Kathucka

Because we won't, always.

First of all, if you're way over the hit cap, with no hit enchants or gems left to swap out, nothing you do will help, short of swapping in different pieces of gear.

Second of all, the enchants are not all created equal. For instance, on boots, you can get +12Crit/+12Hit, +16AGI, or +32AP. The first one gives you 24 item points, but only 12 of them are for hit. The second two give you 16 item points, each in a single stat.

There's a similar situation for weapons, where you have a choice between +25Hit/+25Crit or 110 AP. Then, consider that you can dual-wield. Even messier.

It might be useful to ignore the hit cap as an option when you're considering swapping a lot of gear around, but having the option to consider it is important.

 

• VRoscioli

I agree that there are situations where you truly could have nothing to do with extra hit. But I do feel like these situations are likely rare, and think that we should at least have the option, as you said, to ignore the hit cap. I agree that maybe it should not be a default behavior, as it does produce consequences, like requiring the user to understand that he'll need to be able to do something with the extra hit. But I think the option should be there for the users that do understand the ramifications of this.

 

• VRoscioli

This would have some very interesting consequences, most notably causing the last couple of points of hit rating to not be worth as much as they are now.

 

TrevvyTrev

I'm not sure it's that rare. If you have hit rating that comes in sizeable chunks, then this situation will occur. For example, I'm hit capped without using any talents, gems or enchants. I have a huge chunk of hit (+83) coming from the trinket slot. I also have 40 here, 39 there, etc. As a result I have 10 slots with no hit on them. Neck, shoulders, back, Main hand, Ranged, one trinket, both rings, legs and gloves.

Upgrading any of these slots with hit results in wasted hit, with nothing to do about it except change out entire slots, which goes beyond the spreadsheet's prediction capabilities. It wouldn't make any sense for the spreadsheet to assume I could do something with the extra hit.

 

Zeuxis

Rivkah: good to hear. Did you notice if heroic presence is translating as pet expertise? If it's not, Alliance hunters might see a return to the bad old days of trying to calculate the value of hit beyond our personal cap- something we'd certainly rely on the sheet to help us with.

 

Rivkah

Ran a longer test and my results were .8% miss (and .3% dodge) on about 3400 attacks with 7.93% hit, so I guess that was a false alarm, looks like the hit is still getting rounded down.

I don't have a draenei handy for the heroic presence testing unfortunately.

 

• VRoscioli

I agree that this is the case in situations you've mentioned. However, I don't see this happening except at high gear levels. At lower gear levels, many hunters find themselves gemming, enchanting, or talenting to get +hit. As such, it seems reasonable to give at least an option that would allow them to more highly value extra +hit on gear.

 

Seoman

Can anyone think of a reason why my identical gear, spec rotation, etc. in v90 would take a 64 DPS hit from the last v89?

The Shot Rotation DPS of each shot is slightly different - most importantly, ES seems to be 95 DPS lower, Multi-Shot is 25 DPS lower, and Steady Shot is about 50 DPS higher. 50-(95+25) = -70. Other shots are up slightly, as is Pet DPS, yielding -64.

I don't see anything in the notes that would cause these changes off the bat. I'm SV, with no ArP trinket. I see that crit from Skinning and AP from the LW Bracer lining are up slightly. These are the only changes to the Gear tab, and they should yield a slight increase in DPS.

All talents, glyphs, rotation order, etc. etc. are the same.

 

Shandara

The only thing I can think of is the Replenishment change increasing Viper uptime.

WotLK Hunter DPS Spreadsheet

 

Seoman

Ok - but I have Viper to OOM set to "Always On" - meaning that replenishment shouldn't play a role, right?

 

Shandara

Indeed. I'll have to dig a bit further then.

EDIT: The viper penalties are applied after the frequencies are calculated (either through normal calculations or the rotation test), so it can't be that.

WotLK Hunter DPS Spreadsheet

 

Seoman

Is it possible that the Shot Rotation is taking the viper penalty even if Always On is selected?

 

Midnight

Just another minor item change for the next version:
- Nitro Boosts: Passive bonus is now 24 critical strike rating.
(Source)

FaceShooter - a hunter shot recommendation AddOn
The optimism of action is better than the pessimism of thought.
- Greenpeace UK

 

Seoman

In looking into this more, I see that the Calculations tab has all my shots (except SrS, due to the additive/multiplicative change) with higher damage, due to the uptick in AP from the LW Bracer lining and the Skinning +crit change, but that the source of the DPS nerf I observed above is actually due to the ratio/frequency of shots in the rotation.

V90 seems to give me 2.5% more Steadys, while taking away 1.5% fewer Explosives and 1% fewer Multis.

It also appears that, on the Rotation Test tab, Steady Shots are taking exactly 0.2 more time in v90 than they did in v89g. I guess that is pushing a percentage of the other shots out of the rotation?

But why the extra 0.2 sec? And if it is latency (which I thought was already implemented in v89g) why only Steady Shot?

 

Rivkah

Perhaps there's new code in there for LnL cooldown which would reduce explosives and steady would logically fill that gap? Doesn't make sense why it would reduce multi tho.

 

R00k!3

Hey,

I have a big problem in figuring out why my pet does not nearly as much damage as calculated by the spreadsheet.
My hunter also does not reach the calculated ammount of damage, but I guess this is based on ping and my
antiquated PC which delivers about 8FPS in raid situations.

