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06/24/09, 2:48 PM
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#2911
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by jenkins3030
Next i picked up my fourth piece of tier8, chest and helm 8.5, and gloves and legs 8.0. (i'm still waiting for shoulders so i can go with those and switch the leggings to saronite meshed legguards) So i switched from saronite meshed legguards to the valorous scourgestalker leggings, and gloves of the fiery behemoth to valorous scourgestalker handguards but saw a slight dps loss from the switch despite gaining the 4-set bonus. overall my crit stayed about the same, gained some atk power, a bit of haste, the 4pc bonus of course, but lost around 8% armor pen.
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I would say that you are taking some great gloves and replacing them with the weakest of the tier pieces (and at ilvl 219 at that) and taking probably the best legs and doing the same ilvl downgrade. The 4pc bonus probably doesn't make up for the far weaker stats. You didn't say how much agility you lost. Those gloves and legs have insane amounts of agility, and the tier versions just don't.
Now, I may be wrong, and it could be something else, but this is what I saw with the same gloves and Darkcore Leggings (also lots of agi).
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06/24/09, 7:25 PM
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#2912
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Von Kaiser
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A hit cap example
Originally Posted by Kathucka
As it stands, the gear planner, regardless of which hit rating setting you use, will often fail completely on items with hit rating. It shows an item as a downgrade, when, with appropriate re-gemming and re-enchanting, it is actually a substantial upgrade. This makes it useless for its intended purpose.
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It occurred to me that I should provide an example to show just how useless the gear planner currently is in some circumstances.
The gear planner shows the [Surge Needle Ring] to be a 2 DPS downgrade from my [Ring of Invincibility]. However, if I swap it in on the Gear tab, and swap out all my hit rating gems for agility (still leaving me well over the cap, BTW), my total DPS goes up by 20.
So, it's off by 22, and shows an upgrade as a downgrade.
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06/24/09, 8:46 PM
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#2913
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Shandara
For ranged weapons, remember to use the 'Ranged Weapons' button on the Gear Planner often.
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There does seem to be something weird going on between Giant's Bane and Magnetized Projective Emitter though. The gear planner always values Giant's Bane higher, but swapping in the Emitter results in higher dps even without swapping out gems for the extra hit rating.
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06/25/09, 7:00 AM
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#2914
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Glass Joe
Dwarf Hunter
Antonidas (EU)
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@Kathucka: If changing out your +hit gems for AGI, still leaves you "well over the cap", then why do you still gem for +hit? How much hit do you have when you put on the Surge Needle Ring, since it has 32 +hit?
If you are already above the hit cap by the rest of your gear including +hit gems, and then put on a ring with +hit, it is less good than a ring with all damage stats. After you changed your gems to AGI *and* put on the ring (has 32 +hit), you are still over the cap. With the other ring you wouldn't. That is probably why it can be both, a downgrade and an upgrade, depending on the rest of your gear settings.
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06/25/09, 9:44 AM
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#2915
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Bald Bull
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Originally Posted by Gadget
@Kathucka: If changing out your +hit gems for AGI, still leaves you "well over the cap", then why do you still gem for +hit? How much hit do you have when you put on the Surge Needle Ring, since it has 32 +hit?
If you are already above the hit cap by the rest of your gear including +hit gems, and then put on a ring with +hit, it is less good than a ring with all damage stats. After you changed your gems to AGI *and* put on the ring (has 32 +hit), you are still over the cap. With the other ring you wouldn't. That is probably why it can be both, a downgrade and an upgrade, depending on the rest of your gear settings.
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Clearly, in Kathucka's situation, he is not "well over the hit cap" prior to equipping the Surge Needle Ring. I presume he has just enough +hit gems to put him to the cap. The point is that equipping the ring (which has +32 hit) allows him to change these few hit gems to agility, remain hit capped, and get a DPS gain, rather than "wasting" the +32 hit rating (since he's already hit capped, albeit through gems).
He was showing an example of why the spreadsheet should at least give the option of counting excess hit as something of value (whether it be the DPS of hit or agility or whatever).
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06/25/09, 12:14 PM
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#2916
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Glass Joe
Night Elf Hunter
Kael'thas (EU)
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Hi, here's my wow armory link : The World of Warcraft Armory
I have recently acquired the Magnetized Projectile Emitter ( [Magnetized Projectile Emitter]) from XT 10 HM and there's something verry odd :
Siren's Cry would give me 16 more dps, Giant's bane 19more but the dps of the weapon is the same and the max-min damage are also lower than the MPE. I doubt it's because of the armor Pen. Please help me !
Thanks
(I'm alliance so I'm capped (7%) in a raid environnement even without the hit from MPE so its not that)
Edit : i forgot
Last edited by vashe9 : 06/25/09 at 12:20 PM.
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06/25/09, 12:28 PM
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#2917
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Don Flamenco
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EDIT: mooted.
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06/25/09, 1:45 PM
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#2918
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Great Tiger
Night Elf Hunter
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
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Originally Posted by VRoscioli
He was showing an example of why the spreadsheet should at least give the option of counting excess hit as something of value (whether it be the DPS of hit or agility or whatever).
