WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 139

Shandara · 08/28/09, 3:14 PM

Originally Posted by Thorinson

When loading gear from the armory [Steel Bladebreaker] gives an error.

Thanks. It has the wrong itemID (the one for the horde version) in the sheet.

baklava · 08/29/09, 5:45 PM

Bug: Glyph of Aimed Shot somehow drops the dps.
Bug: Glyph of Chimera Shot drops the dps.

akbinhil · 08/29/09, 6:43 PM

Originally Posted by baklava

Bug: Glyph of Aimed Shot somehow drops the dps.
Bug: Glyph of Chimera Shot drops the dps.

Both of these can be caused by the fact that your IMP Steady Shot will proc on something other than Chimera, leading to lower overall dps, despite the fact that they can be shot more often. Check your rotation test to see if it is causing issues due to that.

ExEvolution · 08/29/09, 9:45 PM

I've been looking through a lot of these threads but I'm getting conflicting information.

Whats the best Survival Hunter shot priority in 3.2?

I've seen some people suggest this: KS > BA > SerpS > ES > AS > StS
And then I've seen people say this: KS > ES > BA > AS> SerpS > StS

Which one brings more dps? They both sound good, since BA and SerpS increase damage you deal by 9% to that target it would seem those should be up first, but then theres just the fact that ES does a lot of raw damage and its best to keep it on cooldown. So, which brings more dps?

baklava · 08/30/09, 7:12 AM

Originally Posted by akbinhil

Both of these can be caused by the fact that your IMP Steady Shot will proc on something other than Chimera, leading to lower overall dps, despite the fact that they can be shot more often. Check your rotation test to see if it is causing issues due to that.

What do u mean by that? What is the relation between Improved Steady Shot and Chimera + Aimed Shot Glyphs? I will be glad if u give an example how decreasing CD of Chimera + Aimed Shot Glyphs effects the dps in other way cuz of Improved Steady Shot?

Alduin · 08/30/09, 8:56 AM

Originally Posted by baklava

What do u mean by that? What is the relation between Improved Steady Shot and Chimera + Aimed Shot Glyphs? I will be glad if u give an example how decreasing CD of Chimera + Aimed Shot Glyphs effects the dps in other way cuz of Improved Steady Shot?

1) already mentioned: Imp.Steady proccs used for Aimed instead of Chim. (your rotation changes form chim-aimed-4steady and so on to something like chim-ai-3SS-chim-ss-aim-2ss-chim-2ss-aim-ss-chim-3ss-ai .{[chimera moves up 1 position pro rotation])
2) higher viper uptime cause of the higher manacosts (I checked it for the standard fight length, with Chim.Shot glyph you will come out at around 7% viper uptime).
3) you have to give up either serpent glyph (no way), hawk (which is buffing itself by ~10% extra uptime) or steady glyph. and if you want to switch you still have the kill shot glyph.
4) at a 6min fight (360sec) you will increase your chim shot rate just from 36 to 40 (if you have a 9sec rotation) or 45 shots (using chim shot whenever ready) but losing 1steady per rotation, leading to a lower impSS uptime and lower dmg.

Bluesfear · 08/30/09, 10:40 AM

Is the increased LnL procs reflected from the spreadsheet? It says 6.5% from the settings and when I attempt to change it, it results in a drop in dps.

Azaurosa · 08/30/09, 12:57 PM

OK so I am having an interesting issue going on with the gear planner tab. It happens with several pieces of gear, but I'll use the neck as an example.

I am currently wearing the Broach of the Wailing Light. It says that Favor of the Dragon Queen is 12.68 Delta (dps) higher. If in the Gear tab I switch to the Favor of the Dragon Queen, and hit Recalculate DPS on the Gear Planner tab, it says now that the Broach of the Wailing Light is 17.68 Delta. Is this a bug or what? It does the same thing with belts, gloves, and backs. Changing one piece of gear will sometimes change what's better in 3 other pieces of gear. I want to optimize what's best for me, but the numbers keep changing.

Any help would be great.

Argg0 · 08/30/09, 1:17 PM

Originally Posted by Azaurosa

OK so I am having an interesting issue going on with the gear planner tab. It happens with several pieces of gear, but I'll use the neck as an example.

I am currently wearing the Broach of the Wailing Light. It says that Favor of the Dragon Queen is 12.68 Delta (dps) higher. If in the Gear tab I switch to the Favor of the Dragon Queen, and hit Recalculate DPS on the Gear Planner tab, it says now that the Broach of the Wailing Light is 17.68 Delta. Is this a bug or what? It does the same thing with belts, gloves, and backs. Changing one piece of gear will sometimes change what's better in 3 other pieces of gear. I want to optimize what's best for me, but the numbers keep changing.

Any help would be great.

Gear Planner results are what you'd get after regemming.

