WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 17

Miya Mirage · 10/23/08, 10:39 AM

Well, at least for scorpid, cat and raptor the real world results are pretty much right on target for me. With my MM Build it told me something around 690 for a cat pet and my cat came in around 685 for any bossfight where it could keep going from start to end. The scorpid was off about 25 dps (but the stack fell of twice - so that might account for the higher difference) and raptor was off 10 dps. So there might be something wasp-related going on.

grim4o4 · 10/23/08, 12:00 PM

Excuse my slight off-topicness, as it is something about the spreadsheet, but not a bug report.

What has everyone found to be the highest pure non-exotic dps pet? For awhile I know it was between scorpid and cat, raptor is in there somewhere, I just want to know where they all stand post nerfs. Thanks.

DrSuSE · 10/24/08, 9:33 AM

Glyph of Serpent Sting doesn't seem to increase the calculated DPS, but I believe it should.

Chimera-Serpent is 40% of your stings total cycle of damage (not based on how long you let it tick for) and the glyph adds an additional tick of damage (so the bonus will too). I've tested this to confirm that my Chimera-Serpent is indeed increased w/ this Glyph. Sorry if I missed this being reported already.

Thanks!!

ElginRoko · 10/24/08, 9:43 AM

Originally Posted by DrSuSE

Glyph of Serpent Sting doesn't seem to increase the calculated DPS, but I believe it should.

Chimera-Serpent is 40% of your stings total cycle of damage (not based on how long you let it tick for) and the glyph adds an additional tick of damage (so the bonus will too). I've tested this to confirm that my Chimera-Serpent is indeed increased w/ this Glyph. Sorry if I missed this being reported already.

Thanks!!

It is? last I heard it wasn't, and was therefore worthless for MM. It it's changed, I'm happy

Shandara · 10/24/08, 9:44 AM

Originally Posted by DrSuSE

Glyph of Serpent Sting doesn't seem to increase the calculated DPS, but I believe it should.

Chimera-Serpent is 40% of your stings total cycle of damage (not based on how long you let it tick for) and the glyph adds an additional tick of damage (so the bonus will too). I've tested this to confirm that my Chimera-Serpent is indeed increased w/ this Glyph. Sorry if I missed this being reported already.

Thanks!!

Well, Glyph of Serpent Sting just adds 1 more tick, so the damage per _second_ does not increase.

The Chimera Shot-Serpent must've been finally fixed then because previous tests said it didn't interact at all.

Noobiisa · 10/24/08, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Shandara

Well, Glyph of Serpent Sting just adds 1 more tick, so the damage per _second_ does not increase.

The Chimera Shot-Serpent must've been finally fixed then because previous tests said it didn't interact at all.

Yip it does increase Chimera shot's dmg now by 40% of 1 more SS tick.

Mandaboo · 10/24/08, 10:30 AM

I was trying to change the default gem choices on the settings page in the latest version and I am getting an error saying that the page is locked.

and as others have said, thanks for your work on this spreadsheet!

Shandara · 10/24/08, 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by Mandaboo

I was trying to change the default gem choices on the settings page in the latest version and I am getting an error saying that the page is locked.

and as others have said, thanks for your work on this spreadsheet!

Use the yellow 'custom value' fields next to them.

KraxisSingular · 10/24/08, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Noobiisa

Yip it does increase Chimera shot's dmg now by 40% of 1 more SS tick.

Well that's good news. No need to change that glyph going between the other specs and MM. Pretty happy now since I have it for my primary spec, but I'm in MM currently for some Volley awesomeness for MH. I'm sorry but I can't verify it though as the glyph is strangely rare on my server...

And as such getting it back would be a serious issue for me. Baffling really.

DrSuSE · 10/24/08, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

Well, Glyph of Serpent Sting just adds 1 more tick, so the damage per _second_ does not increase.

The Chimera Shot-Serpent must've been finally fixed then because previous tests said it didn't interact at all.

Right... I meant that the resulting DPS increase from Chimera-Serpent wasn't happening, not because of the extra tick itself.

But yeah... I'd not tested previously, just the test from today and Chimera-Serpent was definitely higher with the glyph.

Thanks.

Bikiniwax · 10/24/08, 3:40 PM

Shandara,

Can you confirm if I am doing this right?

