WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 2

Shandara · 08/20/08, 6:31 AM

Updated first post with version 56.

- Rabid changed to drop off at 30sec mark. With Longevity the stack remains, thus leading to higher uptime.
- Pet Attack power modifiers on the target (Expose Weakness, IHM) now scale with Rabid and Call of the Wild.
- Pets gain full +hit from their masters now (this is only +hit from gear, not talents)
- Added Draenei heroic presence as a buff
- Added DK Abomination's Might to hunter/pet buffs, select uptime% as a modifier
- Cleared up the RAP and PAP calculations by first adding all the numerical bonuses and then lastly all the multiplicative ones. Please check it if it's correct
- Added new Windfury Totem. Affects autoshot speed and pet melee attack speed
- Strenght of Earth changed to add both strength and agility, grace of air totem removed as buff
- Added Earth and Moon debuff; adds both nature and arcane damage, select stacks as modifier
- Fixed Savage Rend, it gave +30% damage instead of +10% over 30 seconds
- Added Sanctified Retribution and Swift Retribution buffs
- Lock and Load now replaces 2 shots when it procs, rather than 3, because the CD of Arc/Explosive Shot won't have reset after the 3rd free shot
- Added Blood Frenzy debuff

Prinsesa · 08/20/08, 6:49 AM

# Greater Blessing of Might (Do many paladins take the improvement talent?)

Please do note that 5/5 Improved BoM is current +50% AP on the Beta, which means the level 70 version goes from 255 AP base to 382.5 AP talented, while the level 80 version goes from 350 AP to 525 AP.

I think it's safe to assume that yes, most Paladins can and will want to take the Improved talent when Wrath hits.

Chul · 08/20/08, 6:55 AM

I think they way boss health is used needs to be changed:

Firstly, I'd remove the selection of boss health.

Then average out Feeding Frenzy over the entire fight (i.e. 40% * percent of time spent under 20% for 2/2 FF) rather than having it either as +40% or +0% damage.

To handle Kill Shot, you should probably split the shot rotation into two: One for 100%-20%, and the other for 20%-0% then average the damage done based on the percentage of time spent under 20% similar to FF.

This should allow a much better representative average DPS over a boss fight.

EDIT: Just noticed Monstrous Bite calculations use 4% dmg per stack, when it is 3% dmg per stack.

Shandara · 08/20/08, 7:27 AM

Originally Posted by Chul

I think they way boss health is used needs to be changed:

Firstly, I'd remove the selection of boss health.

Then average out Feeding Frenzy over the entire fight (i.e. 40% * percent of time spent under 20% for 2/2 FF) rather than having it either as +40% or +0% damage.

To handle Kill Shot, you should probably split the shot rotation into two: One for 100%-20%, and the other for 20%-0% then average the damage done based on the percentage of time spent under 20% similar to FF.

This should allow a much better representative average DPS over a boss fight.

EDIT: Just noticed Monstrous Bite calculations use 4% dmg per stack, when it is 3% dmg per stack.

You can use the 'Calculate Average DPS' button on the shot rotation tab to calculate the dps for either 100%-30%, 30%-20% and 20%-0. So you get figures for each of the possible phases of a boss fight. It adjusts the talent effects automatically.

Small update to Version 56:

- Added new WotLK ranks of Blessing of Might + updated imp. Blessing of Might talent bonus
- Added new WotLK ranks of Blessing of Wisdom
- Added new WotLK ranks of Strength of Earth and talent modifiers
- Added new WotLK ranks of Gift of the Wild and talent changes
- Added new WotLK ranks of Prayer of Fortitude
- Added new WotLK rank of Blood Pact
- Changed Sunder Armor and Faerie Fire to their level 80 values

Shandara · 08/20/08, 7:29 AM

Originally Posted by Chul

To handle Kill Shot, you should probably split the shot rotation into two: One for 100%-20%, and the other for 20%-0% then average the damage done based on the percentage of time spent under 20% similar to FF.

Mind you, the calculation won't use Kill Shot if it's not in your rotation.

EDIT:

Just noticed Monstrous Bite calculations use 4% dmg per stack, when it is 3% dmg per stack.

Thanks for the catching that.

Lactose · 08/20/08, 7:42 AM

- Some talented pet abilities seem to be active be considered active even when no talent points are invested in the talent. Noticed Call of the Wild being active (giving 1% bonus to "Total invisible bonuses, this value seemed to be rounded up).
Call of the Wild seems to be active regardless if pet has spent talent points there, or even if the pet does not belong to the "Ferocity" familiy.

- Multiplicative bonuses do not apply to target debuffs. I've tested this with Hunter's Mark and Master Marksman - most likely this is true for all debuffs and all multiplicative bonuses.

