WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 22

Shandara · 11/08/08, 6:53 PM

Originally Posted by Osse

Would it be possible to add some kind of "rolling ignite" option to the spreadsheet which would use the attack power you have with on use AP trinket, blood fury and drums of war throughout the fight for serpent sting sting and CS-S? As it's somewhere around 10-12% boost to serpent sting and CS-S proc assuming that the sting will never drop. (Which is very likely in a lot of fights)

I'm working on this for a next version.

Osse · 11/08/08, 6:59 PM

Awesome, cheers.

I guess it's just a matter of time before it gets fixed like ignite and lifebloom.

na-oma · 11/08/08, 7:11 PM

Hi Shandara+Cheeky, thanks for the wonderful spreadsheet.
I am working on implementing the Hunter-Class in Simcraft: SimulationCraft Model Development
Currently I am trying to get the formulas for every shot right. I thougt a good starting-point would be your sheet. I wrote down the formula for every shot, did not know they where so different from each other: some do factor scopes in, some don't, some have ammo*2.8, some ammo*speed, and so on.

Have you got a source of the formulas? I tried to search EJ, found some bits, looked at Lactose's website, but i found nothing where the info is condensed.

I ask this, because the transition from tbc to wrath might have introduced some bugs. If we can make sure the calculations are spot-on (at least with the latest research), both the spreadsheet and simcraft will benefit. And the hunters of course

For example in the sheet, Kill Shot only is affected by "Ring Enchant", but not by "+weapon_dmg from Trinket". Or Steady Shot has a field which references "+ Damage Gear", but this is not used for the calculation of Steady's damage.

I would be glad if we could get some summary of the shots together, that might even end up in the think tank.
Maybe a new topic would be appropriate then.

Thank you in advance!

Shandara · 11/08/08, 7:27 PM

Those bits are mostly oversights.

I (nor others) haven't extensively tested the shots that far to see whether the +damage trinkets and/or enchants affect all shots (it is merely assumed they do). At some point I'll have to clean it up.

As for generic damage formulas, most of the research should be in this thread but as you say it's rather fragmented. I'll see if I can distill the stuff in the sheet into something more readable and put it up in this thread for verification/comments.

Eurytos · 11/08/08, 10:22 PM

Hi. I apologize if these have already been mentioned.

-Blood Fury is now off of the GCD.
-Blood Fury is not reset by Readiness.

na-oma · 11/09/08, 12:08 AM

That's what i currently got, sorry if its a bit big. In which order what talents and multipliers are applied....thats another question.

(Source: Hunter Dps spreadsheet Shandara/Cheeky, v77)


			
ammo_dmg        = ammo_dps * weapon_speed

plus_weapon_dmg = ring_enchants + trinket



auto:

=====

0               + weapon_dmg + plus_weapon_dmg    + scope_dmg    + ammo_dmg       + rap/14*weapon_speed;



steady:

=======

steady_base_dmg + weapon_dmg / weapon_speed * 2.8                + ammo_dps * 2.8 + rap*0.2

//you have a field for "+ Damage Gear", but are not adding it to the sum. is that intentional?



multi:

======

multi_base_dmg  + weapon_dmg + plus_weapon_dmg    + scope_dmg    + ammo_dmg       + rap/14*2.8



arcane(arcane):

=======

arcane_base_dmg + ring_enchants                                                   + rap * 0.15

//ring enchants count, but trinket doesn't?

//ring enchants increase "physical damage", but is arcane physical?

//okay trinket increases "weapon dmg", so this might be right?!



aimed:

======

aimed_base_dmg  + weapon_dmg / weapon_speed * 2.8 + scope_dmg    + ammo_dps * 2.8 + rap/14*2.8

//old spreadsheet w/ casting time:

aimed_base_dmg  + weapon_dmg                      + scope_dmg    + ammo_dmg       + rap/14*2.8

//Why no dmg-increasing buffs?

//Since Aimed is instant now, shouldn't its formula be more like multi's, instead of steady's?



explosive(fire): 3 times

======

explosive_base_dmg                                                                + rap*0.08



kill shot:

======

kill_base_dmg        + (rap*0.2 + ammo_dmg + weapon_dmg) * 2 + ring_enchants      + rap*0.4

//Is the rap really factored in twice, or is it only "weapon_dmg"?

