WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 14

Devastor · 10/14/08, 1:46 PM

No doubt this will break stuff (although I didn't get many errors myself and I fixed those), so let me know.

i'm confused again, using 74b.

Longevity:

1/3: Me +1DPS | Pet +15dps
2/3: Me +4DPS | Pet -13DPS !!!
3/3: Me +2DPS | Pet +50DPS

this seems strange to me.
I understand, that with different CDs, Buffs "collide" in a better/worse way (Like +AP trinket and BW/TBW...)
But the "jumps" are really strange.

From 1/3 to 2/3 points actually decreases Pet-DPS by 13DPS, or in other words: 2/3 is +2 Pet-dps vs 0/3
And then the abnormal jump from 2/3 to 3/3...

Shandara · 10/14/08, 1:52 PM

Originally Posted by Devastor

i'm confused again, using 74b.

Longevity:

1/3: Me +1DPS | Pet +15dps
2/3: Me +4DPS | Pet -13DPS !!!
3/3: Me +2DPS | Pet +50DPS

this seems strange to me.
I understand, that with different CDs, Buffs "collide" in a better/worse way (Like +AP trinket and BW/TBW...)
But the "jumps" are really strange.

From 1/3 to 2/3 points actually decreases Pet-DPS by 13DPS, or in other words: 2/3 is +2 Pet-dps vs 0/3
And then the abnormal jump from 2/3 to 3/3...

It has to do with Rake. With Longevity at 2/3 or 3/3 you miss the last tick because it's refreshed before it ticks for the 3rd time.

I could offer a big explanation, but after looking at the code it's not quite what I want it do. I'll re-do it for the next release.

Devastor · 10/14/08, 2:09 PM

Thanks a lot

Shandara · 10/14/08, 2:47 PM

Originally Posted by Devastor

Thanks a lot

The calculation in the sheet as it is now is correct, it's just a bit kludgy. The results won't change.

It comes from the fact that Rake ticks 3 times. Every 3 seconds for 9 seconds. Now if you have 2/3 or 3/3 Longevity (i.e. 8 or 7 sec cooldown) you'll cut off the last part of the Rake DoT.

In case of the 2/3 and coupled with pet GCD you waste nearly a whole tick (at a 1.25 sec pet GCD Rake will fire in ideal situations every 8.75 seconds). You'd have gotten the 3rd tick at 9 seconds so you waste 2.75 seconds of time. This is what leads to the dps LOSS.

In case of 3/3 Longevity it's the same, but with a 7 sec cooldown you waste less time. But, at the same time you get an added benefit from the reduced CD on Bestial Wrath/Rapid Fire, because of how the cooldowns line up. This leads to the substantial DPS boost.

This is all in theory and in the sheet of course. Testing will have to determine whether or not it's close enough to the truth.

Littlehelper · 10/14/08, 4:24 PM

I was looking through some of the Formula, because Hit did increase my dps as Surv despite being above the hitcap.

So I found some questionable calculations.. the Explosion Shot's average dmg is decreased as if it would have a 17% extra Misschance.(Calculations.K103) Does ES really have a 17% base-miss-chance?
Also there is a 5,14% reduction due to partial resists and I always assumed partials resist only happen due to magic resistance, which should be decreased by curse of elements. So shouldn't that be 0%?

And I found similiar weird behavior in the pet calculations.C69, where the partial resist is decreased by Animal Handler and Pet/Hunter Hitrating.

And as long as I am not misinterunderstanding shouldn't Wolverine Bite's Total Damage(Pet Calculations.C140) be C132*C138*(1-C139)?

Shandara · 10/14/08, 4:39 PM

Originally Posted by Littlehelper

I was looking through some of the Formula, because Hit did increase my dps as Surv despite being above the hitcap.

So I found some questionable calculations.. the Explosion Shot's average dmg is decreased as if it would have a 17% extra Misschance.(Calculations.K103) Does ES really have a 17% base-miss-chance?
Also there is a 5,14% reduction due to partial resists and I always assumed partials resist only happen due to magic resistance, which should be decreased by curse of elements. So shouldn't that be 0%?

And I found similiar weird behavior in the pet calculations.C69, where the partial resist is decreased by Animal Handler and Pet/Hunter Hitrating.

