WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 150

Meltorvyen · 11/01/09, 2:42 PM

Sorry I didn't mean to sound ungrateful for all your work. I am using the spreadsheet on all of its default settings except for the odd test I've done trying to tweak things, which I've described above. (Ofc I don't except it to be able to coupe with my messing around with the code. I was just telling you what I'd tried). As I understand hit, you need 8% +hit in order not to miss against a lvl 83 boss. I have over 8% and the spreadsheet seems to be telling me I need more. I was just wondering if there was a way to stop this, as a previous version had the option to disregard hit.

Shandara · 11/01/09, 3:54 PM

Sorry, I misread your post.

Do not mistake the numbers on the overview page. The +hit value doesn't cap out and go to 0. It's the average value +1 hit going from 0 hit to hit-capped. The gear planner doesn't use those values though since it actually tries out each item.

diadren · 11/03/09, 3:28 AM

Taking my current gear into account, the sheet tells me to optimize the gemming by dropping the nightmare tear into Twin's Pact (+4 agi) instead of the triumph legs (+6 agi).

Rethlon · 11/03/09, 5:28 AM

There seem to be some weird bug in excel.
Below is the Rotation test from one of my rotation tests.

Start 	Shot		Time U	Cast E	CD until	
0.00	Serpent Sting	1.65	1.65	21.15	
1.65	Chimera Shot	1.65	3.30	11.80	
3.30	Aimed Shot	1.65	4.95	13.45	
4.95	Steady Shot	1.79	6.74	6.60	
6.60	Steady Shot	1.79	8.39	8.25	
8.25	Steady Shot	1.79	10.04	9.90	
9.90	Steady Shot	1.79	11.69	11.55	
11.80	Chimera Shot	1.65	13.45	21.95	(Waited 0.25s) 
13.45	Aimed Shot	1.65	15.10	23.60	
15.10	Steady Shot	1.79	16.89	16.75	
16.75	Steady Shot	1.79	18.54	18.40	
18.40	Steady Shot	1.79	20.19	20.05	
20.05	Steady Shot	1.79	21.84	21.70	
21.95	Chimera Shot	1.65	23.60	32.10	(Waited 0.25s) 
23.60	Steady Shot	1.79	25.39	25.25	
25.25	Aimed Shot	1.65	26.90	35.40	
26.90	Steady Shot	1.79	28.69	28.55

The "CD until" for the Aimed Shot is listed as 23.60.

The code in VB that makes the control is

 If haveShot = 0 And ShotTable(i, 2) <= currentTime + And ShotTable(i, 1) <> "None" Then

Using "<=" it should pick the Aimed shot... but it does not.

Iamcal, that made the last major update to the Rawr wow simulator (major Update made in the v2.2.14 release), where he made the hunter module copy the spreadsheets calculations as close as possible (to the current v91e spreadsheet) noticed the same challenge while programming in C#.

He solved it by an "ugly" hack.

Snipet from Rawr code

// this is a horrible round hack, i know. the issue probably comes
// somewhere from a float->double cast.
// the issue is that we have currentTime at (e.g.) 65.35 and steady shot CD is at 65.3500000001
// so we skip forward by 0.1 seconds when we didn;t really need to.
if (!haveShot && s.time_until_off_cd <= currentTime+0.00001)
{

Adding the "+0.00001" to the spreadsheets code seem to solve the problem as well.

 If haveShot = 0 And ShotTable(i, 2) <= (currentTime + 0.00001) And ShotTable(i, 1) <> "None" Then

I have no idea what causes the problem. When debugging the VB code and adding watches... both variables shows 23.6.

I also tried to have the currenttime variable dim'ed as variant as well... but that did not help.

Rethlon · 11/03/09, 5:29 AM

Additional info my shot priority was

Serpent
Chimera
Aimed
Steady

Rethlon · 11/03/09, 6:03 AM

Apparently comparing doubles or floats for equality is difficult since the "=" tend to never be true if the values have been manipulated in a different way.