EDIT:
- The spreadsheet is not using the correct formula for Steady Shot, it does not seem to be including Ammo DPS.
The correct formula is:
SteadyShotDamage = RAP*0.2 + AmmoDPS*2.8 + (WeaponDamage/WeaponSpeed)*2.8 + SteadyShotBonusDamage + [Dazed: DazedBonusDamage]

Shandara · 08/20/08, 7:53 AM

Originally Posted by Lactose

- Some talented pet abilities seem to be active be considered active even when no talent points are invested in the talent. Noticed Call of the Wild being active (giving 1% bonus to "Total invisible bonuses, this value seemed to be rounded up).
Call of the Wild seems to be active regardless if pet has spent talent points there, or even if the pet does not belong to the "Ferocity" familiy.

- Multiplicative bonuses do not apply to target debuffs. I've tested this with Hunter's Mark and Master Marksman - most likely this is true for all debuffs and all multiplicative bonuses.

Thanks,

Problem was that Call of the Wild only checked if it was in the pet's rotation, not whether you actually had the talent. Unfortunately fiddling with talents/pet family doesn't automatically update your pet's rotation yet (i.e. disabling skills that the pet doesn't have).

As for Multiplicative bonuses not applying to target debuffs, that's a new one to me. I'll take it along for the next version.

EDIT:
Thanks for the steady shot formula catch. I hadn't touched that part yet. Steady shot was also not counting the base weapon dps correctly. This will be fixed as well.

Ravenfire · 08/20/08, 1:08 PM

Your math on Wild Quiver is off. It is 1/2/3 talent points for a 4/7/10% chance to proc in beta but you have it as 4/8/12% chance to proc in your sheet.

Edit: Chimera Shot does 40% of the TOTAL damage of Serpent Sting. Currently on Beta I see these numbers for non critting Chimera's:
NOTE: Current beta still has Chimera at 150% weapon damage
~1100 for non serpent stung mobs (after armor)
~2100 for rank 10 serpent stung mobs (after armor)

Math using 1.45% damage modifier for the currently bugged Serpent sting. Since a % increase to damage is the same when applied before or after armor we can estimate that Chimera's base damage as:
1100 * 1.45 = 1595 (after armor)

Solo play with my gear as MM spec, I have just over 3000 RAP self buffed. (Imp stings, RWS and SS bug applied)
Serpent sting rank 10 = (3000*0.1+660)*1.3*1.05*1.45 = 1900 (Currently Marked for Death only reads SHOTS as getting 10% bonus damage, so i am leaving it out untill i can prove that it effects both shots and stings)

based on your equation i should calculate serpent stings contribution to Chimera as:
1900 / 5 * 0.4 = 152 (pre armor)
152 * 0.7 = 106 (after armor)
thus Chimera + serpent = 1595 + 106 = 1700ish which doen't match up very well with what i am seeing in the Beta.

Using 40% of the total damage of Serpent sting yeilds the following:
1900 * 0.4 = 760 (pre armor)
760 * 0.7 = 532 (after armor)
Chimera + serpent = 1595 + 532 = 2127
this calculation yeilds results that are much closer to what I am actually seeing in Beta.

Also I don't think you are calculating Chimera's damage correctly with regards to how you apply the 125% weapon damage effect. The way i read your calculations is that you are taking Base weapon damage * 1.25 = chimera's base damage without serpent sting. But looking at your Base Weapon Damage equation you use a critical damage modifier of 133.9%. This should be the same 147.29% as Aimed, Kill, and Steady shots based on Marked for Death's 10% critical damage bonus to Aimed, Kill, Steady, AND CHIMERA shots. You some how need to include that 10% bonus damage for crits into your equation(s).

Shandara · 08/20/08, 2:18 PM

Thanks for the report, I was unsure how Chimera worked since the wording on the tooltip isn't quite clear. The Wild Quiver is my mistake, I'm guessing the talent is actually 3,33%/6,67%/10% but they round it as usual. The Chimera base damage is also a thing I'll fix in the next version.

Edit:
With Chimera Shot refreshing Serpent Sting, this does boost it's DPS quite a bit. Chimera Shot is by far the most powerful shot.

Edit#2:
I also realized I'm not using the mana reduction on Improved Steady Shot yet.

Edit#3: Small update; version 56b

- Talents that modify AP by % don't affect debuffs on targets anymore (Expose Weakness, Hunter's Mark)
- Fixed Steady Shot damage formula. Now counts Ammo correctly and uses the base weapon DPS normalized as well
- Cunning pets now have a 105% damage mod instead of 100% (source Mania's Arcana)
- Talented pet skills now automatically are not used in the pet rotation if you don't have the talent points in them. They still remain in the rotation list though. You have to manually remove/replace them
- Chimera Shot now properly gets 10% extra crit bonus damage from Marked for Death and deals 40% of Serpent's Stings TOTAL damage, not just 40% of a tick
- Improved Steady Shot now reduces Arcane/Aimed/Chimera Shot mana costs
- Wild quiver now does 4/7/10% chance to proc instead of 4/8/12%

Ravenfire · 08/20/08, 3:55 PM

I found another error in your sheet. On the Calculations tab for Steady shot mana cost you reference 'Shot Rotation'!E13 which appears to be the mana cost of Kill Shot (428) not steady shot (117). It should reference 'Shot Rotation'!E12. This would explain why I was startled by the very low dpm ratio steady shot has according to your sheet.