Azaurosa · 08/30/09, 1:27 PM

Originally Posted by Argg0

Gear Planner results are what you'd get after regemming.

I'm sorry. but that doesn't help.. The green "regemming" bar is the same for all of the pieces of gear. I'm talking about the individual item values.

DreamScaper · 08/30/09, 5:30 PM

Would it be easy to include custom gear when exporting/importing or is that too much information? I use 2 t5 for different sets and constantly have to re-input it. No biggie, takes 2 minutes, but I'm wondering if this was ever a consideration.

Also would bringing over the hand adjusted values also be hard? That obviously takes alot less time but there are just some items in the spreadsheet that have wrong values. Titan-forged bracers has 42 haste instead of 42 resil. I don't think there are sta trinkets either in the spreadsheet because raiding hunters and pvp hunters just wouldn't use that gear.

If this involves any work then no problem. As I said it is very simple to just do within 5 minutes of a new spreadsheet.

Esoth · 08/30/09, 5:36 PM

A nice feature would be to have a section in the settings (or somewhere) to simulate specific boss mechanics - Hodir's storm cloud or Vezax's magic buff for instance. The latter of those examples you can already do but although storm cloud should just be a crit bonus change, there is no easy way to do this with a locked spreadsheet. Ulduar is almost a thing of the past already but I don't think it's out of the question to assume we will get more unique boss mechanics that we will want to simulate.

alienangel · 08/30/09, 5:59 PM

Originally Posted by Esoth

A nice feature would be to have a section in the settings (or somewhere) to simulate specific boss mechanics - Hodir's storm cloud or Vezax's magic buff for instance. The latter of those examples you can already do but although storm cloud should just be a crit bonus change, there is no easy way to do this with a locked spreadsheet. Ulduar is almost a thing of the past already but I don't think it's out of the question to assume we will get more unique boss mechanics that we will want to simulate.

% haste effects (not haste rating based ones) that apply to both you and your pet would nice to be able to analyze too - as far as I know there's no way to specify a % haste on your pet without unlocking the sheet.

Zeuxis · 08/31/09, 12:20 PM

Yet another IAH question.

I've found that in my BM spec (6 minute fight, bloodlust = yes, 5/5 Serp Swiftness, 5/5 IAotH, no Glyph of Hawk), that moving from 142 haste rating to 143 haste rating is worth 36 autoshot dps. At that haste point, IAotH uptime moves from 33.3 percent to 46.6 percent. It's driving me absolutely nuts, since as I equip t9, I'm losing haste and gaining other offensive stats. Incuring a 36 dps penalty for moving across this "haste boundary" is really clobbering my evaluation of gear upgrades.

After going over the rotation test, I can see that this haste boundary changes my IAotH procs from 11 to 14 in the 6 minute run, which explains the difference... but for the life of me, I cannot understand how a single point of haste is giving me *three* more/fewer procs. It's doesn't seem to be a "whole shot" question, since the delta in uptime run length and shots per uptime are both fractional, and the difference betweent the fractions is minute. I'm quite confused at this apparent "haste break point". Can anyone reproduce/explain this?

Edit: this is in sheet version 91f. If trying to reproduce this error, make sure you run the rotation test on both sides of the break point, as just switching gear/changing haste values in the gear tab will not cause IAoTH to re-calc, even with rotation test set to "yes."

Drako · 08/31/09, 1:30 PM

Could it be, that the talent "Combat Expertise" doesn't have any effect on the base stats?
My In-game character tab says: "183+1510" agi and "88+427" int
The Sheet says: "176+1510" agi and "85+427" int

176 * 1.04 = 183.04
85 * 1.04 = 88.4

So the difference is exactly 4%.

nedm · 08/31/09, 5:35 PM

For those interested, here's a complete explaination of Armor Penetration courtesy of Ghostcrawler.

Originally Posted by Ghostcrawler

Okay, here is a fairly technical explanation we put together for how armor pen works.

We didn’t want Armor Penetration Rating to be too powerful against low armor targets, like it had been in BC. We also didn’t want Armor Penetration Rating to be too powerful against high armor targets.

So, we decided on a system where there is a cap on how much armor the Armor Penetration Rating can be applied to. So, the first X armor on the target is reduced by the percentage listed in the Armor Penetration Rating tooltip, and all armor past that X is unaffected. Another way of understanding that is we multiply the percentage in the tooltip times the minimum of the two values: the cap, and the amount of armor on the target after all other modifiers.

Computing the cap is a little tricky unless you are already familiar with how World of Warcraft armor works. There is an armor constant we’ll call C. C is derived as follows (in some pseudocode):

If (level<60)
C=400+85*targetlevel
Else
C=400+85*targetlevel+4.5*85*(targetlevel-59);

For a level 80 target, C=15232.5. For a level 83, C=16635.

