers (Master Marksman, Trueshot Aura & Survival Instincts) don't apply to Wild Quiver. 0.1589 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.04 = 0.19995976

edit 2:
Chimera Shot Damage isn't simply Auto Shot Damage * 1.25, it's based on the normalized Auto Shot Dmg.
Thus, it should be (assuming a 32 dps ammu, Blackflight Arrow):
(2259 * 0.2 + 10.7 * 2.8 + 32 * 2.8) * 1.25 = 714,2

Well, still not correct, but closer to numbers you saw.