For the MM shot rotation, I entered:

1. Serpent Sting
2. Chimera
3. Steady Shot

I then ran the Rotation Test but Chimera comes out as the first shot. It looks like this:

0.00	Chimera Shot	1.70	1.70	10.00
1.70	Steady Shot	1.94	3.64	3.44
3.64	Steady Shot	1.94	5.58	5.38
5.58	Steady Shot	1.94	7.52	7.32
7.52	Steady Shot	1.94	9.46	9.26
9.46	Steady Shot	1.94	11.40	11.20
11.40	Chimera Shot	1.70	13.10	21.40

I also see your comment on the Shot Rotation tab:

NOTE: Chimera Shot is just the shot		
The Serpent Sting Effect:		
830	1661

So, is the Serpent Sting already factored in but it just doesn't show up on the Rotation Test tab because it is a one-time shot that doesn't need to be refreshed?

Just making sure that I am using the spreadsheet correctly.

EDIT: Nevermind, I think I figured it out. If I remove Serpent Sting from Shot 1, the DPS all goes to hell and the damage listed for Serpent Sting on the Shot Rotation tab is not displayed.

Shandara · 10/24/08, 4:19 PM

You are correct, on the Shot Rotation Test tab it leaves out Serpent Sting (because it doesn't matter beyond the first application). The damage is still counted though, as you noticed.

Bikiniwax · 10/24/08, 4:24 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

You are correct, on the Shot Rotation Test tab it leaves out Serpent Sting (because it doesn't matter beyond the first application). The damage is still counted though, as you noticed.

Great thanks.

How do I add Readiness into a Shot Rotation? Was thinking Serpent Sting, Chimera, Steadies with a Readiness after the first Chimera.

Edit: Probably more like Rapid Fire, Serpent, 1st Chimera, Steady Shots, 2nd Chimera, Steady Shots, 3rd Chimera, Readiness, 4th Chimera, 2nd Rapid Fire, Steadies, repeat...

Readiness would be used right after the 3rd Chimera when Rapid Fire is on cooldown.

Shandara · 10/24/08, 4:29 PM

Originally Posted by Bikiniwax

Great thanks.

How do I add Readiness into a Shot Rotation? Was thinking Serpent Sting, Chimera, Steadies with a Readiness after the first Chimera.

Unfortunately, that's not possible with the sheet. It works with averages and you can not control when the Readiness is used.

The spreadsheet assumes you want to use it mostly for Rapid Fire so it tries to maximize the effect it has with Rapid Fire (and with The Beast Within if you are BM). This part of the sheet isn't quite as accurate as I'd want it to be, but it's almost impossible to model these things without actual simulation, so the effect of Readiness on shots and other abilities is not counted.

dssurge · 10/25/08, 12:37 AM

Scrolls are stacking with other buffs, they do not do so anymore. SoE totem and Horn of Winter over-ride scrolls.

edit: and Focus Magic (+3% crit) works on Hunters and stacks with other buffs.

Shandara · 10/25/08, 2:22 PM

Update:

- Fixed Greater Blessing of Might ranks
- Added Battle Shout as hunter buff
- Corrected Strength of Earth totem ranks
- Corrected Mana Spring totem ranks
- Fixed DST Gear Planner DPS estimate
- Glyph of Serpent Sting now affects Chimera-Shot Serpent
- Changes to Rotation Test, uses Readiness correctly now. Will wait with readiness if TBW/BW is close to getting off CD. Or Rapid Fire if it's close too
- Added Readiness as usable action in the rotation
- Scrolls no longer stack with other stat increasing buffs (SoE totem, Horn of Winter, PoFortitude, Gift of the Wild)
- Judgement of Wisdom restores 1% total mana instead of 2%
- WF totem/Improved Icy talons no longer provide ranged haste

I've updated (and unhidden) the rotation test tab. It should work according to the logic that was discussed regarding the usage of Readiness with Rapid Fire/TBW now. Also it should adjust the cast time for Steady Shot while Rapid Fire is active.

I've been using it mainly to gauge how accurate the predicted frequencies are for the shots and the abilities. But if it proves more accurate I might even use it instead of the priority queue. Since with enough haste even Steady Shot will still be at GCD usage I don't have to worry about procs that have haste (I can just average them to calculate auto shot DPS separately).

Also, I'm looking for feedback as to how accurate the sheet is in your eyes. Are portions way off? Do you think pet ability X or hunter ability Y isn't precise enough? I'm slowing updates down a bit since the Beta and PTR have calmed down as well and we'll soon enter the long stretch till level 80 in any case.

That will also be a good time to work on the UI, I'm not happy with a number of things but suggestions are always welcome.

I'll be collecting bug reports/suggestions on the first page, second post, so you can check that to see if anything has been reported and/or suggested already.