Link talking about the problem. Compare double in VBA precision problem - Stack Overflow

Better to compare if the difference is within a certain delta... i.e rely on < or > comparisons only ... and add a delta to the value being compared to.

Shandara · 11/03/09, 6:38 AM

Originally Posted by Rethlon

Apparently comparing doubles or floats for equality is difficult since the "=" tend to never be true if the values have been manipulated in a different way.

Link talking about the problem. Compare double in VBA precision problem - Stack Overflow

Better to compare if the difference is within a certain delta... i.e rely on < or > comparisons only ... and add a delta to the value being compared to.

Cheers for the heads up. This issue had reared its head in the past in another module as well (attribute calculations) but it had not been apparent to me in the rotation test.

Cranch · 11/03/09, 8:57 PM

No, the actual problem is due to the fact that 0.01 (and most of its multiples) have no exact representation in binary floating point (as does 0.1, etc.) So if one computation gets to 23.6 by adding some number of multiples of .01 and another computation gets to 23.6 by adding a different number of multiples of .01, the two results generally will not match.

The simplest way to fix the problem is just to multiply the times by 100 or 1000 (i.e. work in integral milliseconds.) Older spreadsheets used to support BCD numbers; I couldn't find any reference to that in the Excel documentation.

mistla · 11/04/09, 1:08 PM

I am looking at 92.b of the spreadsheet. One the Calculations worksheet in the Armor Penetration block. The calculation for the armor Constant looks correct when compared to wowwiki, but the Level_Selected parameter appears to be set to 80 when the boss level is set to 83. The result is a Constant of 15232.5 for a level 83 boss.

This quote is from wowwiki

For a level 80 target, C=15232.5. For a level 83, C=16635.

I am wondering if wowwiki has it wrong, I have my spreadsheet setup wrong, or there is a possible bug with the calculation. Can anyone else confirm or deny?

I searched the forums for armor + pen + constant before posting and only saw a quote of the wowwiki page I am referencing with no rebuttal of the information presented there. If this has been previously reported, I apologize.

baklava · 11/05/09, 8:41 AM

I'm having problem with Lock and Load ability at the moment.

If I don't use Lock and Load I get 11k+ dps, if I use 1/3, it decreases dps to 10k's.

 IF(AND(ExplosiveInRotation;LALExplosiveFrequency>0);VLOOKUP("Explosive Shot";ShotPriorityList;9;FALSE)-VLOOKUP("Explosive Shot";ShotPriorityList;17;FALSE);0)

I think this comes to true even LALExplosiveFrequence is 0 somehow.

there is high possibility that the problem is around here or problem with my excel, I couldnt be sure about it.

Could you check that you have the same problem, Shandara?

Balrouge · 11/05/09, 3:11 PM

Just wanted to post to vouch for the accuracy of the spreadsheet in its intended use, as I often times hear the statement, "The SS says I do X dps, but I'm only doing Y". After testing PTR patchwerk (Raid DPS Test), the following log was recorded:

World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

The spreadsheet accurately reported me at 10k. A couple things to note, Culling the Herd was implemented on the PTR, with an uptime at ~ 83%. Also, a couple of our dps were premades, or died to hatefuls (lol); considering both of those factors/variables, I'm thinking it's pretty much on point for the intended use.

Whitefyst · 11/05/09, 4:28 PM

Originally Posted by mistla

I am looking at 92.b of the spreadsheet. One the Calculations worksheet in the Armor Penetration block. The calculation for the armor Constant looks correct when compared to wowwiki, but the Level_Selected parameter appears to be set to 80 when the boss level is set to 83. The result is a Constant of 15232.5 for a level 83 boss.

I am wondering if wowwiki has it wrong, I have my spreadsheet setup wrong, or there is a possible bug with the calculation. Can anyone else confirm or deny?