Anyhow, spreadsheet says that my Wolf should do about 1017dps (No Faerie Fire/Mangle/Leader of the Pack and no Rampage, because we have no feral and our fury is not attendant that often).
In reality it is between 600 and 800 dps in the most cases. I have turned of any nondamage abillities and therefore I have no idea where the problem is.

I am not sure if it is a problem of the spreadsheet or if it is my fault, however this is our log of today. Perhaps you can help in figuring out where the problem is.

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

ps: I hope I did not do too much mistakes, my english is not that good.

 

aadic

Just Downloaded the newest sheet and "Fur Lining - Attack Power" (+114)is not recognized.

 

Rezdan

Shandara has modified most Profession enchants to match the values in 3.2. The current (3.1) values won't be recognized when loading from armory.

 

Hititicus

I also had this error

 

sisonpyhod

to Shandara

Thanks for your DPS Sheet!

I am playing in Kokr Server.

Can you include Armory in Kokr server?

The World of Warcraft Armory

 

alienangel

I know base stats have been mentioned and fixed recently, but I'm still getting some strange inconsistencies with them in the latest live version of the sheet (revision g).

As a level 80 night elf, with maxed mining and engineering, completely naked, I show the following stats:

Character Sheet Values
Survival with 5/5 Lightning Reflexes, 5/5 Survivalist, 2/3 Hunting Party 3/3 Careful Aim, Trueshot off, Hawk on:

Agility 218 (213 + 5)
Stamina 194
Int 90
RAP 816

MM with 2/2 Combat Experience 3/3 Careful Aim Trueshot Off, Hawk On:
Agility 193
Stamina 177
Int 93
RAP 736

Spreadsheet Values when Survival
The racial line at the top of the gear planner reads 213 agi - this appears be my base modified by 15% from Lightning reflexes, which should be 213.9
The Multiplicative Talents line at the bottom says 16.15% - the formula looks correct (multiplying LR, CE and HP together) but 1.15 x 1.02 should be 17.3%
The In-game Character Tab (without procs) line at the bottom (wearing no gear) says 215 (213 + 2).

So on my charactersheet I have 3 extra agi somehow - I would guess that if my base is 186, it's doing 186 x 1.15 x 1.02 = 218.178. This would match the spreadsheet if it were calculating my multiplicative talents as 17.3% instead of 16.15% (however looking at the MM results below, I'm not convinced this % is being directly used in the calculations at all).

The sheet also does some strange things on the calculations tab, claiming Aspect of the hawk is -298 RAP, but in the end it comes up with a reasonable tooltip of 813 RAP (3 RAP short).

Spreadsheet Values when MM
The racial line at the top of the gear planner reads 186 agi - this appears be just my base, since for whatever reasons this line includes lightning reflexes, but not Combat Experience or Hunting Party
The Multiplicative Talents line at the bottom says 4% - this appears to be correct
The In-game Character Tab (without procs) line at the bottom (wearing no gear) says 186 + 0. This is incorrect, since the 4% from Combat Experience hasn't been included yet - it should read 193 like my character sheet does.

The calculations tab claims I should have 726 tooltip RAP, which is 10 rap short


Now, scaling up to wearing full gear (but still no buffs):
As MM I have 1252 agi in game, but 1246 agi according to the character sheet (I took off greatness to avoid the averaging of its proc)

As SV I have 1412 agi in game, but 1440 agi according the spreadsheet (again, took off greatness)

In all the above cases I also set Pet type to none to avoid call of the wild affecting the rap values and removed the point in TSA.

So looking at the deltas above, I think for MM it's just missing ~6 agi from not applying talents to base racial agi. However for Survival it's apparently screwing up the stacking of LR and HP somehow and going from being short 3 agi naked to being short 28 agi geared (and likely a lot more buffed and with greatness on) - can anyone else confirm a hefty difference between predicted and actual unbuffed agi values?

 

• VRoscioli

"Active Time: 80.4%"

Your pet was only attacking for 80% of the time. Whether this is from not having your pet attack or do to having it avoid aoe damage or just from switching targets, this is why your pet's DPS is about 80% of what it should be. The spreadsheet represents DPS in a stand-up-and-tank-and-spank fight, where your pet's DPS uptime should be (nearly) 100%. Since this is not achievable on most fights, we should not expect the DPS from the spreadsheet on most fights.

As an example, though, if you look at your XT-002 kill, your pet has much higher attack uptime and shows 1002 DPS.

 

R00k!3

Ok,

this seems to be an explanation for the overall statistics. So let's look at the fight against Ignis where the active dps-time is at about 96% and dps is at 812 dps.
Does this encounter have any special armor values?

edit: Ah I think I figured the problem out. I didn't take the Dodges/Glances... in to account.

Thank you.

 

• VRoscioli

The spreadsheet should take things like dodges/glances into account. My guess would be that flame jets are the culprit on this fight. They interrupt DPS but your pet would still be considered "active" while running back after jets.

 

Rivkah

My web based adaptation of Shandara's spreadsheet is now in public beta for anyone who'd like to try it out (should be especially useful to those without Excel).

It's at Zeherah's Hunter DPS Analyzer