The cap for Armor Penetration then is: (armor + C)/3.

A level 80 warrior creature has 9729 armor. C=15232.5. So, the cap is (9729+15232.5)/3=8320.5. Let’s say a player has 30% armor penetration from armor penetration rating and no other modifiers that complicate the calculation (talents, Battle Stance, Sunder Armor, etc.). The game chooses the minimum of 8320.5 and 9729, so 8320.5. That is multiplied by 30% = 2496.15, and so that much armor is ignored. The effective armor on the target is 7232.85 (9729-2496.15). From a player point of view, the armor penetration rating didn’t ignore the full 30%, but instead ignored 25.66%. (85.5% as effective as expected).

These equations should help you be able to test and verify that Armor Penetration Rating is working correctly and as we designed. The tooltip is not actually inaccurate, as it states: “Enemy armor reduced by up to 30.00%.” That "up to" is key.

Please be sure to test without any other effects which modify the armor calculation (Battle Stance, Sunder Armor, Mace Specialization, etc.) as they may involve other systems that add additional complexity to the calculation.

Mustacheride · 09/01/09, 1:42 AM

Originally Posted by nedm

For those interested, here's a complete explaination of Armor Penetration courtesy of Ghostcrawler.

That explanation of ArP was pretty poor. The TC community had a lot of issues with it when he said it. At the time he was actually proven wrong on his math.

Neruse · 09/01/09, 2:21 AM

ArP has been slightly nerfed on the PTR; data in this link:

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t29453-c...1/#post1371053

Edit: There's been no blue confirmation either way, so it's "wait-and-see" for now.

valiloramov · 09/01/09, 6:32 AM

Originally Posted by Neruse

ArP has been slightly nerfed on the PTR; data in this link:

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t29453-c...1/#post1371053

I believe they've corrected the tool tip, that's all. Previously it displayed the figures relative to the maximum target armour (ignoring the cap) but now it's based on the cap. The mechanics haven't changed, just the way the information is displayed has been - it is now more accurate.

valiloramov · 09/01/09, 3:58 PM

2 Quick questions:

1) Has the S/Sheet been updated to reflect the increased proc's we are seeing in Lock and Load?
2) Does that femaledwarf site match the spreadsheet?

p.s.

Good luck updating it for Cataclysm! My thoughts are with you...

Argg0 · 09/01/09, 5:20 PM

I was taking a look at the heroic 25 ranged weapon drops and I just can't understand, I trust it, but I can't understand.

Fezzik's Autocannon vs Death's Head Crossbow (H)

ArP is valued at 1.519 and Crit at 1.237 for me. Fezzik has 8 more agi than DHC, while DHC has 8 more haste. Sure, 8 Agi > 8 Haste, but 32 ArP >> 32 Crit.

So, is Weapon speed that important? 40 DPS worth difference?

mugon86 · 09/01/09, 5:51 PM

Since the gun is slower the spread on each shot is of course higher, which was the main difference between the projectile repeater and giant's bane. The larger base hits on shots that calculate based on avg weapon damage would then be higher with the gun vs DHC.

Drakbak · 09/01/09, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by mugon86

Since the gun is slower the spread on each shot is of course higher, which was the main difference between the projectile repeater and giant's bane. The larger base hits on shots that calculate based on avg weapon damage would then be higher with the gun vs DHC.

Except all special shots that utilize weapon damage are based on a normalized speed of 2.80s. Hell, even steady shot is normalized.

Edit: As a poster notes below me, it appears as if I am mistaken in this regard.

Tsook · 09/01/09, 11:04 PM

Normalized only refers to the AP contribution. Average weapon damage still affects the damage most special shots do, meaning that between two weapons of equal DPS, the slower one will do (somewhat) more damage with multi/aimed/chimera/kill. Slower weapons do maintain a lower uptime on Quick Shots, though, and other fixed proc percentage things like Master Tactician (and to a lesser extent, Thrill of the Hunt and Expose Weakness).

Most shots' damage calculations look more or less like this:
Weapon Damage + [ammo DPS * 2.8] + [AP/14 * 2.8] + [static amount]

Notably, Explosive Shot doesn't have any weapon damage contribution, it's entirely based on your AP. Because so much of survival's damage comes from ES, it's somewhat less affected by weapon dps and sees only a very minor effect from average weapon damage increases.

I would guess the reason Argg0 is seeing 40 DPS difference is that he's Marksmanship and the combination of a few DPS gain from higher average weapon damage and a few DPS gain from the agi and crit is enough to get there. Or else he's not recalculating correctly on the gear planner.

Kharthus · 09/02/09, 3:45 AM

Minor regemmer issue:

Running regemmer results in 5dps less than the gems I currently have. Couldn't find the post where you walked thru the logic it uses so I'm not sure if this is something that is easy to fix or even worth fixing.