My understanding, and how I believe the spreadsheet is coded, is the following:

The level armor constant of 16635 for level 83 targets effects how much armor they have. This is already factored into the target's armor amount. Different levels of targets and their armor constants factor into the armor amount for target's of various levels.

The reason that the level 80 armor constant of 15232.5 is used in the calculation of the ArP cap is because it is believed that the attacker's level affects the maximum amount of armor that can be penetrated. Hence, the armor constant for our level is used to determine the ArP cap.

Thus, both our level and the target's level factor into how much of the armor can be penetratable.

Here is another way to look at it. Say if there are two targets with the same amount of armor, but one is level 80 and one is level 83. One would think that we would be able to penetrate an equal or lesser amount of that armor on the level 83 target than the level 80 target since it should be harder to kill. If the armor constant for the target was used in the ArP calculation, then we would actually be able to ignore more of the armor on the 83 target than the 80 target as shown, making it easier to kill instead of harder.

If target's level was used in ArP cap calculation:
- Level 80 target with 10K armor results in 8411 ArP cap
- Level 83 target with 10K armor results in 8878 ArP cap

With using the attackers level to determine the armor cap, we ignore the same amount of armor on a level 80 and level 83 target with the same base armor; however, since level 83 targets will tend on average to have higher amounts of armor than level 80 targets due to the higher armor constant, more of the armor on average level 83 targets will be unpenetratable.

Shandara · 11/06/09, 2:24 PM

Update:

- Critical strike chance capped at 0% lower bound and 100% upper bound now
- Changed default custom boss armor value on settings page to 10643.
- Glyph of Steady shot now active if you have at least 1 talent point in Marked for Death, rather than >1
- Using a Dragon's Eye for the full-hit gem will now correctly limit use to 3 dragon's eyes total, rather than 4.
- Item stats/drop location corrections
- Shot rotation test rounding issue hacked
- When using frequency based rotations, having 0/3 Lock&Load will no longer lead to a massive dps increase.
- Rabid proc adjusted to 30% as per EJ testing, also only procs of melee attacks

Crydak · 11/06/09, 3:59 PM

Link shows still 92B as latest version (typo I guess)

wasnt · 11/09/09, 12:13 AM

I recently got Treads of Dismal Fortune (linked below). They are leather and have expertise on them. When I try to load from Armory I get a debug error (Invalid Procedure Call or Argument). I figure it's due to the expertise, not sure.

[Treads of Dismal Fortune]

Just wanted to let you know.

Whitefyst · 11/09/09, 12:44 PM

Please ignore. Sorry.

Shandara · 11/09/09, 2:03 PM

Just to stave off more PMs, my ISP is moving their servers and you won't be able to download the sheet until wednesday.

Bechamel · 11/10/09, 8:50 PM

I tried for two weeks, but I cant load the gear for a raid-hunter, only his talents: Takata / Kargath / EU / 80.

>> runtime error '91' "Objektvariable oder With-Blockvariable nicht festgelegt" <<

any ideas?

Whitefyst · 11/12/09, 5:05 PM

If you have the time and inclination, I would like to propose calculations in the spreadsheet for Volley damage. Like for our other standard shots, it would be nice to see the average non-crit and crit damage as well as the average damage per hit. Furthermore, it would be nice to have an option to select the number of targets in Volley and see how much DPS results (or maybe a table instead with 1-10, 15, 20 targets). This would be useful for making decisions for progression fights that require us to do a lot of AoE instead of single target attacks. Volley still would not need to be part of the shot rotation choices. This information would be separate from the shot priority information, although it could be displayed in the reference table.

alienangel · 11/12/09, 5:37 PM

Volley DPS values in the same spreadsheet are slightly misleading though, since a lot of the averaging of procs and talents we have in the sheet don't apply when we volley - trinkets other than greatness/death'sverdict don't proc while volleying, master tactician doesn't proc while volleying, replenishment (and I think thrill of the hunt too) don't proc while volleying. Gftt at least does proc though, so your pet's DPS isn't hurt.

