WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 179

Drakbak · 06/01/09, 4:34 PM

This is a fairly insignificant difference, but I've calculated Lvl 80 Troll base health to be 7324 rather than the 7410 used on the spreadsheet (currently using v89a, but didn't see any change notes regarding this on the latest versions). The difference amounts to about 86 hp.

I tested it on armory profiles of myself and two random 80 troll hunters from my server and it works out exactly in all three cases.

Kathucka · 06/01/09, 7:29 PM

Is it just me or is the gear planner...quirky? Does anyone have tips on how to use it better?

Some examples from v89a.

Wearing the [Heroes' Cryptstalker Tunic], it showed the [Tunic of Masked Suffering] as a 20 DPS upgrade. Playing with the spreadsheet, I swapped it in and re-gemmed to keep my hit capped. It turned into a 20 DPS downgrade. Huh? Note that I didn't lose the set bonus with this.

I had a similar issue swapping out the [Titanium Impact Band] for a [Sealing Ring of Grobbulus].

On the other hand, [Rifle of the Platinum Guard] shows as a downgrade when I have [Nerubian Conquerer] equipped, but an upgrade when I equip it and swap the hit rating for agility (and then the Conquerer shows as a downgrade).

These mainly seem to be a result of undervaluing hit rating on an item when I'm near the cap (which is going to turn into Agility when I re-gem). However, playing with the hit cap settings doesn't seem to help. Anyone have any hints on how to get better numbers out of this thing?

I feel bad that I've grabbed some drops that, after some analysis, turn out to be downgrades. I wanted to use the gear planner to allow me to only grab upgrades, but it's not really doing that job. My current thinking is to grab only big, obvious upgrades, and pass on all the minor ones, until I trust the gear planner.

Whitemane · 06/01/09, 8:35 PM

I played around with some talent specs, since I was thinking with the next patch we will get a fairly large discount on AiS and CS mana costs it might be possible to drop RK/RC and put the talents elsewhere. To try and get as accurate a read as possible, I used shot rotations instead of frequencies. What I noticed was that at almost each re-run of the rotation, the resulting DPS would be different. The difference was as high as 70 DPS. Very odd! Can anyone else replicate this?

Allara · 06/01/09, 9:00 PM

Originally Posted by Kathucka

Is it just me or is the gear planner...quirky? Does anyone have tips on how to use it better?

Some examples from v89a.

[some examples]

These mainly seem to be a result of undervaluing hit rating on an item when I'm near the cap (which is going to turn into Agility when I re-gem). However, playing with the hit cap settings doesn't seem to help. Anyone have any hints on how to get better numbers out of this thing?

I believe the behavior you're seeing essentially boils down to this: It's generally better if you can avoid gemming hit. Any gear choice that reduces your hit gems (with other things being mostly equal) will be an upgrade, but the spreadsheet may not see it that way until you actually do it. And vice versa. This has happened to me many times, and I've also grabbed gear that turned out to be downgrades (and felt bad later). It comes down to a certain amount of intuition. Hit rating is a tricky beast, and although the spreadsheet tries to do a great job with it, it can be very hard to come up with a one-size-fits-all methodology for dealing with it in a gear planner.

Some of the gear you've inadvertently taken may turn out to be useful in future outfits, so all may not be lost.

wurmfood · 06/01/09, 10:20 PM

You may also need to check to see what the assumed gems are in the settings tab. If you don't use the gems specified, then it may not be an upgrade. Also, if you switch out a piece of gear, say from one with gems to one without, the assumed gems of the old piece may now make it an upgrade for you.

Synergy · 06/02/09, 2:33 AM

Is there a reason putting/removing points from Improved Hunter's Mark doesn't change DPS?

Edit- It was already listed as a raid buff. I'm bad.

Rezdan · 06/02/09, 2:38 AM

It doesn't change DPS because you've set in the Buffs tab under "Hunter's Mark (not you)" in the Target debuffs that you're already benefitting from 3/3. To really test its effect on your personal dps, put those 3 talent points in (or leave them unused), and check your DPS while changing the value in the Buffs tab between None, Improved, Glyphed, and Both.