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This is something I'm working on, but it's not trivial to determine which gems can be replaced (I can't just count any points of hit rating over the cap as agility, because they only come in chunks of 8 or 16 on gems) and how they are replaced.
At least it's not trivial to do in plain Excel (VBscript it's doable, but I want to avoid using that since this is supposed to work on the gear planner).
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06/25/09, 1:59 PM
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#2919
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Bald Bull
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Originally Posted by Shandara
(I can't just count any points of hit rating over the cap as agility, because they only come in chunks of 8 or 16 on gems)
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While that is true, just doing it point-for-point would be more accurate than what we have now, and would probably be sufficient imo.
EDIT: To elaborate, doing it point for point would at least give it a good metric for at-a-glance upgrades. Sure, the fact that it might be off by a few DPS due to being off by up to 7 agility might affect the relative position of side-grades, the real concern is being able to correctly identify a solid upgrade (e.g. the Surge Needle Ring example).
But I agree, if you want to model it very accurately, it is very nontrivial, as it becomes an optimization problem (since you need to take into account possible socket bonuses, the effect of removing an enchant like Icewalker, etc), and optimization problems aren't really what the spreadsheet is built for.
TL;DR: Point-for-point is easy and gives relatively good at-a-glance results. Modeling the exchange of individual gems is (potentially very) difficult but gives more accurate numbers.
Last edited by VRoscioli : 06/25/09 at 2:06 PM.
Reason: elaboration
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06/25/09, 2:07 PM
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#2920
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Glass Joe
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Latency inconsistency?
The Latency setting on the Shot Rotation tab seems a bit inconsistent. With my current setup I am seeing higher DPS at 80ms (7916) than 75ms (7891) when I hit the Test Rotation button after changing the Latency. I've been trying out some low numbers lately because my guild has set up a tunneling connection to our WoW server that reduces latency to the 25-75 range.
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06/25/09, 2:14 PM
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#2921
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Bald Bull
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Originally Posted by vashe9
(I'm alliance so I'm capped (7%) in a raid environnement even without the hit from MPE so its not that)
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Because if you are not using the +hit on the MPE, the others are simply better.
Comparison:
SC vs MPE (16 Agi in socket)
-7 Agi
+25 Crit
+22 Haste
-20 AP
I think the crit and haste outweigh the AP and Agi
GB vs MPE (16 Agi in socket)
+21 ArP
+27 Haste
-7 Agi
-20 AP
The Arp and haste outweigh the Agi and AP by even more
Without using the hit on the MPE, the others are simply better.
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06/25/09, 2:16 PM
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#2922
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Bald Bull
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Originally Posted by Scrith
The Latency setting on the Shot Rotation tab seems a bit inconsistent. With my current setup I am seeing higher DPS at 80ms (7916) than 75ms (7891) when I hit the Test Rotation button after changing the Latency. I've been trying out some low numbers lately because my guild has set up a tunneling connection to our WoW server that reduces latency to the 25-75 range.
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My guess is that with these particular latency values and your haste rating, the shot rotation is lining up slightly differently. This has a similar effect to waiting for a higher-DPS shot, for some latency/haste combinations.
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06/25/09, 2:28 PM
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#2923
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by VRoscioli
Because if you are not using the +hit on the MPE, the others are simply better.
Comparison:
SC vs MPE (16 Agi in socket)
-7 Agi
+25 Crit
+22 Haste
-20 AP
I think the crit and haste outweigh the AP and Agi
GB vs MPE (16 Agi in socket)
+21 ArP
+27 Haste
-7 Agi
-20 AP
The Arp and haste outweigh the Agi and AP by even more
Without using the hit on the MPE, the others are simply better.
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On the other side though, if you are using the +hit, then the MPE is better. For instance, if the 27 hit was used to replace 24 hit rating in gems with 24 agility, then the differences are:
SC vs MPE (16 Agi in socket)
-31 Agi
+25 Crit
+22 Haste
-20 AP
GB vs MPE (16 Agi in socket)
+21 ArP
+27 Haste
-31 Agi
-20 AP
31 more agility is a big deal since that is really 35.5 agility with CE and BoK. This equates to about 39 AP and 0.42% crit. Thus:
SC vs. MPE
-59 AP
+0.13% crit
+22 haste
GB vs. MPE
+21 ArP
+27 haste
- 59 AP
- 0.42% crit
Hence, although I have both GB and MPE, I use the MPE since it allows me to replace hit in other places for more DPS.
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06/25/09, 3:12 PM
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#2924
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Bald Bull
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Originally Posted by Whitefyst
On the other side though, if you are using the +hit, then the MPE is better. For instance, if the 27 hit was used to replace 24 hit rating in gems with 24 agility, then the differences are:
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Oh I agree absolutely, I was just explaining why it was worse for him (as he indicated has was not using any of the hit).
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06/25/09, 4:32 PM
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#2925
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Extra Special
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89g: [Band of Lights] is classified as an Ulduar-25 drop. According to Wowhead comments, this item actually drops from Algalon-10, which would be Ulduar-10 Hard.
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