//Only Ring enchats, no Trinket?



chimera shot:

======

(SERPENT_DMG_BEFORE_TARGET)*0.4    + (rap*0.2 + ammo_dmg + weapon_dmg) * 1.25



serpent sting(nature):

======

serpent_base_dmg                                                                  + rap * 0.2

Shandara · 11/09/08, 5:58 AM

Ok, I've tamed a Gorilla and while testing I noticed the following:

* Contrary to what I learned from other forums/posters, it still deals Nature Damage
* Crits for 150% damage
* Seems to follow the 42,875% scaling of other 'magic' abilities.
* Can partially resist/fully resist (i.e. miss)

From letting the pet hit a level 60 dummy (at level 65), I eliminated all resists/misses. After a 100 Thunderstomps:
Observed damage range: 483 - 670
Observed crits: 732 - 982

Predicted non crit: 483 - 662
Predicted crit: 724 - 993

The overshoot is because I was spec'ed for Ferocious Inspiration which is the only ability I couldn't disable. If all the moons align (i.e. max damage done with Thunderstomp while FI is active) it should've hit 682 as a maximum, but my sample time was too small.

EDIT:
I also ran a series of tests to see if calculated damages for the shot types are correct. Using a Fine Light Crossbow (29-29 damage, 2.7 speed) and disabling all averaging/target buffs in the sheet I compared the observed damages to predicted damages. This to see whether the base damage formulas had changed.

So far Steady Shot, Auto Shot, Multi-Shot, Serpent Sting and Arcane Shot are exactly where they are supposed to be. If any MM and SV hunters can test whether Aimed Shot, Explosive Shot and Chimera Shot are still correct? And Scatter Shot and Silencing Shot, although those are less important.

I'll have to try and find a +weapon damage item (easiest is probably the Ogri'la trinket) to see if they affect all these shots at the base damage.

thehittmann1981 · 11/09/08, 12:08 PM

Just a couple of things that im not sure you are aware of.

For Buffs, Blessing of Might hasn't been updated to it's new form. I'm pretty sure that battle shout hasn;t either.
Agillity scrolls seem to be added nothing but 0-0-0 for hunter as are strength scrolls for pets.

Bainik · 11/09/08, 3:46 PM

I'm still confused as to why the Readiness talent itself adds to your DPS even before adding it to your rotation when adding the skill to be used actually hurts your DPS. is this an error or am I missing something?

Shandara · 11/09/08, 4:02 PM

Originally Posted by Bainik

I'm still confused as to why the Readiness talent itself adds to your DPS even before adding it to your rotation when adding the skill to be used actually hurts your DPS. is this an error or am I missing something?

This is a bug, good catch.

Picked up the Crystalforged trinket (+7 weapon damage)
Auto Shot - affected
Steady Shot - not affected
Arcane Shot - not affected
Multi-Shot - affected

Not tested yet:
Explosive Shot
Aimed Shot
Chimera Shot
Silencing Shot
Scatter Shot

I'm not an enchanter, so I can't test the enchants, but I expect the same results. If anyone can verify?

EDIT:

Originally Posted by thehittmann1981

Just a couple of things that im not sure you are aware of.

For Buffs, Blessing of Might hasn't been updated to it's new form. I'm pretty sure that battle shout hasn;t either.
Agillity scrolls seem to be added nothing but 0-0-0 for hunter as are strength scrolls for pets.

I'll update the sheet to the changes to both for the next version.

EDIT#2:
Been testing a scorpid (69 vs level 60 dummy). Poison remains unchanged and matches predicted values well within error margins. The reports I had of scorpid damage being off is most likely due to unlucky miss/parry/dodges from the boss and the inherent partial resists vs level 73 bosses.

alienangel · 11/10/08, 4:15 AM

Originally Posted by Shandara

I also ran a series of tests to see if calculated damages for the shot types are correct. Using a Fine Light Crossbow (29-29 damage, 2.7 speed) and disabling all averaging/target buffs in the sheet I compared the observed damages to predicted damages. This to see whether the base damage formulas had changed.