And as long as I am not misinterunderstanding shouldn't Wolverine Bite's Total Damage(Pet Calculations.C140) be C132*C138*(1-C139)?

Thanks, the Wolverine Bite is a typo indeed!

As for the magical spells/abilities. This is a relic of the old sheet. I haven't really done any testing whether Animal Handle/Pet Hit still affect it's resist chance on magical attacks (but I assume so since all hitratings have been merged).

As for Explosive Shot, I saw partial/full resists against training dummies (which I assume do not have artifically high magic resistances). This is an area where I have not done any exhaustive testing.

Chul · 10/14/08, 8:24 PM

One minor thing that annoys me is that even if you sort items alphabetically via the Gear Planner tab, the weapons selection list in the Gear tab is still in random order. It works for all the other item selection lists, just not for weapons.

KraxisSingular · 10/14/08, 9:42 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

The calculation in the sheet as it is now is correct, it's just a bit kludgy. The results won't change.

It comes from the fact that Rake ticks 3 times. Every 3 seconds for 9 seconds. Now if you have 2/3 or 3/3 Longevity (i.e. 8 or 7 sec cooldown) you'll cut off the last part of the Rake DoT.

In case of the 2/3 and coupled with pet GCD you waste nearly a whole tick (at a 1.25 sec pet GCD Rake will fire in ideal situations every 8.75 seconds). You'd have gotten the 3rd tick at 9 seconds so you waste 2.75 seconds of time. This is what leads to the dps LOSS.

In case of 3/3 Longevity it's the same, but with a 7 sec cooldown you waste less time. But, at the same time you get an added benefit from the reduced CD on Bestial Wrath/Rapid Fire, because of how the cooldowns line up. This leads to the substantial DPS boost.

This is all in theory and in the sheet of course. Testing will have to determine whether or not it's close enough to the truth.

Are we certain that pets have a 1.25 GCD, and that is intended. I remember the talks that mentined specials going off at such a speed or similar. But I have yet to see any backup claims that it is certainly like that and that it is supposed to be so.
Not that I midn it, it will only require a little restructuring.

Btw, quite crappy that Cats scale so horribly with Longevity. Spirit Beasts scale well because their attack stacks?

Shandara · 10/15/08, 3:45 AM

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

Are we certain that pets have a 1.25 GCD, and that is intended. I remember the talks that mentined specials going off at such a speed or similar. But I have yet to see any backup claims that it is certainly like that and that it is supposed to be so.
Not that I midn it, it will only require a little restructuring.

Btw, quite crappy that Cats scale so horribly with Longevity. Spirit Beasts scale well because their attack stacks?

A little earlier in this thread me and Chul did separate tests on the matter. If we can believe the combat log than on _average_ specials happen every 1,25s.

Miya Mirage · 10/15/08, 5:36 AM

Edit: I see what you did there, found the customs column on the settings tab.

A bug I found though:

When turning on True Shot Aura for the Hunter and Pet Buffs on the Hunter Tab it bugs out all calculations for the AP Modifier Column. I think its referencing wrong.

Also the cell for the Fight Length sub 20% only accepts integers, at least one decimal would be good I think since its a bit more exact then.

Edit2: I meant the Buff Tab for the TSA Bug

Shandara · 10/15/08, 7:15 AM

Originally Posted by Miya Mirage

Edit: I see what you did there, found the customs column on the settings tab.

A bug I found though:

When turning on True Shot Aura for the Hunter and Pet Buffs on the Hunter Tab it bugs out all calculations for the AP Modifier Column. I think its referencing wrong.

Also the cell for the Fight Length sub 20% only accepts integers, at least one decimal would be good I think since its a bit more exact then.

Thanks, the sub-20% boss hp feature doesn't work at the moment since I'll be re-doing the Kill Shot calculations to see if I can do it without VBscript.

ElginRoko · 10/15/08, 9:35 AM

Originally Posted by Littlehelper

So I found some questionable calculations.. the Explosion Shot's average dmg is decreased as if it would have a 17% extra Misschance.(Calculations.K103) Does ES really have a 17% base-miss-chance?
Also there is a 5,14% reduction due to partial resists and I always assumed partials resist only happen due to magic resistance, which should be decreased by curse of elements. So shouldn't that be 0%?

