WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 121

prime311 · 07/08/09, 1:01 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

The Crit on the Envoy and the hit on the MPE (which you may or may not be able to use) make the difference.

Also, the Gear Planner doesn't regem for hit/agility for ranged weapons so for most setups where you'd use the Envoy you'd waste all the hit.

With my current stats Envoy would put me below hit cap. The difference between the 2 items. The main problem I noticed though is I can switch a couple gems around to be at hit cap with Envoy but it still has me at a lower DPS. Switching to Envoy and gems to hit cap i lose 8 Agi+ 8 AP(socket bonus) not counting the difference in item stats. I just can't see how the SS could rank Envoy lower then MPE unless none of the hit is being used(and in my case it is). In fact if I setup the SS to be hit capped with envoy and put on MPE putting me more then 27 over hit cap I still get more DPS from MPE which leads me to conclude that in no circumstance will Envoy ever offer more DPS then MPE.

Shandara · 07/08/09, 1:15 PM

Maybe I should've phrased that differently.

The Gear Planner's "Ranged Weapons" button just tries all the weapons in your ranged slot one by one. It doesn't actually put in gems at the moment properly yet so the MPE's socket is unused at the moment.

If I put in the MPE manually into my setup (I use the Envoy) I lose 2 dps.. then the sheet notices the empty socket, puts in a +16 agi and I gain 34 dps.

This is something I've been meaning to fix (if you meant this behaviour).

Small update in the meantime:

- Spider's Bite now only works for Ferocity pets.
- Orc base hp now 7324.
- Wild Hunt now increases AP scaling by 15% and Stamina scaling by 20%
- Animal Handler now increases pet AP by 5/10%
- Default Gem dps values used by the Gear Planner will now include values for ArP, Haste and Mp5
- Socket bonuses that have ArP, Haste or Mp5 will now be counted on the gear planner if the default gem for that socket color matches.

Haldhur · 07/08/09, 3:07 PM

Test rotation seems not to work.

• VRoscioli · 07/08/09, 6:42 PM

Originally Posted by Haldhur

Test rotation seems not to work.

Can you be more specific? What isn't working?

Originally Posted by Dch48

BM talent Animal Handler is being changed to grant +5/10% attack power instead of the expertise boost.

This is included in the latest spreadsheet update.

Neruse · 07/08/09, 6:51 PM

I notice that if I hit/go over the hit cap with a devilsaur, the pet's dps actually drops. Doesn't happen with a wolf, raptor, ravager, spirit beast, etc.

This is hit from gear. If I go over 100% with FA, it doesn't drop the devilsaur's dps.

Shandara · 07/08/09, 7:05 PM

Originally Posted by Neruse

I notice that if I hit/go over the hit cap with a devilsaur, the pet's dps actually drops. Doesn't happen with a wolf, raptor, ravager, spirit beast, etc.

This is hit from gear. If I go over 100% with FA, it doesn't drop the devilsaur's dps.

An unrelated fix broke something with Monstrous Bite. I have uploaded a quick fix for this, redownload.

EDIT:
Since Blizzard has updated the EU Armory to show pet talents as well a quick re-upload to fix that.

Coexist · 07/09/09, 1:21 AM

Hi, when I import my gear from the armory, I click on Shoulders and it shows this:

Surely, T7 shoulders can't be better then T8.5 shoulders. Am I doing something wrong?

Rezdan · 07/09/09, 1:29 AM

Your screenshot shows that T7.5 > T8.5 > T8 and this is something that is true quite often due to the Tier Set Bonuses being taken into account. Another possibility is that you're not making full use of the stats (usually hit rating) on the lower ranked items. Finally, double check that you've gone to Overview and hit Calculate Attributes as well as going to the Gear Planner and hitting Sort after any changes.

KraxisSingular · 07/09/09, 10:59 AM

Noticed a surprising result.

I have generally 135 or less latency, so I have set it to 135. But when I set it up for the new PTR spreadsheet I noticed a drop in DPS from 150 to 135, which is rather odd to me. So I felt my way back and forth and found a 'sharp' drop in DPS from 139 latency to 138. Looking at the rotationtest it looked the same.

I'm wondering if something might be off, or that the 0.01 latency causes the very last shot to not get fired in the test? The difference isn't terribly big, we are talking 10ish DPS.

jmichaelp · 07/09/09, 12:20 PM

The latest version, 89g, isn't working for me when I change talents & I have no idea why. Previous versions worked just fine.

When I make changes, the DPS inc/dec by 100-200 or so as it seems it should. If I subsequently run the rotation test, DPS drops by 1,000. If I then go back & change the talents then run the rotation test, I get different DPS results (perhaps off by 100) from what I had on a previous test of those talents.

Right now, I just don't trust any of the numbers I'm getting

I took a break from raiding before 3.1 & want to start again, but I need info so I know how to spec.

Anyone have suggestions? Thanks.