Edit: Also noticed that it doesn't appear that you are applying armor mitigation to Chimera shot which does physical damage and is thus reduced by armor.
P.S. Nice work so far on the sheet. Keep up the good work. =)

Shandara · 08/20/08, 4:34 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenfire

I found another error in your sheet. On the Calculations tab for Steady shot mana cost you reference 'Shot Rotation'!E13 which appears to be the mana cost of Kill Shot (428) not steady shot (117). It should reference 'Shot Rotation'!E12. This would explain why I was startled by the very low dpm ratio steady shot has according to your sheet.

Edit: Also noticed that it doesn't appear that you are applying armor mitigation to Chimera shot which does physical damage and is thus reduced by armor.
P.S. Nice work so far on the sheet. Keep up the good work. =)

Cheers, this would explain why Chimera seemed so awesome

Cheeky · 08/20/08, 5:56 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenfire

I found another error in your sheet. On the Calculations tab for Steady shot mana cost you reference 'Shot Rotation'!E13 which appears to be the mana cost of Kill Shot (428) not steady shot (117). It should reference 'Shot Rotation'!E12. This would explain why I was startled by the very low dpm ratio steady shot has according to your sheet.

P.S. Nice work so far on the sheet. Keep up the good work. =)

I found the best way to handle this kind of error was to name as many cells as possible. This way it becomes quickly visible when you are referencing the wrong ones. And count me among those happy you're going through all this effort!

Kindinos · 08/20/08, 6:23 PM

I was thinking of starting work on a Web-based spreadsheet type app (PHP and MySQL) for WotLK. Unfortunately, I don't have a beta key, and have no idea how to start, given that I haven't looked into the formulas and models used to calculate DPS.

As a web developer, I would be willing to work with you to translate the excel formulas and functions into a PHP program that uses a MySQL database to store data on items, gems, enchants, etc. Also, it would be possible to save a hunter's configuration and "send" it to another person for looking at, comparing, etc. Could also make a sort of leaderboard to see who has the highest theoretical DPS.

brigwyn · 08/20/08, 8:05 PM

Since Wertez and Indora took over with Cheeky's blessing, much of this may have already been incorporated.

Would it be possible we work together instead of having multiple flavors out there? Not saying it has to be held at The Hunting Lodge, here's fine, I just hate for the hunter community to get in an uproar over what is the "Official" Hunter DPS Spreadsheet.

Feel free to look at what we've been doing since Cheeky and Lactose retired.

(Hunter DPS Spreadsheet Forum)
(Hunter DPS Spreadsheet Download)

Like I said duplicate efforts and confusion might be a problem. But either way. Good luck!!

Originally Posted by Kindinos

I was thinking of starting work on a Web-based spreadsheet type app (PHP and MySQL) for WotLK. Unfortunately, I don't have a beta key, and have no idea how to start, given that I haven't looked into the formulas and models used to calculate DPS.

As a web developer, I would be willing to work with you to translate the excel formulas and functions into a PHP program that uses a MySQL database to store data on items, gems, enchants, etc. Also, it would be possible to save a hunter's configuration and "send" it to another person for looking at, comparing, etc. Could also make a sort of leaderboard to see who has the highest theoretical DPS.

Kindinos.. did you receive your account info for hosting it at the Lodge?

Chul · 08/20/08, 8:24 PM

Originally Posted by Shandara

You can use the 'Calculate Average DPS' button on the shot rotation tab to calculate the dps for either 100%-30%, 30%-20% and 20%-0. So you get figures for each of the possible phases of a boss fight. It adjusts the talent effects automatically.

I definately think Feeding Frenzy needs to be averaged over the fight rather than a snapshot in time. It's currently either a +40% or +0% dmg increase depending on what I select as the boss health.

Hopefully I can explain what I mean about Kill Shot a little better

Kill Shot doesn't beat most other shots, so it will have a low priority. In fact, it may never be cast at all since all the GCDs will be used by higher priority shots.

However, once the boss is < 20% health, Kill Shot is generally more damage and therefore it should be moved up higher in priority. How high the priority depends on talents and buffs. Currently the spreadsheet doesn't allow that. So what I was suggesting is to split the shot rotation in two (one for >20%, one for <20%) so we can change our rotation at that point and work out a new optimal shot rotation. The total damage would be averaged over the time spent in each % section.