WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 11

Shandara · 10/03/08, 8:36 AM

Originally Posted by Nandei

Gear -tab is missing from 73b at the moment, I can only see Gear planner and custom gear there.

It's just hidden, you can make it visible from the VB window or download it again (I've re-uploaded the same version but with the Gear Tab visible).

EDIT:
After the comments previously about pet specials going off faster than the GCD of 1,5 seconds, I've been running a series of tests on it.

Using /combatlog I've been gathering data on both talented (i.e. Serpent's Swiftness) and untalented times between claws.

I'm a bit hampered by the fact that Focus regeneration is insufficient even with 2/2 Bestial Discipline and I'm hampered by the fact that Go for the Throat is streaky. Maybe my crit rate is too low to really keep it up.

Also, the combat log is naturally inaccurate. I'm hoping that sufficiently large amounts of data will smooth it out.

That said, with AotV, I could sustain fairly long bouts of spamming Steady Shot to keep my pet's focus up.

I wrote a little macro to sift through the combatlog in Excel and determine the average time between casts. When importing wow combat logs in Excel, be sure to use spaces, semicolons and colons as delimiters, since Excel was being picky about me using it's timestamps directly, so I had to split them up.

Sub CheckClaws()
    Dim LastClaw, AvgTime, TotalTime, CountClaw As Integer
     
    Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual
    
    CountClaw = 0
    TotalTime = 0
    AvgTime = 0
    LastClaw = 0
    
    'run through all the rows
    For i = 1 To 65000
        If Cells(i, 5) = "SPELL_DAMAGE" And Cells(i, 13) = "Claw" Then
            Dim NewTime As Double
                        
            NewTime = Cells(i, 3) * 60 + Cells(i, 4) / 1000
                      
            CountClaw = CountClaw + 1
            
            If CountClaw = 1 Then
                AvgTime = 0
            Else
                AvgTime = NewTime - LastClaw
            End If
            
            TotalTime = TotalTime + AvgTime
                        
            LastClaw = NewTime
            
        End If
    Next
    
    MsgBox "Average Time: " & (TotalTime / CountClaw)
    
    Application.Calculation = xlCalculationAutomatic
    
End Sub

I ran both untalented and talented a number of times.

Talented (with 5/5/ SS) the average time between Claws fluctuates between 1.1 and 1.2 seconds.
Untalented it was between 1.35s and 1.45s.

It would point to a possibility that Serpent's Swiftness affects pet GCD, but we probably need more tests.

Cranch · 10/03/08, 5:36 PM

I don't know VB, but there appear to be a couple of bugs in your function.

Assuming Cells(i,3) is integral seconds and Cells(i,4) integral milliseconds, the seconds value will wrap back to 0 every minute. So you want to add an additional test: if (AvgTime < 0) AvgTime = AvgTime + 60 . That's a bit of an hack as it does assume the time between claws is no longer than 30 seconds.

The other possible bug is that AvgTime and TotalTime are declared as Integer and not Double.

Shandara · 10/03/08, 5:54 PM

Originally Posted by Cranch

I don't know VB, but there appear to be a couple of bugs in your function.

Assuming Cells(i,3) is integral seconds and Cells(i,4) integral milliseconds, the seconds value will wrap back to 0 every minute. So you want to add an additional test: if (AvgTime < 0) AvgTime = AvgTime + 60 . That's a bit of an hack as it does assume the time between claws is no longer than 30 seconds.

The other possible bug is that AvgTime and TotalTime are declared as Integer and not Double.

I know about the wrapping, but Cells(i,3) is integral _minutes_ and Cells(i,4) is milliseconds (hence I divide it by 1000 to get the seconds).

It may seem as if I declare all variables as Integers, but in fact Excel requires you to put 'As Integer' behind every variable name. So TotalTime is in fact a Variant variable (undeclared). I only declared CountClaw as Integer to make it easier to read.

Chul · 10/03/08, 7:16 PM

Removing Rapid Fire and Bestial Wrath (or Beast Within) from the Shot Rotation table doesn't stop their modifiers from being used in calculations.