Midnight · 06/02/09, 2:39 AM

Originally Posted by Synergy

Is there a reason putting/removing points from Improved Hunter's Mark doesn't change DPS?

That´s propably because you enabled it in the buff tab already assuming there´s another hunter that brings IHM.

Shandara · 06/02/09, 3:00 AM

Originally Posted by Whitemane

I played around with some talent specs, since I was thinking with the next patch we will get a fairly large discount on AiS and CS mana costs it might be possible to drop RK/RC and put the talents elsewhere. To try and get as accurate a read as possible, I used shot rotations instead of frequencies. What I noticed was that at almost each re-run of the rotation, the resulting DPS would be different. The difference was as high as 70 DPS. Very odd! Can anyone else replicate this?

Increase the amount of shots. I see variances that big with low fight lengths. When it hits 20,000-40,000 seconds the variance is usuall within 5-10 dps.

Kharthus · 06/02/09, 3:15 AM

Shandara,

Can you put in an option (or combine it with the existing option) to use the average dps from the rotation test instead of just the last run?

Found a small bug too: Nymph Heart Charm is listed as having 42 Arp, but it should instead be 42 haste.

bronnum · 06/02/09, 4:09 AM

First things first - fantastic forum and fantastic spreadsheet!

I'm not sure if I have encountered an error or my own intuition is off: I'm a dor'f(!), prefer guns for the 1% crit based on race. When I use the spreadsheet with current gear (link to armory profile <-- that way :p ) it will show Siren's Cry > Giant's Bane, never really giving it much thoughts but it's kinda striking!

The stats per item budget shows me:
- ArP = 1.001
- Crit = 0.961

Comparing the two weapons stats shows the gun to:
Gain
- ArP = 21
- Haste = 5
- DPS = 0.1

Lose
- Crit = 25
- Stam = 3

From the stats per item budget I would imagine 21 ArP~=25 crit and the 0.1 DPS and 5 haste would make them very close indeed! Giving 1% crit from race I would say gun all the way and not bow.

Unless the spreadsheet takes sound (imo, bow-sound >> gun-sound) into account, I believe something is wrong in the calculations as the Gear Planner will show a DPS loss of 12.63. Hope some of you wise guys care to elaborate and point out what I'm missing

sihyunie · 06/02/09, 4:13 AM

Did you try actually equipping the gun? I'm pretty sure the gun is better than the bow for dwarfs.
I think the problem is probably from you not pressing calculate attribute or ranged weapon button.

bronnum · 06/02/09, 5:04 AM

Originally Posted by sihyunie

the problem is probably from you not pressing calculate attribute or ranged weapon button.

Ranged weapon button, confirmed

Didn't quite realize the effect from "sort" and "Ranged weapons" buttons worked differently.
Thank you for helping me out on this.

dssurge · 06/02/09, 5:58 AM

Hi, I have a concern with the calculation used to estimate the 4p bonus in regards to it's effective uptime. The spreadsheet credits the bonus with a roughly 18% uptime, which is a gross over-estimate.

I've had 4P for a while and across all WWS and WMO parses I can find, the effective uptime on the proc has been no higher than 10% across multiple weeks of raids, going as low as 4-6% regularly averaged out across multiple boss fights. In a strictly synthetic environment, the up time may be 18%, but it is no where near accurate due to deviating shot patterns, target switching, and other factors the spread sheet can't, and isn't expected to account for.

I would highly recommend lowering the effective AP gains on this 4P bonus by a sizable amount to better reflect the effectiveness of the 4P, for as it stands, you will get much better numbers from using 2P with 3 off-set items in a more real-world environment. I will gladly PM you a direct link to our WMO portal to verify the approximate uptime, but I assure you, it does not exceed 10%.

The sample size I am using to estimate this is at least 400 boss attempts. No trash.

Hirgux · 06/02/09, 8:15 AM

I tried a MM spec with silencing shot and also added silencing shot to my rotation - but even if it's on the first place, silencing shot will not be used. Bug?

Thanks