Devastor · 10/25/08, 2:42 PM

brobably a bug:
i am not able to select different Character-Presets from the Gear-Tab (nothing changes), confirmed on 2 different PCs.

just noticed this as i wanted to play around with Lvl80-Stuff and the Lvl80 Premade Preset

Oh, maybe i missed it, but did you already include the Pet-ability Dmg/Focus changes?

Shandara · 10/25/08, 2:45 PM

Originally Posted by Devastor

brobably a bug:
i am not able to select different Character-Presets from the Gear-Tab (nothing changes), confirmed on 2 different PCs.

just noticed this as i wanted to play around with Lvl80-Stuff and the Lvl80 Premade Preset

Oh, maybe i missed it, but did you already include the Pet-ability Dmg/Focus changes?

Are you pressing the "Load Profile" Button? Are macros enabled? Can you check if calculations are enabled (Tools->Options->Calculations)? Silly questions maybe, but it's working properly for me.

And yes, I did the changes to pet abilities and focus costs some time ago.

Devastor · 10/25/08, 2:58 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

Are you pressing the "Load Profile" Button? Are macros enabled? Can you check if calculations are enabled (Tools->Options->Calculations)? Silly questions maybe, but it's working properly for me.

And yes, I did the changes to pet abilities and focus costs some time ago.

i just slapped myself in the face - everything in the sheet is fine

i did indeed not see the load profile button - whenever i change a profile from dropdown, Excel lags a moment (aka working on something) - but then not changing something... thats why i thought it would be bugged

vith · 10/25/08, 4:45 PM

scrolls are still stacking with totems for pets on the buff page
CoR is now only -610 armor at 70, equal to FF
[The Gladiator's Resolution], [Battlemaster's Resolve], [Battlemaster's Aggression], and [Battlemaster's Celerity] are categorized as WoTLK in the Gear Planner
"Points left" on the pet page should only count the active tree

and a suggestion: change the hit% display on the Gear page to show values over 100.00% so it's easier to keep track when swapping gear around

also import from 75d->76 was generating an error, though 76->76 seems to be working. not sure if you're trying to support that between versions

Shandara · 10/25/08, 6:29 PM

Quick update:

- Curse of Reck is now correct ranks
- Pet scrolls don't stack with other stat buffs anymore
- %hit display on Overview/Gear tab now displays hit above 100%
- Pet talent counter now only counts the active pet tree

Guten · 10/25/08, 6:51 PM

Hi !

Im using gloves of awesome hit. Ie im using my gloves to get +35 hitraing so i can use other gloves when farming or killing trash´. But the spreadsheet dont find +15 hit on gloves enchant. How can i manually adjust it or are you planning to get that enchant added ?
Great work btw helps me alot.

Azurei · 10/25/08, 9:03 PM

Missing orange gem: [Glinting Flame Spessarite].
Missing red gem: [Delicate Blood Garnet]

Minor thing... Just noticed that the Armor Total on the Gears tab doesn't take into account the bonus from Agility. I doubt that value is used in any calcs... just something I noticed...

Thanks

Flouyd · 10/25/08, 10:12 PM

Hmmm, wasn't there some testing that showed Focused Aim to affact pet hit? (I did a quick google searach and came up with this http://elitistjerks.com/932841-post3944.html )

Is this still up to date? Because I cant find it in the sheet under the "Hit chance" column

vith · 10/26/08, 1:10 AM

I was surprised when I gained 1000 dps or so going from 76->76a by export/import/load profile, but apparently the buff settings get lost at some point through that because I ended up with level 80 buffs on a level 70 profile.

While I was trying to figure out what was going on I noticed the AP, hit, ArP and Haste manual adjustments don't work for pets on the buffs page.

Also, Focused Aim is still colored red as if it isn't implemented in the talent tree.

And a couple feature requests:

First, I think including mp5 in the list for CalcAttributes would be helpful now that you've got the model to support it.

Second, I've noticed with Viper to OOM mode, the value of Int can exceed the value of Agi if the fight length is longer than your Time-To-OOM. This gives significant value to the +Mana part of Int. For example:

50/11/0, 3/3 Careful Aim
15 minute fight, 2.4 minute Time-To-OOM,

Agility + 1	0.991
AP + 1	0.477
Int + 1	1.062

But if you have enough regen/mana to last you the entire fight duration, the dps increase gained from extending your mana pool or mana regen completely disappears, a lot like having more hit past the hit cap has no value.

Everything else the same, 2 minute fight

Agility + 1	1.035
AP + 1	0.495
Int + 1	0.539

So I think it might be useful to have some sort of indication about this on the Overview page.
Perhaps: Mana + 1 | 0.033 | 0.488 (per Int)