So far Steady Shot, Auto Shot, Multi-Shot, Serpent Sting and Arcane Shot are exactly where they are supposed to be. If any MM and SV hunters can test whether Aimed Shot, Explosive Shot and Chimera Shot are still correct? And Scatter Shot and Silencing Shot, although those are less important.

I'll have to try and find a +weapon damage item (easiest is probably the Ogri'la trinket) to see if they affect all these shots at the base damage.

Using version 77 of the spreadsheet I had a shot at testing Aimed and Chimera for you on some rats in the Deeprun Tram, while specced FF (had pet out), RWS, Marked for Death (target was marked, since I couldn't find a way to specify unmarked target in the calculations), barrage, imp barrage and TSA, with mortal shots and a RED as meta - I have imp tracking too, but removed those talent points in the spreadsheet since I can't track critters, and the sheet seems to apply the bonus even when I set creature type to an untrackable type (Mechanical). Used a screeching bow (90-90 range), verified that the spreadsheet had the same RAP and Crit as I had in-game. Also set Armor to 1 and level to 70 (does not accept any lower levels, and uses your default value if I set armor to 0), and disabled AP averaging, and set Aspect to Hawk (Always on). Also used 22 dps ammo.

Sanity checks:

predicted autoshots: 722.8 / 1489.05
actual autoshots: 722-723 / 1488

predicted steadyshots: 1101.57 / 2771.34
actual steadyshots: 1103-1104 / 2741-2742

predicted multishots: 1205.28 / 3038.12
actual multishots: 1204 - 1205 / 2864 - 2865

So aside from the autoshots, the sanity checks didn't go too well - noticeable differences in the crit steadyshot values, and very large differences in the crit multishot values.

Aimed checks:

Predicted Aimed: 1243.77 / 3129.08
Actual Aimed: 1205 / 2992 - 2993

Large differences again.

Chimera checks:

Predicted Chimera: 1057.01 / 2659.22
Actual Chimera: 1057 / 2625 - 2626

Noticeable differences in the crit values again.

Predicted Chimera - Serpent (against a level 60 target dummy, since armor shouldn't matter): 793 - 1586
Actual Chimera - Serpent: 810 - 811 / 1928

More differences (yes I do have glyph of serpent sting both in game and in the spreadsheet).

Am I looking at the wrong values or something? I'm reading predicted off the calculations tab as the "Average Non-Crit Damage" and "Average Crit Damage" pairs.

Also, does anyone know how exactly Volley damage is calculated (per tick, and how the tick frequency is affected by haste). Information on how the AoE damage cap works would also be great, but that's probably documented well enough on Wowwiki anyway.

Also minor gripe - do all the settings between different versions of the spreadsheet have to be incompatible so often

Just going from 76 to 77 I spent about 15 minutes filling everything in again (I don't use a lot of the defaults, so it takes a while) then comparing DPS values with the old one to confirm I hadn't missed something, even though the changes listed for the versions don't seem that huge.

Shandara · 11/10/08, 4:47 AM

Originally Posted by alienangel

Also minor gripe - do all the settings between different versions of the spreadsheet have to be incompatible so often

Just going from 76 to 77 I spent about 15 minutes filling everything in again (I don't use a lot of the defaults, so it takes a while) then comparing DPS values with the old one to confirm I hadn't missed something, even though the changes listed for the versions don't seem that huge.

Thanks for the tests. Unfortunately, when I make major changes to things (adding new functionality and such) and want to actually save that in the exported file it'll break on import of older versions. Also remember that the sheet is technically beta quality right now. Once WotLK hits and Blizzard stop changing mechanics for a while I don't envision any major changes to the sheet, since I feel I get the functionality from it that I want (and what is possible with the excel format).

I'm not sure why you're seeing such differences with the shots though.

Here is how I tested:
I turned off AP averaging and target AP debuffs (i.e. Hunter's Mark). I cleared all buffs.