From Formulas:Magical resistance - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft :

Note: Level-based resistance (not to be confused with level-based miss) can play a factor in total resists. For every level that a mob has over the player, there is 8 resist (believed; the exact number may be higher) added. For boss fights, this means there is 15-24 resistance added. This extra resistance means there will be partial resists on non-binary spells from the added resistance. However, this resistance has been shown to not apply to binary spells at all.
This level based resistance cannot be reduced by any means, not even Spell Penetration.

Which is where the 5.14% comes from, that's why you see partial resists on arcane and explosive.

From what I've seen though, magic damage ranged shots only roll for ranged hits, I haven't seen anything to support an additional spell hit roll, though I haven't done rigorous testing. Shouldn't be too hard to test by spamming arcane against a +3 levels target with 9% hit though.

Shandara · 10/15/08, 9:39 AM

Originally Posted by ElginRoko

From what I've seen though, magic damage ranged shots only roll for ranged hits, I haven't seen anything to support an additional spell hit roll, though I haven't done rigorous testing. Shouldn't be too hard to test by spamming arcane against a +3 levels target with 9% hit though.

I tried to test it last night, but full resists show up as misses currently and recount isn't tracking partial resists properly (yet) so I couldn't get anything accurate.

Celfydd · 10/15/08, 12:13 PM

Is there any plan to publish an OpenOffice-compatible version of the WotLK spreadsheet, for those that don't have Windows?

I have Excel on my Mac but it doesn't handle any of the macros correctly - OpenOffice works the same on Windows and Mac.

Kamaa · 10/15/08, 7:41 PM

Originally Posted by Celfydd

Is there any plan to publish an OpenOffice-compatible version of the WotLK spreadsheet, for those that don't have Windows?

I have Excel on my Mac but it doesn't handle any of the macros correctly - OpenOffice works the same on Windows and Mac.

Open Office can't really handle the spreadsheet. It's been done by people other than the authors in the past, but rarely to any amount of acceptable utility. Basically, Excel > Open Office. The general response to this question is, feel free to volunteer if you want to do it, but don't hold your breath waiting for somebody else to do it.

On a side note. [Quick Lionseye] is missing from the gem list. Also, is there a toggle somewhere that I am missing to quickly adjust all of the settings for level 70? If not, would this be a feasible option?

Nandei · 10/16/08, 6:50 AM

There are some protected fields in the spreadsheet, which I think would be better left unprotected.

In the settings:

-Gem options, can't set your own preferred default gems at the moment.
-Boss fight, I don't know if this has to be 15 mins for some calculations to work, if not, would be nice to have it be changeable.
-Target options, its not possible to set your own custom target at the moment.

If I am just failing at something with Excel again, ignore this, if not would be nice to get these unprotected in the next version.

Vegelus · 10/16/08, 6:59 AM

Originally Posted by Nandei

There are some protected fields in the spreadsheet, which I think would be better left unprotected.

In the settings:

-Gem options, can't set your own preferred default gems at the moment.
-Boss fight, I don't know if this has to be 15 mins for some calculations to work, if not, would be nice to have it be changeable.
-Target options, its not possible to set your own custom target at the moment.

If I am just failing at something with Excel again, ignore this, if not would be nice to get these unprotected in the next version.

Those are editable. Use fields right to the ones you tried to use.

Nandei · 10/16/08, 7:04 AM

Originally Posted by Vegelus

Those are editable. Use fields right to the ones you tried to use.

Thanks! Didn't even cross my mind you could do it that way x(

Feel really stupid now, should read all the things in there. Obviosly "Custom Value" is the one I should change, not the default one.

Shandara · 10/16/08, 7:55 AM

Originally Posted by Chul

One minor thing that annoys me is that even if you sort items alphabetically via the Gear Planner tab, the weapons selection list in the Gear tab is still in random order. It works for all the other item selection lists, just not for weapons.

This is a legacy of the old sheet, I've been meaning to do something about it, but the problem is that it merges 2 lists (one for 1-handed weapons and one for 2-handed weapons), which makes sorting on the fly impossible. They are both pregenerated.

