WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 19

vith · 10/29/08, 11:17 PM

Hunter Battle Shout AP (J11) isn't included in the AP total (J35) on the Buffs page.

Also I've run into some strange glitches (76c on Excel 2007). I ran [CalcAttributes] but didn't notice the strange result it produced until later: Haste + 1 = 9.639, everything else normal (i.e. Agility + 1 = 1.016). But then I went to the GearPlanner and hit [Sort] and ended up with items having really out of whack values (from haste) but also they were out of order even by the DPS column's values. I clicked [Sort] a second time and they were then sorted "correctly" by the DPS column. When I ran [CalcAttributes] again without changing anything, the glitch did not repeat itself: Haste + 1 = 0.622. I saved a copy of the sheet, but only after hitting [Sort] the second time. If it's any use to you I'll upload it somewhere.

Shandara · 10/30/08, 4:05 AM

Originally Posted by Jack The Pumpkin King

I just installed the spreadsheet recently, and input all of my gear/spec. My Marksmanship spec was showing around 1516 DPS, with me contributing 1100 and my pet contributing 400 or so. After going the spec that I built on the spreadsheet, I went to a target dummy in Silvermoon to try it out, but found a large difference between the approximate DPS (according to the spreadsheet) and the DPS I was actually doing.

I'd like to know if anyone has any ideas as to why the spreadsheet may not be accurate for me. (No raid buffs are enabled on the spreadsheet or in-game). If anyone could toss around some ideas as to why i'm pulling 1000-1300 in-game, but the spreadsheet shows ~1500 DPS, I would very much appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

Is the Latency set to what you experience in game? Same for Boss armor/level?

Also, if you have a log or time to test it again, can you check whether the average damage for your shots match what the spreadsheet is predicting? And/or take a fixed damage weapon (Fine Light Crossbow for instance) and try it again?

Is your pet doing the right DPS? Is it running out of focus?

So far I've had 1 person claim the spreadsheet severely undervalued MM dps. Now we have an overestimation. If the sheet is at fault it's likely that one of the shots has changed between builds and is calculated differently from what we tested on beta a few builds ago.

For MM the most likely culprit is Chimera Shot.

@Vith:
I've had that bug as well a few times, it mostly seems to happen when I fiddle with the sheet while it's calculating (i.e. inadvertently click on a cell). Since it's a macro it is a simulation of keypresses/mouseclicks and some of the API actually selectes a cell to read/modify the contents so if I'd fiddle during the calculations it'd bug out.

Just recalculate.

If it's still messed up afterwards even with you doing nothing then we do have a bug.

Zeuxis · 10/30/08, 12:29 PM

Were all "buff" haste effects removed when WF totem was removed for hunters? When I enter in 103 percent for swift retribution, my dps and shot speeds don't change at all. On the calculations page, my "static haste" changes from 144 to 148, and 103 shows up as "buffs," but the bottom line shot speed result is exactly the same as without swift retribution.

Edit: Feedback. The most common differences I find between the sheet's output and my "real" dps are things the sheet cannot control: gcd loss, buff/debuff uptime, and movement. For me, the sheet invariably produces a result that is 5-10 percent higher than actual conditions, usually even accounting for heroism, but when I dig in to my WWS, I find various "uncontrollable" dps leaks. This was true for the original Cheeky's sheet as well. I always assume because the sheet works under ideal conditions, its output is going to be a bit higher than actual. Thus far under raid conditions this has proved to be the case.

The only item that has seemed significantly off has been pet modeling. I usually find that my pets do up to 1/3 less damage than predicted by the sheet. I also find that when I set "pet gcd" to "1.5," the results are much closer to actual, though whether that's an artificial adjustment or an accurate representation of reality, I do not know- I get significant "jitter" in my pet ability execution times, and haven't been able to prove/disprove the 1.25 gcd. As to pet skills, I've exclusively raided with a scorpid and cat to this point. Scorpid posion, while extremely powerful, falls off more often than the sheet predicts; I see you have modeled dodges, but what about outright resists and partial resists? WWS definitely shows poison is being partially resisted on a large number of ticks, and outright resists may be disrupting stack uptime. Rake also seems to have some trouble being kept up in "real" conditions due to claw spam locking it out, but I don't know of any way for the sheet to account for that.

