WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 188

Ingmar · 06/10/09, 4:47 AM

Well, not sure if this is the right place to discuss stat distribution on items here, but still:

Circlet of True Sight compared to Boundless Gaze (Boundless Gaze as base):
1056 Armor (-44)
+70 Agility (0)
+95 Stamina (-5)
+54 Intellect (-14)
Meta Socket, Blue Socket (+8 crit, -8 agi socketbonus)
Improves hit rating by 60 (-6)
Improves critical strike rating by 42 (-27)
Increases attack power by 156. (+44)

Now, considdering the equation part of Item level mechanics (Item Level Mechanics) you get a total of:
2/3 * 5 + 14 + (-8+8 = 0) + 6 + 27 - 44*1/2 = 50 1/3 - 22 = 28 1/3 more stat points for a 13 ilevel upgrade, which seems pretty decent. The fact that hunters would prefer another stat distribution is irrelevant to item level.

(edit: if compared to the 213 T7 helm, the circlet has: -14 + 16*2/3 + 7 (-8+8=0) + 7 + 5 + 22*1/2 = 26 2/3 stat points more, so the amount of stat points increased seems just fine for boundless gaze)

Krystalynn · 06/10/09, 8:23 AM

Love the sheet, I've spent almost as much time with it playing with numbers and arrangements as I have actually playing WoW.

Found one small issue, not exactly a bug but the overview tab lists "Damage Distrubiton" instead of Distribution.

Looking forward to trying to contribute something more useful at some point, hopefully

This sheet and this thread have both been exceptionally useful.

Shandara · 06/10/09, 8:50 AM

Originally Posted by KergeKacsa

I found an another bug.
If I turn off Hunter's mark (not mine) on the target's Debuff section, and I have 1 point in Imp. Hunters Mark, I have 7297dps.
If I turn on Hunter's mark (not mine, not talented, not glyphed) on the target's Debuff section, I got 7269dps, so I lost 30dps.
It seems the other hunter's unglyphed/untalented HM overwrites my talented HM.
I think this would be good if the greater HM would be in effect.

Edit: It would be great if we can choose not just Imp. HM and glyphed in other hunter's mark place, but IHM1, IHM2 too. (It would be really accurate.)

Not really a bug per se, but more a bit illogical in what it does. It basically assumes that if you check the buff for Hunter's Mark (other), that you don't cast it yourself.

I'll change it to use the better of the two instead.

RE: Armor Penetration procs and dps (in response to discussions in other threads as well).
Basically to properly value trinkets/abilities that have Armor Penetration as an effect you'd need to simulate each shot separately for them and see how much damage you gain. The sheet isn't really a full-blown simulation like that (although it does have some of it) and it would involve some radical changes to make it work.

Also it would make it nearly useless for the Gear Planner, since any simulation involves randomness which makes determining fixed stat values quite hard. Unless you'd have a great deal of iterations and eventually averaged out the values (like simulationcraft does).

Excel isn't really a suitable platform for that, because it's very SLOW.

Drakbak · 06/10/09, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Shandara

RE: Armor Penetration procs and dps (in response to discussions in other threads as well).
Basically to properly value trinkets/abilities that have Armor Penetration as an effect you'd need to simulate each shot separately for them and see how much damage you gain. The sheet isn't really a full-blown simulation like that (although it does have some of it) and it would involve some radical changes to make it work.

Also it would make it nearly useless for the Gear Planner, since any simulation involves randomness which makes determining fixed stat values quite hard. Unless you'd have a great deal of iterations and eventually averaged out the values (like simulationcraft does).

Excel isn't really a suitable platform for that, because it's very SLOW.

I knew the ArP proc would be messy to calc appropriately. People just need to keep that in mind when plugging stuff into the spreadsheet.

Beachwanderer · 06/10/09, 12:42 PM

@ Shandara
I'm noticing some anomalies playing with the MM Armor Pen list that was reported int he best dps thread. Some setups are wildly changing my Attribute DPS and Per Item Budget values from negative numbers to values over 6 when I hit the CalcAttributes button. Previously normal values were around 0 to 2ish. Was there some error in the way armor pen is being used?