Originally Posted by Shandara

I know about the wrapping, but Cells(i,3) is integral _minutes_ and Cells(i,4) is milliseconds (hence I divide it by 1000 to get the seconds).

Maybe the combatlog for EU is different, but for me using the US client, it is minutes and seconds, not miliseconds, so I had to remove the /1000.

I then used your macro when some modifications (I printed the max claw time for reference, and the number of claws to see if it matched the spreadsheet. I also hardcoded my pet name in as part of the check since the number of claws was higher then expected). The macro printed 1.21s average and 1.6s highest when I had no haste talents like Serp Swiftness and Cobra Reflexes.

Since a new build is being pushed onto the PTR, I'll redo the testing.

EDIT:

There is also a bug in your calculations since if there are two claws, you only want to divide the total time by 1 since you've only got one duration.

Here is the macro code I used which accurately matched the numbers from my spreadsheet when doing it by hand (which is now 1.25s, or what I reported earlier):

NOTE: I've hardcoded my pet name in there to stop other Claws from being counted.

Sub CheckClaws()
    Dim LastClaw, AvgTime, TotalTime, CountClaw, MaxTime, Row As Integer
     
    Application.Calculation = xlCalculationManual
    
    CountClaw = 0
    TotalTime = 0
    AvgTime = 0
    LastClaw = 0
    MaxTime = 0
    MaxTimeRow = 0
    
    'run through all the rows
    For i = 1 To 65000
        If Cells(i, 5) = "SPELL_DAMAGE" And Cells(i, 7) = "Fang" And Cells(i, 13) = "Claw" Then
            Dim NewTime As Double
                        
            NewTime = Cells(i, 3) * 60 + Cells(i, 4)
                      
            CountClaw = CountClaw + 1
            
            If CountClaw = 1 Then
                AvgTime = 0
            Else
                AvgTime = NewTime - LastClaw
            End If
            
            If AvgTime > MaxTime Then
                MaxTime = AvgTime
                MaxTimeRow = i
            End If
            
            TotalTime = TotalTime + AvgTime
                        
            LastClaw = NewTime
            
        End If
    Next
    
    MsgBox "Average Time: " & (TotalTime / (CountClaw - 1)) & Chr(13) & "Max Time: " & MaxTime & " (" & MaxTimeRow & ")" & Chr(13) & "Number of Claws: " & CountClaw
    
    
    Application.Calculation = xlCalculationAutomatic
    
End Sub

EDIT 2:
Just tested on the PTR and got 1.25s again using this temp build and about the same when using full talents.

samfisher · 10/04/08, 1:52 AM

Hmm, I'm getting an error when I try to click the CalcAttributes button on the Gear tab. Scanning from the Armory gives some slots #N/A. Here are the screenshots, might help. Something about run-time error 13.

Error Message

Debug Text

Shandara · 10/04/08, 6:00 AM

@Chul:
I've adapated my test with your corrections and arrived at roughly the same figures. It leaves me puzzled what is going on. Should we just conclude that pets have a 1.25s GCD?

@Samfisher
My bad, some head items have the meta socket in different places. Your PvP helm is one of them. This will be fixed in the next release. In the meantime you can just swap the gems.

Midnight · 10/04/08, 6:21 AM

Found another small bug. When I use gems matching the socket colors in a Valorous Cryptstalker Tunic it says socket bonus achieved but doesn´t really add it. The same is the case for the Truesight Ice Blinders and Nesingwary 4000.

Shandara · 10/04/08, 6:49 AM

Originally Posted by Midnight

Found another small bug. When I use gems matching the socket colors in a Valorous Cryptstalker Tunic it says socket bonus achieved but doesn´t really add it. The same is the case for the Truesight Ice Blinders and Nesingwary 4000.

These items are missing their socket bonuses. Should be fixed next release.

EDIT:
While testing the level 80 premades and checking pet stats and such I noticed pets now seem to gain 45% of the Hunter's total Armor.