Getting volley to show on the Calculations or shot rotation tab would be nice, but it would probably need to be based on not averaging AP/crit effects from most trinkets and procs (I've tried periodically interruping volleys when master tactician drops for instance and firing shots till MT procs again, it's unreliable enough to not be easily modelled in the sheet IMO). With that caveat though, a row showing your volley dps per target (DPS, not damage per tick, since haste affects volley dps without affecting tick value) or per N targets would be great for gearing decisions in situations you know you'll have to volley. I would go so far as to say the DPS number should be shown on the Gear tab itself, so you can easily see it change as you swap gear.

This brings up the issue though that I have no idea how exactly Volley damage and tick-interval is calculated. Has anyone worked out a formula for it?

Dellimore · 11/12/09, 7:28 PM

wondering, is it beneficial to stack 2 8.5 vs 4p t9, i didnt like the set bonus for T9 nearly as much as i like 2 piece t8

Argg0 · 11/13/09, 10:39 AM

About Volley, I think it's similar to other chanellings. At 0 haste, it would deal 1 hit / s (6s cast duration, 6 hits) and reduce the interval as haste increased. Like:

Tick interval: 1 / (1 + haste%)
So, at 20% passive haste it'd be 1 tick every 0.833s, with a total duration of 5s, which matches with me using Berserking.

Ah, and, sadly, Ranged Haste doesn't apparently affect Volley. At least Rapid Fire and IAotH proc doesn't, while berserking does.

Namarus · 11/13/09, 6:09 PM

Originally Posted by Argg0

The spreadsheet exists exactly to solve this kind of doubts... but, anyway, I'd say neither, go for better solo pieces.

About Volley... I think it's similar to other chanellings... At 0 haste, it would deal 1 hit / s (6s cast duration, 6 hits) and reduce the interval as haste increased. Like...

Tick interval: 1 / (1 + haste%)
So, at 20% passive haste it'd be 1 tick every 0.833s, with a total duration of 5s... which matches with me using Berserking.

Ah, and, sadly, Ranged Haste doesn't apparently affect Volley. At least Rapid Fire and IAotH proc doesn't, while berserking does.

Got a shaman to put down Wrath Of Air, and it lowered my volley channeling time. So Volley is affected by spell haste.

sefren · 11/13/09, 8:14 PM

The other day I decided to recheck my dps and fiddle around with the spreadsheet to see how certain talents would work for me. To my amazement it is now saying that dropping Arcane Shot from my rotation nets dps. The reason i say this is that I don't use an arp trinket, I don't gem arp and I have even specced into Arcane Shot. All this being said it still is telling me that Arcane Shot in the rotation is a dps loss. I looked over parses from some raid fights and its showing that Arcane hits for about 300-500 more on average than Steady Shot. Also the spec I'm checking out doesn't pick up IMP SS so I have no idea what is going on. Is there anything I'm overlooking or did Steady somehow miraculously beat out arcane shot at some gear level?

Cinderglow · 11/13/09, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by sefren

The other day I decided to recheck my dps and fiddle around with the spreadsheet to see how certain talents would work for me. To my amazement it is now saying that dropping Arcane Shot from my rotation nets dps. The reason i say this is that I don't use an arp trinket, I don't gem arp and I have even specced into Arcane Shot. All this being said it still is telling me that Arcane Shot in the rotation is a dps loss. I looked over parses from some raid fights and its showing that Arcane hits for about 300-500 more on average than Steady Shot. Also the spec I'm checking out doesn't pick up IMP SS so I have no idea what is going on. Is there anything I'm overlooking or did Steady somehow miraculously beat out arcane shot at some gear level?

It's the value the bleed that the steady shot yields if it crits, that makes it better than Arcane Shot.