For sanity check I shot auto-shots with a fixed damage weapon (like you did). If I'd get a proc from a ring or whatnot I'd discount the shot. With a fixed damage weapon auto-shot should vary by 1 damage (rounding error in WoW) at the most.

I had a RED in my helm and 2/5 Mortal Shots and observing the crits for the shots I tested they were spot on.

I used the level 70 target dummy setting (6770 armor) with the dummies in SW.

Kargos · 11/10/08, 4:49 AM

Just something I noticed that's minor.

Blessing of Kings under the Buffs Tab does not currently have a modifier for ranks, ranking 2/4/6/8/10%.

Honestly I don't know what paladin who picks up kings that doesn't finish it off, that's why it's minor ^_^.

alienangel · 11/10/08, 6:10 AM

I had no gear with ap procs on for the tests, so the only procs i could trigger were quick shots and imp steady (neither of which should affect these values (and they weren't up when the test shots were fired anyway, since i was just firing a single shot each time, not summarizing a log of several shots)) and forceful strike (which wouldn't have had such a large effect on level 1 rats). The values observed were also repeated many times so it couldn't be a procced effect anyway.

I finally see the "disable target AP debuffs" option and will try with that and no mark, maybe it's the marked for death math that's causing a problem. I still don't see any options for target dummies, but i'll try the quoted 6770 armor on a 70 dummy thanks (the chimera values were reverified on target dummies btw).

Since the aimed calculations seem off in both hits and crits, I'm curious about the formula na-oma posted. IIRC back when they first normalized them, both aimed and multi used very similar formulae, just with different bonus damage added - both only normalized RAP, without normalizing Ammo (i.e. they used "ammo dmg" in the above formula, not "ammo dps * 2.8"). Did this really change? The formula quoted above for aimed is just the steady shot formula with a different base damage and "rap /14 * 2.8" instead of the equivalent "rap * 0.2".

edit: Given that every crit value other than autoshot is apparently off, maybe there's something weird about how Mortal Shots are being calculated for MM hunters?

If it helps debugging, I had 2947 RAP self-buffed for the test, with another 110 from HM, and the same spec as my armory.

Shandara · 11/10/08, 7:56 AM

Ok, I have a feeling it's Marked for Death that's interfering somehow. I'll remove all my talents and shoot a few shots with a fixed damage range weapon every time I add a talent point to see where it goes wrong with the predicted damage.

Sanity Checks
Settings:
Disable Averaging - Yes
Disable Target AP Buffs - Yes

Using the fine light crossbow (29-29 damage, 2.7 speed) I have 2037 AP, 22.05% crit. I have RED in my helm. No HM on target.

My predicted Auto-Shot is 317,7 non-crit, 654,5 crit.
Observed damage 317-318 and 654-655.

Predicted Steady Shot is 397 and 818 crit.
Observed: 396-397 and 817-818.

My predicted Serpent Sting ticks for 213,5. Observed ticks 213-214.

So far correct. Arcane Shot and Multi-Shot are also spot on.

Now I take 5/5 Lethal Shots and 5/5 Mortal Shots. Predicted Arcane Shot crit is 1376 and predicted Multi-Shot crit is 1082. Observed values still match.

So much for the sanity checks. Mortal Shots at least is not the issue.

Aimed Shot
Now for Aimed Shot; predicted values 458 and 1088. Observed values are 454-455 and 1081-1082

The observed values match a non-normalized weapon and ammo damage contribution. Predicted values without normalization are 455 and 1082. If noone comes with any counter evidence in this case, I'll adjust the calculations for the next version.

Intermediate Talents
Next I spec this build to check whether the passive talents are working correctly.

New stats: 2537 AP, 27.7% crit. TSA is active. No HM on target.

Predicted Auto Shots: 396,7 and 817,7.
Observed: 397 and 817-818

Predicted Steady Shot: 482 and 1147
Observed: 481-482 and 1147-1148

Predicted Serpent Sting tick: 303,4
Observed: 303-304

Predicted Aimed Shot: 543 and 1292
Observed: 543-544 and 1292

Predicted Multi-Shot: 543 and 1292
Observed: 543 and 1291-1292

Predicted Arcane Shot: 686 and 1631
Observed: 686 and 1631-1632

So far so good.