Viola · 06/10/09, 1:17 PM

I am a bit confused. I am hit capped with a rating of 269. On the sheet it is telling me "Needed to cap hit" -39 "Pet" -32. Would it have anything to do with Heroic Pesence?

Shandara · 06/10/09, 2:02 PM

Originally Posted by Viola

I am a bit confused. I am hit capped with a rating of 269. On the sheet it is telling me "Needed to cap hit" -39 "Pet" -32. Would it have anything to do with Heroic Pesence?

Yes. It accounts for the 1% gained from the Draenei Aura.

Argg0 · 06/10/09, 2:24 PM

For the ArP trinkets...

Wouldn't something like this work?

Let's say the ArP trinket has 20% uptime. So...
Total DPS = DPS without proc * 0.8 + DPS with Proc * 0.2

It does get messy if there is more than one proc though...

Drakbak · 06/10/09, 3:05 PM

Originally Posted by Argg0

For the ArP trinkets...

Wouldn't something like this work?

Let's say the ArP trinket has 20% uptime. So...
Total DPS = DPS without proc * 0.8 + DPS with Proc * 0.2

It does get messy if there is more than one proc though...

That's pretty much a simpler explanation of what I proposed. The problem is that the way the spreadsheet is currently structured prevents this from happening. If i understand correctly, Total DPS is derived from each individual shot's contribution, which is calculated from the various stats. The above method would require the spreadsheet to maintain two calculations per shot in order do it correctly, which would be a lot of work to implement/debug. Like Shandara said, a proc like this is best suited for a full simulation, which this is not.

Kharthus · 06/11/09, 1:53 AM

Originally Posted by Whitemane

There's gotta be something wrong with this item. Comparing it to Circlet of True Sight, an item with almost identical stat distribution, makes it even more impossible to believe that this item is properly itemized.

Blizzard is aware of it:

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Something must be wrong here...

Beachwanderer · 06/11/09, 1:22 PM

Since we are on the topic of new loots,

http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...10_9901_12.jpg
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/..._10_9901_7.jpg

Are both on live and should be included in the next spreadsheet.

tobiah · 06/11/09, 1:30 PM

Some folks are working on a new Hunter module for the Rawr app.

According to this thread: Rawr - Discussions

I noticed some different things going on with how they were dealing with hit vs. higher level mobs.

I posted this on the Rawr forums:

Using Rawr build 34531, the hit percent displayed on the character stats page is 1% less than what Shandara's Excel based spreadsheet shows.

I noticed in the code for the Rawr modeule that a base 4% hit is removed based on attacking a level 83 NPC, however the excel based spreadsheet is only removing 3% for the Hit Adjustment.

It seems the hit adjustment in Rawr for attacking other higher level mobs is also slightly off. For example a level 82 mob in rawr shows a 1% miss penalty rather than the expected 2%, a level 81 mob shows 0.5% hit reduction rather than 1% and level 80 seems to be working with a 0% extra miss change.

I got this response to my post:

While working on the update we've found a couple of places where Shandara is wrong. Hit being one of them. Hit depression is not a flat % based on level but is actually based on the difference in the player's level and the target's level.

From what we can determine the hit cap is somewhere between 8% and 9% and is closer to 9%. By making our hit cap as 9% you can be 100% of never missing. At 8% misses are rare enough you may not see any for quite a while.

Cranch · 06/11/09, 2:02 PM

The Improved Steady Shot talent seems to be broken. Load the Sample MM Spec 7/57/7 and change the talent points to 1,2, or 3; there is no dps change.

*edit* it's working in 89a, by the way.

Argg0 · 06/11/09, 2:13 PM

Eh... unless by rare they mean quite a few months... they are wrong.

Drakbak · 06/11/09, 2:22 PM

Originally Posted by Argg0

Eh... unless by rare they mean quite a few months... they are wrong.

It needs to be rare enough that running through 4000 arrows per night and not seeing a miss is common occurence. In the event hunters were still capable of missing, I would think the effect it would have on DPS numbers would be highly insignificant.

But i just think he's plain wrong. Hit cap is 8%, and there's thousands of hunters who can provide proof of this.