Also, the amount displayed on the hunter's character tab and the amount gained on the pet's tab differ. Display issue? Same goes for stamina.

Update:

- Rapid Fire and Bestial Wrath/TBW in the shot priority queue now control whether their effects are used in the calculations, rather than being 'always on'
- Added level 80 Night Elf stats and level 80 pet base stats
- Pets now gain 45% of the hunter's Armor
- Thick Hide now also increases Hunter's Armor
- Fixed meta gems on helms and some missing socket bonuses on various items

Chul · 10/04/08, 9:20 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

@Chul:
I've adapated my test with your corrections and arrived at roughly the same figures. It leaves me puzzled what is going on. Should we just conclude that pets have a 1.25s GCD?

Certainly seems that way. But is only is 1.25s when on auto-cast. A UI hooks shows it has a 1.5s GCD but that is probably for manual casting.

Perhaps you should add a field where we can enter the pet GCD in case they "fix" it and give it a default of 1.25s.

Azuol · 10/05/08, 7:47 AM

First off I will say thank you for continuing with a spreadsheet for us.

With that said I took a look at it and entered in all the specs as I am now on live but with a new MM spec for when 3.0 hits and the sheet predicts my DPS output to be around 2700 DPS. Now that seems a little high to begin with for a level 70 in my current gear(BT/MH), but the real problem is that on the PTR I have tested it and I only seem to get at max 1500+ DPS. I know that ArPen seems to be broken but this big of a discrepancy worries me. Am I doing something wrong on the spreadsheet or is the content on the PTR not completely functioning the way it is supposed to?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Shandara · 10/05/08, 8:08 AM

Did you turn off all buffs and set your pet to level 70 if you are solo-testing the PTR?

Azuol · 10/05/08, 6:56 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

Did you turn off all buffs and set your pet to level 70 if you are solo-testing the PTR?

Opps, Well that seemed to be the big problem I forgot to turn off buffs. It seems the numbers now are much closer to be accurate now

Thanks for a reply. And again thanks for the spreadsheet it is helping a lot with my theorycrafting

sihyunie · 10/05/08, 11:43 PM

it seems like, now that pet skills all scale w/ ap, 1 hit > 2 ap > 1 agi according to the spreadsheet. Just want some confirmation from other ppl on that.
Also, different ranks of go for the throat doesn't change the dps (@40+% crit). I'm not sure how it is modeled so can't quite check it.

Shandara · 10/06/08, 3:08 AM

Originally Posted by sihyunie

it seems like, now that pet skills all scale w/ ap, 1 hit > 2 ap > 1 agi according to the spreadsheet. Just want some confirmation from other ppl on that.
Also, different ranks of go for the throat doesn't change the dps (@40+% crit). I'm not sure how it is modeled so can't quite check it.

The most likely cause is that because if you have a 40% crit rate Go for the Throat generates enough focus with 1 point in it (if you have Bestial Discipline) to satisfy your pet.

On paper this is correct. In practice you'll want 2/2 GftT to eliminate streakiness for your pet.

And yes, +hit is the biggest DPS upgrade until you get capped, then it's AP/agi, followed by Crit/ArP.

Azuol · 10/06/08, 7:52 AM

@sihyunie

I was also interested in whether or not AP is going to be our main stat again as MM, over Agi. On the spreadsheet Agi seems to bring me more DPS as MM at level 70. When I switch over to level 80 it would appear that AP brings us more DPS than Agi.

I am guessing that AP scales better than Agi for MM as we level to 80. The fact that TSA (with glyph) will give 12% more AP will add up since that will end up scaling better at 80 as well. Seeing as MM used to be based around AP more so than Agi, it would make sense that it remains that way.

I do not have beta access so I cannot confirm any of this so it would be great for someone that does to shed a little light as to what gems you use as MM when raiding at 80.

Zala · 10/06/08, 7:57 AM

The +20 AGI gem - Delicate Cardinal Ruby - couts as a yellow gem atm.