All in all, though, this sheet has proved to be an outstanding tool for item, talent, and rotation descisionmaking, so long as you take into account the realities of a raiding environment. I very much appreciate your efforts- my guild's hunters have dominated our dps meters since 3.0, mostly due to being more prepared in terms of gear, specs, and rotations than other classes, and this project is largely to thank for that!

Jack The Pumpkin King · 10/30/08, 12:37 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

Is the Latency set to what you experience in game? Same for Boss armor/level?

Also, if you have a log or time to test it again, can you check whether the average damage for your shots match what the spreadsheet is predicting? And/or take a fixed damage weapon (Fine Light Crossbow for instance) and try it again?

Is your pet doing the right DPS? Is it running out of focus?

So far I've had 1 person claim the spreadsheet severely undervalued MM dps. Now we have an overestimation. If the sheet is at fault it's likely that one of the shots has changed between builds and is calculated differently from what we tested on beta a few builds ago.

For MM the most likely culprit is Chimera Shot.

I will certainly run some more tests to compare my shot damge to the spreadsheet, as well as the fixed damage weapon test. I'll also fiddle around with the latency settings/Boss settings when I get home.

[Reserving for my results later today]

Leighlu · 10/30/08, 1:16 PM

Originally Posted by Zeuxis

The most common differences I find between the sheet's output and my "real" dps are things the sheet cannot control: gcd loss, buff/debuff uptime, and movement. This was true for the original Cheeky's sheet as well. I always assume because the sheet works under ideal conditions, its output is going to be a bit higher than actual. Thus far under raid conditions this has proved to be the case.

Depending on the fight, of course, but I used to find that the 'unbuffed' spreadsheet dps was fairly accurate with buffed raid performance due to those factors.

Shandara's sheet is awfully damn accurate for me against target dummies.

Tynobu · 10/30/08, 3:48 PM

I know that you were looking for info on all the stats from 71-80, but has the issue where racial stats were all identical been resolved? I ask because I am trying to figure out why, even though it's a minor issue and barely affects DPS because of mana relating to Hawk/Viper uptime, my unbuffed health and mana are reporting low at lvl 70.

The spreadsheet has my listed health as 383 less than actual, and my mana 127 less than actual, even though I have the correct race selected, all the gear, gems, enchants are correct, and all my stats (Stam and Int specifically for this issue) are exactly what I have in game. My AP, Crit, Hit rating etc. are all matching exactly my paper doll in game if I set my target to lvl 70, so am relatively confident I don't have any boxes checked that I shouldn't have or vice-versa.

Kushana · 10/30/08, 4:32 PM

The instructions on the Gear Planner tab talk about the CalcAttributes button on the Gear tab, but that button has moved to the Overview tab. The instructions should be updated.

Masterdragon · 10/30/08, 4:37 PM

Just a small bug report for you.

~Under Rings for the Gear Tab, there is no Custom Selection.
~Also is there anyway the gear can maybe be sorted alpha wise.

Other then that, great job on the updates so far.

vith · 10/30/08, 6:59 PM

@Shandara: Ah, that makes sense. I probably clicked something while it was calculating.

By the way, Office 2007 complains about compatibility on every save:

Compatibility Report for Vith_76c.xls			
Run on 10/30/2008 16:05			
			
The following features in this workbook are not supported by earlier versions of Excel. These features may be lost or degraded when you save this workbook in an earlier file format.			
			
Minor loss of fidelity			# of occurrences
			
Some formulas in this workbook are linked to other workbooks that are closed. When these formulas are recalculated in earlier versions of Excel without opening the linked workbooks, characters beyond the 255-character limit cannot be returned.			"1
Defined Names"

I looked through the Name Manager and the only weird thing I see this: AutoShotFrequency='C:\Users\vith\Desktop\Old Versions\[V52.xls]Shot Rotation'!$M$56
Not sure why it has a full path that seems to be mine, I've never had a folder or file with that name.

