afxwinter

I was wondering if this is in accordance to the weapon damage increase which went live last patch, and if the other weapons with the same ilevel have their stats updated on the latest spreadsheet, such as [Envoy of Mortality] I'm trying to test if there is a wider gap in the dps-increase when going from Envoy to Giant's Bane.

 

Apathy

PS (v88d) comes up as 591.06 dps increase for the three points. 422.48 (v88c). Pretty damn amazing for 3 pts, IMO. Yesterday I was thinking it almost doubled from the last version, which would seem off, but this increase doesn't seem far off (from last version to current). I do believe I did not have all the shots in the shot rotation of the v88c while I was comparing the two, forgive me, I was under a little time pressure to finish somethings before my raid. Sorry if I bothered anyone
This is just all from the spreadsheets. Just comparing taking the points out of PS, everything else stayed the same.

 

Hunterlin

It looks like tier8 4-piece proc internal CD is 60 seconds, not 45.
On average in every 5 minute test cycle with normal survival spec rotation(started with hunters mark) I could get 4 procs with last proc not long before or just after mark expires.
Did tested with pure steady shot in aspect of viper too.

 

Whitemane

It seems the 4T8 bonus is not being modeled very well by the spreadsheet. With what Hunterlin wrote, an ICD of 60 seconds and not 45 combined with the fact that wowhead lists the proc chance as 10% instead of the 25% the spreadsheet uses it seems that the set bonus could be devalued quite a bit from what it currently is.

 

RobotChicken

Even if the ICD was 45 seconds and the proc chance 25%, it's been shown that even under ideal conditions (1/3 uptime on 600 AP, or 200 AP passive) is rather poor compared to other pures' set bonuses, and is maybe a 100 DPS increase. Of course, this is probably unrealistic, and if the ICD and proc values are even worse, then it would certainly deflate the value of the bonus even more.

 

Whitemane

A 100 dps increase for a set bonus is poor? I'm sorry, I must be playing a different game! Whether a set bonus is good enough or not depends on if you can gear around it and achieve better dps. At 100 dps, you would be severely hard pressed to do that with just 2 items.

 

Crooks

The 'poor' remark came about by the comparisons done by EJ members and myself. It's poor when compared to the 4set bonuses given to the 3 other "pure" dps classes.

You're absolutely right in that there is nothing poor about a free 100dps increase (which is the very top end of the estimations) however when compared to other classes getting a 300+ dps boost from their 4set as well as (in the case of Rogues at least) increasing their scaling ability, suddenly the Hunter 4set starts to look very weak.

 

Whitemane

Eh, wow if that's true then I guess our set bonus really is poor - how are other dps classes? The rogue set bonus could just be overpowered compared to the rest.

Also something else, I watched on the rotation list and it seems Blood Fury incurs a cooldown according to the spreadsheet. I'm fairly sure that's a mistake.

 

Seoman

Seems like Waistguard of the Creator is Leather, but it appears even when Leather is unchecked.

 

• Varance

2T8 was fixed in the live build and properly factors into Chimera Shot damage. This needs to be re-added to the spreadsheet.

And yes, since 4T8 is now a 10% proc 60s ICD, you'll get more effective stats with 3 offsets than 4T8 once you have access to hardmode gear.

 

ankah

Was this change just included, or was it in the patch notes and I missed?

 

KraxisSingular

New to me too... You tested this yourself Varance?

 

• Varance

It was fixed but not mentioned in the patch notes. I just happen to have two pair of gloves (enchanted/gemmed Gloves of Taut Grip vs a fresh pair of Valorous Scourgestalker Handguards I just got off Emalon) with a 0.6 AP difference. Took off all my gear except Valourous Scourgestalker Legguards, Siren's Cry and Timeless Arrow. No buffs, no pet, no aspects, tracking fish, clean dummy. 7/57/7 Efficiency Spec

Taut Grip: 1219 AP Serpent: ~2629 (ticks of 375-376) Chimera Serpent 1054
Valorous T8: 1218 AP Serpent: ~2835 (ticks of 404-406) Chimera Serpent 1163

Serpent Sting and Chimera Serpent appear to have two different formulas when calculated in regards to 2T8. It looks like they just put a 10% damage multiplier on CS-S damage when 2T8 is present, but Serpent Sting proper is more complex. It also appears that Chimera Shot's sting renewal effect has a different formula as well, as the refreshed sting has slightly (1-2) less damage per tick than the original. This effect is not cumulative though, it refreshes for the same every time.

 

KraxisSingular

Good enough for me.

Surprise that they didn't mention this in any way. I guess they didn't consider it very big since so few are MM and so relatively few have yet to get two pieces.

 

Aern

Where was this posted, or is it just community testing? It really seems like a massive nerf to the proc and considering they are attempting to buff hunter dps seems like something you wouldn't want to do since it very nicely works for all specs. Not to mention it seems like my proc has been going off more this week than last week.