I could merge them both and sort them alphabetically, if you think that's better. But you'd have a very long list to search through. I could also try to sort both lists alphabetically before merging them and add some sort of divider halfway between 1-handers and 2-handers.

Ravenfire · 10/16/08, 2:52 PM

One bug, and a request for the community to look into some buffs/debuffs that might affect pet spells

Bug: the Draenei Racial +1% to hit is not being applied to pet's Spell hit chance (works for melee hit chance).

Missing/request for data: The +spell hit debuffs (Imp. FF from Moonkins and Misery from Shadow Priests) are not currently in the sheet and would add an additional 3% to hit for pet spells (if they work on pet spells). Similarly, while moonkin aura grants the same 5% crit as LotP and are as such a wipe for the current version of the sheet, the spell crit debuff is signficantly larger then the physical crit debuff (10% spell crit vs. 3% physical crit) but is not an option in the buff/debuff list. Finally, does anyone know if any of the +spell damage buffs (Imp Spirit, Flametongue Totem, Totem of Wrath, or Demonic Pact) affect pets?

P.S. Any chance you could do a rudimentary calculation on Thunderstomp (gorilla)? I believe that it is currently getting full spell damage (no deduction for being insta cast). As a BM (with all the % multipliers), and selfbuffed with roughly 2750 RAP, i was seeing Thunderstomp hit for 590-680 non crits.

samfisher · 10/16/08, 9:52 PM

I found that when you put TSA up in the buff section, everything goes #NA# and some other symbols until I turn it off. Just to let you know =)

alienangel · 10/17/08, 2:52 AM

Originally Posted by Shandara

This is a legacy of the old sheet, I've been meaning to do something about it, but the problem is that it merges 2 lists (one for 1-handed weapons and one for 2-handed weapons), which makes sorting on the fly impossible. They are both pregenerated.

I could merge them both and sort them alphabetically, if you think that's better. But you'd have a very long list to search through. I could also try to sort both lists alphabetically before merging them and add some sort of divider halfway between 1-handers and 2-handers.

Have one gear slot for "2 Handler", and two for "1 Hander", feed the two types different dropdowns, and when one type is set, blank out the other?

Also, since we're asking for stuff, filtering out all the random gems we don't care about, or sorting gems like other gear in the dropdowns would be great

Khallas · 10/17/08, 6:38 AM

Originally Posted by Kamaa

On a side note. [Quick Lionseye] is missing from the gem list.

Just to reiterate, [Quick Lionseye] & [Forceful Seaspray Emerald] are not able to be selected in the gem list.

Shandara · 10/17/08, 8:12 AM

Update:

- Added a setting to use 1 mana potion during the fight
- Wolverine Bite now is properly mitigated by armor
- Time sub-20% on the setting stab can now have decimals
- TSA buff on hunter/pet works again
- Implemented Upcoming AotV change
- Added Kill Shot low HP calculations. Kill Shot will replace only Steady Shots at the moment
- added Quick Lionseye/Forceful Seaspray Emerald
- Orc Blood Fury racial now has to be put in the shot rotation to have effect
- Sorted weapons list alphabetically
- Draenei Racial and Animal Handler also affect pet spellhit now
- Scrolls don't stack anymore.

Thelegend · 10/17/08, 9:01 AM

Heya Shandara

Not entirely sure what has happened, but I ported the old versions stats into the new version and my DPS appears to have gone up by roughly 155,000. After my initial moment of pleasure at what could be my new DPS figures, I realised that there may in fact be a problem.

I havn't been able to fix it via settings as of yet, however, there does appear to be a problem with the pre-loading of buff profiles (Warp Burger gets thrown into the 2nd weapon buff spot for example). Did you add additional hidden lines in there somewhere?

Either way - great work on the spreadsheet, I'm very happy to see it working so well.

Side note: Have you considered getting together with the RAWR guys to add all of this invaluable information to their files for accuracy? The modelling and what not within RAWR doesn't quite compare to that of the spreadsheet, however, for a general gear upgrade tool it is really quite something, which may benefit greatly from your input.

EDIT: Seem to be having a problem getting Serpent Sting working in the rotation tests too.

EDIT 2: Helm DPS contribution seems to be far higher than expected.