I changed it to =AutosPerSecond and it no longer complains. I'm sure you'll know better than I whether it should be =AutoShotSpeed instead, or if it's no longer used and needs to be removed.

@Masterdragon: Custom Ring 1 and Custom Ring 2 seem to be filtered out if you don't enable WoTLK gear. Probably a bug, but just check all the boxes on the Gear Planner. To sort alphabetically, click [Alphabetize] on the Gear Planner.

Thorinson · 10/31/08, 4:36 AM

Could you include mp5 as one of the attributes used in CalcAttribute? If you choose 'Viper to OOM' or 'Viper - Regen' for your Aspect Behavior, it should affect dps after all.

Shandara · 10/31/08, 10:48 AM

Update:

- Fixed issue with Battle Shout not stacking properly
- Fixed issue with Swift Retribution not working
- Fixed issue with defined named being called from an older version of the sheet
- Fixed circular reference with Meteorite Whetstone
- Added boss targets with 10% more armor (for announced change)
- Fixed missing rings on gear drop down menu
- +30 Hit scope fixed (Blizzard changed the name on the armory)
- Added new wotlk JC ring/necklace

baldeagle · 10/31/08, 12:47 PM

Thanks for the quick update. One thing though, the link on first page of this thread is still showing v76c. I may just be jumping the gun if you have not had time yet to do that, but just thought I would let you know.

seuchenvogel · 10/31/08, 12:51 PM

Hello Shandara,

thanks for the very good tool.
I have created a simmilar one by myself but it not as all as comfortable as yours (Cheeky's).

According to my calculation it makes a differnce if a sv-hunter does use the explosive shot in his shot rotation. When I play my hunter in Sunwell there are very view situation that does not allow the explosive shot. So usualle I fire it every 6 seconds (I have a macro for it). While doing this the damage of my hunter is very close to the damage of the MM-hunter in raid (and he has the same equipe as me).

My theoretical calculation as well as my measurments (recap and recount) show that if the sv hunter has skilled the explosive shot AND is using it in the regular shot rotation that it does noticable increase the damage.

Therefore I did expect that the displayed dps in your sheet gets increased if the explosive shot gets skilled in the talent tab (51th talent point in sv tree). But if do so in your sheet the dps do not change. If you have time for it myabe it is worth for you to think about it and maybe to ubdate your great sheet.

greetings

Seuchenvogel

Shandara · 10/31/08, 1:38 PM

If you take talented shots be sure to include them in the shot priority.

Also, remember it's priority from top to bottom (highest priority to lowest) so don't put Steady Shot as #1 or it won't fire any other shots at all.

grim4o4 · 10/31/08, 4:46 PM

Charge seems to be missing the Tenacity pet tree, should be in place of Dive/Dash. Also, taking a look at the calculation tab I couldn't see the 1% crit being adding for trolls using bows, I may have missed it though. Actually, looking at my crit rate it's lower than my armory crit with no buffs on.

seuchenvogel · 10/31/08, 5:13 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

If you take talented shots be sure to include them in the shot priority.

Also, remember it's priority from top to bottom (highest priority to lowest) so don't put Steady Shot as #1 or it won't fire any other shots at all.

Thats rights. But if you consider this point, the shot rotation which includes the Explosive Shot (before the Steady) than the shot rotation with Explosive Shot makes more dps than the Shot Rotation without the Explosive Shot (only Steady).
The same is as MM. Even if you do not fire a serpent sting, but having the Chimera Shot in the Shot Rotation (Chimera before the Steady) will noticable increase the dps.

greetings

Shandara · 10/31/08, 5:20 PM

Originally Posted by seuchenvogel

Thats rights. But if you consider this point, the shot rotation which includes the Explosive Shot (before the Steady) than the shot rotation with Explosive Shot makes more dps than the Shot Rotation without the Explosive Shot (only Steady).
The same is as MM. Even if you do not fire a serpent sting, but having the Chimera Shot in the Shot Rotation (Chimera before the Steady) will noticable increase the dps.

greetings

I'm not sure I understand what you want to say (or in your previous post).