 

Hunterlin

It really is not a nerf, as Blizzard have not changed anything. Previous proc CD and chance in spreadsheet was just a guess. Our tier set bonus is not as good as some other classes. So hardmode loot may give more DPS in pure stats than tier set+bonus.

 

Nandei

I see reports of 60s ICD on T8 4 set bonus. I have to disagree with that, based on last night: Wow Web Stats. Here I had a proc of Precision Shots at 1:24'51 and the next one 1:25'39, 48s between them. Another at 2:18'36 and then the next one at 2:19'23, only 47s apart. Another instance of much less than a minute between procs happens at 4:11'23, the next one at 4:12'12, 49 seconds later. There are also several instances of just a second or half a second less than a minute between the procs.

Looking through the SV thread, I found a post by Rhy with two WWS reports, in one of which he had the T8 4 set bonus: Wow Web Stats. From there I am seeing the same results as from my own stats from last night: Precision shots procs at 0:27'56 and then the next time at 0:28'48, 52s apart. Then at 0:32'48, 0:33'40, 0:34'34 and 0:35'25, first two have 52s between them, then 56s and the last two 51s. All a lot less than 60s apart.

Based on these WWS reports from two different characters, I would have to say that the ICD cannot be a minute, but rather 45s as previously assumed. As to the proc chance, that does seem to be rather low with most of the procs happening more than a minute apart, so 10% seems more likely than 25%. Both hunters in the WWS reports were SV however and since the reports are from raid situations, Steady can be assumed to have the lowest priority, which will skew the results towards the smaller proc chance. I will try to get a WWS of the procs using a target dummy and nothing but Steady Shot, but unfortunately I will not have time to do it before Sunday, or possible Monday.

 

Vegelus

There shouldn't be. Or it should be small difference as both of them had their damage increased. Weapone damage increase made gap wider between ilvl213/219 and ilvl226(and higher). And that gap was big even before.

 

Rezdan

There's a slight bug with non GCD causing spells (Rapid Fire, Silencing Shot) in the Rotation Test. Currently both of these cause the next spell/shot to be pushed back by your latency setting whereas in reality these nonGCD causing shots would not invoke even that latency delay since you'ld basically be hitting the nonGCD and the GCD shot at the same time.

If i recall correctly, hitting a macro with Silencing shot in first line and Chimera Shot on second line would not cause the first to invoke a latency delay before the second fires.

 

Riemu

I have a question about 4T8 and the spreadsheet.

Does it factor in a different rotation/priority when using 4T8? Usually, the shot rotation/priority mostly used on the forums is Rapid Fire > ...... > Aimed Shot > Steady Shot. That's pretty much what I use myself - fire Aimed Shot everytime it is of cooldown and your other higher priority spells are on cooldown. Use Steady Shot as a filler between your Cooldowns.

But now when using 4T8, I have seen several Survival Hunters switching vom a Aimed Shot > Steady Shot priority to a Steady Shot > Aimed Shot priority, according to WWS Stats.

Wouldn't the best theoretical shot rotation/priority be:

Steady Shot > Aimed Shot --> Wait for the 4T8 Proc -> For the next 40 Seconds change Rotation to Aimed Shot > Steady Shot -> After 40 Seconds change it back to Steady Shot > Aimed Shot until it procs again. Rinse & Repeat.

What do you think?

PS: And if that's indeed the proper way to do it, does anyone know a addon out there to monitor your internal spell cooldowns, once procced? Gonna be hard to keep track of 40 seconds while fighting without a proper timer

 

Lilbitters

Hunter T8 4p Bonus looks to have an internal cooldown of 45 seconds and 10% proc chance from the testing that I did.

Steady Shot spam for almost 30 minutes

And yes, Wowhead lists the proc at 10%.

 

Rezdan

Firstly, there is no rotation. The spreadsheet models a priority. This means that prioritizing Steady Shot over Aimed Shot would ALWAYS mean that you never cast Aimed Shot, ever. Ultimately though, it would probably a bit too advanced for the spreadsheet to model something like "Steady Shot until Proc then go back to normal priority" especially since the spreadsheet (to my knoweledge) just averages out the 4pc bonus over the course of the fight.

Maybe Shandara can pipe in on how its currently implemented, and maybe some possible changes if we find its a bit lacking, possibly like introducing logic similar to how LnL is currently implemented in the Rotation Test.

 

Diffy

Not sure if this has been answered, but Furious Gladiator's Recurve along with all the other pvp weapons seem to not have a delta value assigned in the gear planning.

any info on this?

 

Shandara

Tick the PvP weapons box on the Gear Planner so it's checked and hit the "Ranged Weapons' button to calculate their dps.

EDIT:
Given the above discussion I have implemented ISS for the rotation test.

With a priority queue of

and 200ms latency it would lead to an interesting pattern; only Chimera Shot would be affected by ISS (rotation basically CS->Aimed->AS->3xSS) for about 33-37% uptime.

With the Glyph the observed shot sequence is more complex, leading to 10% uptime on Aimed Shot and 20% on Chimera Shot

WotLK Hunter DPS Spreadsheet

 

Diffy

got it, thanks