Iru · 07/09/09, 12:41 PM

When you change talents are you changing specs or just moving points around in a tree? Newer versions of the spreadsheet default to rotation tests rather than distribution frequencies so changing specs means you MUST change the shot rotation to see true DPS, the spreadsheet will no longer guess for you.

Also, you don't have 'Randomise Procs on Rotation Test' set to yes by accident do you? While the rotation test approach is generally considered more accurate, the random procs method will result in different DPS numbers each time you run the test, even if you haven't changed anything.

• Tsook · 07/09/09, 1:49 PM

In 90a, Glyph of Serpent sting is 0 DPS for a Marksmanship build. It appears that the Chimera-Serpent calculation is re-calculating Serpent Sting damage from scratch (H148) and failing to take the glyph into account.

Shandara · 07/09/09, 3:16 PM

Originally Posted by Tsook

In 90a, Glyph of Serpent sting is 0 DPS for a Marksmanship build. It appears that the Chimera-Serpent calculation is re-calculating Serpent Sting damage from scratch (H148) and failing to take the glyph into account.

Made a small fix for this and re-uploaded v90b.

Salaam · 07/09/09, 6:54 PM

I'm seeing a discrepancy between how much Gear Planner says I should see my dps change versus what actually happens if I change my gear.

I'm currently using Mirror of Truth as one of my trinkets. Gear Planner says that if I replace the MoT with Darkmoon Card: Death, I should see an increase of around 13 dps. However, if I actually switch the MoT for the DC: Death in my Gear, all else unchanged, I'm actually seeing a loss of around 9 dps.

I've tested this with both the pre-PTR v89g and with last night's v90b, and I'm seeing the same behavior in both versions - a net decrease in dps when the Gear Planner indicates that I should see a net increase. (And I do hit the CalcAttributes and RangedWeapon buttons after I make the switch.)

Any idea why this happens?

• VRoscioli · 07/09/09, 9:29 PM

Originally Posted by Salaam

I'm seeing a discrepancy between how much Gear Planner says I should see my dps change versus what actually happens if I change my gear.

I'm currently using Mirror of Truth as one of my trinkets. Gear Planner says that if I replace the MoT with Darkmoon Card: Death, I should see an increase of around 13 dps. However, if I actually switch the MoT for the DC: Death in my Gear, all else unchanged, I'm actually seeing a loss of around 9 dps.

I've tested this with both the pre-PTR v89g and with last night's v90b, and I'm seeing the same behavior in both versions - a net decrease in dps when the Gear Planner indicates that I should see a net increase. (And I do hit the CalcAttributes and RangedWeapon buttons after I make the switch.)

Any idea why this happens?

This is because of the way the spreadsheet calculates DPS deltas. It calculates how much change say one Crit rating will change your DPS in your current gear. These values are all based on what you are wearing now, and swapping out gear (especially in this case) changes what each point is worth.

• VRoscioli · 07/09/09, 9:39 PM

Not that it should matter, since there isn't much use for Elixir of Demonslaying, but there is an error in the formula in Buffs!J113

Shandara · 07/10/09, 5:13 AM

Just as a heads up, I've decided to rework the gear planner to work like the Ranged weapons button for each slot (i.e. it actually tries the item). Trying to work the excel formulas to give accurate results with +hit and +haste in particular is giving me a headache really. Excel's formula based language isn't really suited to building in a lot of exceptions and nested IF statements.

The Gear Planner is really an optimization problem, which is far easier to do in scripts.

To make it better than the current "Ranged Weapons" button, it will try to do the following:
a) Re-gem +hit if you end up below the hit-cap
b) Re-gem for agility/AP/Crit (your choice on Settings tab) if you end up above.

For both cases it will try both 'pure' gems (i.e. +16 hit or +16 agility) and mixed gems (i.e. +8 agility/+8 hit gem).

The benefit is more accuracy, the downside is obviously that it means a big hit in performance. I will include options to calculate only for certain slots which are selectable. And it will only calculate for item locations actually selected.

Cranch · 07/10/09, 5:41 AM

I'd like to be able to do (a) and (b) above but without having to run at the speed of the Ranged weapons button. In other words, the current gear planner modified to do (a) and (b). I presume that'd run a lot faster. Hopefully that will be an option.

Shandara · 07/10/09, 8:12 AM

Originally Posted by Cranch

I'd like to be able to do (a) and (b) above but without having to run at the speed of the Ranged weapons button. In other words, the current gear planner modified to do (a) and (b). I presume that'd run a lot faster. Hopefully that will be an option.

I'm adding a button on the Gear tab to do exactly that. It doesn't have to recalculate the whole sheet while re-gemming so it's pretty fast.

When comparing items, after each item is equipped it does have to recalculate the dps, which is where the performance hit comes from.