Naturally, using Chimera and Explosive in the rotation will increase DPS. And the sheet reflects this.

seuchenvogel · 10/31/08, 6:35 PM

Hello,

OK, i will try it again. (Sorry if its not clear what I mean, English is not my native language).
I was using the sheet on tab "talents".
First I imported my char from arsenal.
Then, for testing i reset all talent points.
The sheet on tab talents shows the dps in the upper left corner.
If I set a talent point then instantly the dps got increased (if the talent is increasing the dps like the talent "Hunters vs. Wild").
But if I set a talent point in the talent "Explosive Shot" then the dps got NOT increased. I expected that the displayed dps gets as well increased if the talent "Explosive Shot" gots learned.

I hope I could make a bit clearer what I mean. Sorry again for my bad English!

Gearknight · 10/31/08, 6:39 PM

You have to add Explosive Shot to your shot rotation on the tab of the same name before its use will be reflected in the DPS calculation. Simply adding the talent point doesn't affect your DPS, just like it wouldn't in the game - you have to fire the shot for it to do DPS, and you have to tell the spreadsheet that you want to fire it for it to be included.

Littlehelper · 11/01/08, 7:25 AM

Originally Posted by Gearknight

You have to add Explosive Shot to your shot rotation on the tab of the same name before its use will be reflected in the DPS calculation. Simply adding the talent point doesn't affect your DPS, just like it wouldn't in the game - you have to fire the shot for it to do DPS, and you have to tell the spreadsheet that you want to fire it for it to be included.

My guess is that the problem is, that Explosive is already included in the rotation and he hopes Explosive won't be used unless you have the talent for it.(That's not the case at the moment. The spreadsheet does not check whether you may use those skills. Except for BW)
So if you want to test the DPS of the Explosive Shot Talent you first have to remove the Explosive Shot from the rotation and then add it again and compare those DPS-numbers.

Splaktar · 11/01/08, 11:02 PM

On the buffs tab, for the Hunter the scrolls seem to be broken. It defaults to Yes and 'V', but when you use the drop down it lets you select 'Agility', Int, Stam, but when you do it is not reflected to the right. They all stay at 0. Is this because scrolls no longer stack with certain buffs or is it just a bug in the spreadsheet?

Shandara · 11/02/08, 4:05 AM

Originally Posted by Splaktar

On the buffs tab, for the Hunter the scrolls seem to be broken. It defaults to Yes and 'V', but when you use the drop down it lets you select 'Agility', Int, Stam, but when you do it is not reflected to the right. They all stay at 0. Is this because scrolls no longer stack with certain buffs or is it just a bug in the spreadsheet?

Scrolls no longer stack with other stat-enhancing buffs.

samfisher · 11/02/08, 7:46 AM

Is this in the new Beta build? As far as I know on Live, I ca eat Agi food and Scroll up just fine, but somehow fully buffed, scrolls don't show up on my Buff bars. Is this already in live and just implimented in the spreadsheet or is it a new introduction in the beta build and the current bug I see is just a buff icon not showing? Have not tested if the Food and Scroll stat actually aded on each other (somehow I forgot to do that...)

Nakari · 11/02/08, 7:55 AM

Originally Posted by samfisher

Is this in the new Beta build? As far as I know on Live, I ca eat Agi food and Scroll up just fine, but somehow fully buffed, scrolls don't show up on my Buff bars. Is this already in live and just implimented in the spreadsheet or is it a new introduction in the beta build and the current bug I see is just a buff icon not showing? Have not tested if the Food and Scroll stat actually aded on each other (somehow I forgot to do that...)

Food and scrolls do stack, but scrolls don't stack with buffs like Power Word: Fortitude or Arcane Intellect, or in case of Scrolls of Strength and Agility, with Strength of Earth Totem. As soon as a Shaman places the totem, the scroll buffs will vanish.

samfisher · 11/02/08, 9:55 AM

Hmm? I think I still get my Food buff, I just never get my Scroll buff. Will check again next raid.