//edit

Looks like only the small box in the top right counts it as a yellow gem. The metagem Relentless Earthstorm Diamont worked. Although the box said i had only 1 red gem equipped.

Zala · 10/06/08, 8:18 AM

Oh and i forgot my mainissue. Readiness doesnt reset the Bestial Warth Cooldown on Beta-Realms.

Shandara · 10/06/08, 9:06 AM

Originally Posted by Zala

Oh and i forgot my mainissue. Readiness doesnt reset the Bestial Warth Cooldown on Beta-Realms.

I (we) are assuming that's a bug. Or at least let's hope so.

Ebonleaf · 10/06/08, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

I (we) are assuming that's a bug. Or at least let's hope so.

BW is pet based, not hunter based. Readiness affects hunter cooldowns.

Shandara · 10/06/08, 1:16 PM

Originally Posted by Ebonleaf

BW is pet based, not hunter based. Readiness affects hunter cooldowns.

By that logic The Beast Within should be reset, since it affects the hunter. It is a spell the hunter casts on himself and the pet.

That sort of logic doesn't often count with Blizzard though. It's probably intentional and intended to curb BM dps/PvP.

Mathorli · 10/06/08, 6:31 PM

I think the point, is that the spell your casting is Bestial Wrath, which only effects the pet. Its a different talent that sends us into the rage too. But all in all, it is most likely to keep our BM dps in balance.

Hellraza · 10/07/08, 6:31 AM

First of all, you have done a really good job with the spreadsheet so far. Keep it up.

Now, I have posted like 1-2 times before on the EJ forums so I am sorry if the thing I am going to say has already been brought up. Tried searching the post quickly but couldn't find anything.
Anyway, I was playing around with the talents today and noticed that Rapid Recuperation is 3 points in the spreadsheet and it should be 2. Also, at the Rotation Test tab the number of Serpent Stings always remains 0, no matter where I put it in the priority list. I am sure I am missing something, but I cant figure out what.

Shandara · 10/07/08, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Hellraza

First of all, you have done a really good job with the spreadsheet so far. Keep it up.

Now, I have posted like 1-2 times before on the EJ forums so I am sorry if the thing I am going to say has already been brought up. Tried searching the post quickly but couldn't find anything.
Anyway, I was playing around with the talents today and noticed that Rapid Recuperation is 3 points in the spreadsheet and it should be 2. Also, at the Rotation Test tab the number of Serpent Stings always remains 0, no matter where I put it in the priority list. I am sure I am missing something, but I cant figure out what.

Most oftenly people put the shots in the wrong order. You want Steady Shot as the _lowest_ priority, so put Serpent Sting and any other shots above it.

Thanks for catching the Rapid Recuperation thing. It's not implemented at the moment so I hadn't really kept up with the talent points involved.

Ravenfire · 10/07/08, 2:35 PM

Shandara,

There appears to be an error in the calculation of Scorpid Poison on the pet calculation tab. It looks like the dps of the ability is calculated as (damage modifier / duration) leaving out the actual damage of the ability and giving a 5 stack of Scorpid poison a dps of less then 1.

Edit: Found another error; Delicate Cardinal Ruby's are counted as yellow gems instead of red gems.

KraxisSingular · 10/07/08, 3:21 PM

Originally Posted by Mathorli

I think the point, is that the spell your casting is Bestial Wrath, which only effects the pet. Its a different talent that sends us into the rage too. But all in all, it is most likely to keep our BM dps in balance.

This has been argued in many other places. Readiness affects Kill Command and Master's Call which can hardly be called different from Bestial Wrath or Intimidation. The semantics are useless as this is most likely an intended exeption from the rule of Hunter abilities. All of the above are after all Hunter spells that affect the pet, not pet spells, hence Bestial Wrath and Intimidation should be affected. You can see this in the wording of Longevity, Bestial Wrath, Intimidation and pet specials. That sets the pet abilities apart from the two Hunter abilities. And the fact that Longevity doesn't affect Kill Command or Master's Call.

Obviously the need to balance something required the difference. You can then argue if it is fair or not, but that is an entirely different issue.