• VRoscioli · 07/10/09, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Shandara

Just as a heads up, I've decided to rework the gear planner to work like the Ranged weapons button for each slot (i.e. it actually tries the item). Trying to work the excel formulas to give accurate results with +hit and +haste in particular is giving me a headache really. Excel's formula based language isn't really suited to building in a lot of exceptions and nested IF statements.

The Gear Planner is really an optimization problem, which is far easier to do in scripts.

To make it better than the current "Ranged Weapons" button, it will try to do the following:
a) Re-gem +hit if you end up below the hit-cap
b) Re-gem for agility/AP/Crit (your choice on Settings tab) if you end up above.

For both cases it will try both 'pure' gems (i.e. +16 hit or +16 agility) and mixed gems (i.e. +8 agility/+8 hit gem).

The benefit is more accuracy, the downside is obviously that it means a big hit in performance. I will include options to calculate only for certain slots which are selectable. And it will only calculate for item locations actually selected.

Will this be re-running the rotation test for each and every piece of gear now (assuming that option is turned on)? If so, won't this take roughly forever? Perhaps there should be a cutoff as to what gear it tries. (For example, the Ranged Weapon button appears to try *every* ranged weapon in the spreadsheet, including ones that don't even have a chance of being anywhere near what is currently equipped.) Maybe it could not even bother trying anything that is currently a 10% or more DPS loss or something.

Shandara · 07/10/09, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by VRoscioli

Will this be re-running the rotation test for each and every piece of gear now (assuming that option is turned on)? If so, won't this take roughly forever? Perhaps there should be a cutoff as to what gear it tries. (For example, the Ranged Weapon button appears to try *every* ranged weapon in the spreadsheet, including ones that don't even have a chance of being anywhere near what is currently equipped.) Maybe it could not even bother trying anything that is currently a 10% or more DPS loss or something.

No, it doesn't run the test for each piece of item anymore, since the effect of a single piece of gear on the rotation is small (apart from haste affecting Steady Shot, no other stat does).

I'm taking this opportunity to try and profile the code a bit and see where it can be optimised.

As a comparison, on my computer (E8500 dual-core with 4gb RAM) the current 'Calculate Attributes' button takes roughly 30 seconds to compute stat values. After that the Gear Planner is pretty much instant, naturally.

The new code that tries an item and see the DPS effects takes about 500 ms per item to compute the DPS increase. The biggest part of this time, 360-370ms, is spent re-calculating the entire sheet (to get the DPS figure of the new item).

The more I can optimise that part spent calculation all the sheet, the faster it will be to compute an item's DPS value.

EDIT:
I've made some improvements to the speed that will be very noticeable. I hope to get the whole system done today and a test-version out for people to try.

• Tsook · 07/10/09, 12:55 PM

One thing that could potentially speed up the optimizer part is if it only ran using items it knows you have (or have easy access to). Now that Rawr has finally mostly caught up to the features the Hunter spreadsheet has had for ages, one of the things it does better than the sheet is allow you to mark items that you have and then optimize the best way to use all of them together. Of course, that would require an entire new UI or unhiding the gear sheets to do the marking, so if you can get it fast enough it's probably better just to run on all items.

Maybe an ilevel/quality filter? I'm pretty damn sure no blue or anything with an ilevel of <=200 is going to be an upgrade for me (trinkets aside), so no reason for the sheet to check those.

Shandara · 07/10/09, 1:25 PM

Originally Posted by Tsook

One thing that could potentially speed up the optimizer part is if it only ran using items it knows you have (or have easy access to). Now that Rawr has finally mostly caught up to the features the Hunter spreadsheet has had for ages, one of the things it does better than the sheet is allow you to mark items that you have and then optimize the best way to use all of them together. Of course, that would require an entire new UI or unhiding the gear sheets to do the marking, so if you can get it fast enough it's probably better just to run on all items.

Maybe an ilevel/quality filter? I'm pretty damn sure no blue or anything with an ilevel of <=200 is going to be an upgrade for me (trinkets aside), so no reason for the sheet to check those.

You can deselect all items that you don't want by removing their drop locations.

Deselecting the following:
* Non-raid Gear
* Pre-WotLK

Should get rid of all the blues and Heroic Dungeon drops.

Bikiniwax · 07/10/09, 1:26 PM

Using version 90b of spreadsheet, a 7/57/5 build with 3/3 Imp. Hunter's Mark.

When I remove points from Imp. Hunter's Mark and recalculate the shot rotation and overall spreadsheet, I expect DPS to go down however it is not changing at all. Is this a bug or am I missing something here?

Shandara · 07/10/09, 1:45 PM

Originally Posted by Bikiniwax

Using version 90b of spreadsheet, a 7/57/5 build with 3/3 Imp. Hunter's Mark.

When I remove points from Imp. Hunter's Mark and recalculate the shot rotation and overall spreadsheet, I expect DPS to go down however it is not changing at all. Is this a bug or am I missing something here?

Do you have buffs enabled that give IHM Mark?