Next tier talents
5/5 Master Marksman
2/2 Rapid Recuperation
3/3 Imp. Steady Shot

This build

No changes in damage (didn't expect any of course).

Marked for Death
With 5/5 in this talent, I run the tests again. 2537 AP, 32,7% crit. No HM on target.

Predicted Auto Shot: 416,5 and 858,0
Observed: 397 and 817

First puzzle, but not long. Bug in Marked for Death calculations not turning off if there's no HM on target. After fixing that I come to:

Predicted Auto Shot: 396,7 and 817,1
Which matches the observed values better.

Predicted Steady Shot: 482 and 1147
Observed: 481-482 and 1197.

Puzzle #2. Crit values are higher than expected. Reading the Marked for Death talent again I observe the following:
Effect 1: Increases your damage done by your shots and the damage done by your pet's special abilities by 1% on marked targets,
Effect 2: and increases the critical strike damage bonus of your Aimed Shot, Steady Shot, Kill Shot or Chimera Shot by 2%.

Effect #2 is not dependant on the target being marked (this was reported a little back in this thread as well).

Adding 10% crit strike damage bonus to Steady Shot leads to a predicted crit value of 1213, which is close but no cigar.

So I check the calculations for critical strike bonus and re-do them in the following way:

(100% + Mortal Shots + Marked for Death) * RelentlessEarthstormBonus

This leads to a crit damage bonus of 148,40%

482 * ( 1 + 148,4% ) = 1197,3

This seems to be the correct value.

I continue testing the other shots:

Serpent Sting predicted tick: 303,4
Observed: 303-304

Aimed Shot predicted damage: 543 and 1349
Observed: 543-544 and 1349-1350

Arcane Shot predicted: 686 and 1631
Observed: 685-686 and 1631-1632

Multi-Shot predicted: 543 and 1292
Observed: 543-544 and 1291-1292

With that, it seems at least Marked for Death is working without a HM on the target.

Next I put up HM. I have the 110 AP bonus and 22 from the Glyph of Hunter's mark. AP tooltip is 2537 and actual is 2667.

Predicted Auto Shot: 434 and 894,1
Observed: 434-435 and 894-895

Serpent Sting: 310 tick
Observed: 310-311

Steady Shot: 525 and 1303
Observed: 525-526 and 1306

A very slight overshoot there. I have been unable to explain this. Either it's rounding errors on multiple points or I am missing something.

Arcane Shot: 742 and 1765
Observed: 745 and 1770

Both non-crit and crit are slighly higher than predicted. Again I'm not sure what causes this.

Multi-Shot: 588 and 1399
Observed: 588-589 and 1399-1400

Aimed Shot: 588 and 1462
Observed: 588-589 and 1461-1462

Chimera Shot
Last but not least, Chimera Shot itself.

Without HM predicted: 817 and 2029
Observed: 817-818 and 2030-2031

With HM predicted: 895 and 2222
Observed: 895-896 and 2222-2223

Now the CS-Serpent effect:

CS-Serpent without HM: 727 and 1457
Observed: 728 and 1732

CS-Serpent with HM: 745 and 1490
Observed: 746 and 1775

Crits much higher than expected. After checking the calculations, the predictions used the wrong critical hit bonus (it was using a flat 100% damage bonus instead of factoring in Mortal Shots and RED). After fixing that they matched the observed values correctly.

Conclusion

RangedweaponDamage = Average( low-end; high-end )
AmmoDamage = RangedSpeed * AmmoDPS

Steady Shot: BaseDamage + Normalized Weapon/Ammo Damage + AP*20%
Arcane Shot: BaseDamage + AP*15%

Auto Shot: RangedWeaponDamage + AmmoDamage + AP/14*RangedSpeed
Multi-Shot: RangedWeaponDamage + AmmoDamage + AP/14*2,8 + BonusDamage
Aimed Shot: RangedWeaponDamage + AmmoDamage + AP/14*2,8 + BonusDamage
Chimera Shot: RangedWeaponDamage + AmmoDamage + AP/14*2,8
These 4 use the same calculations, except for the strange fact AP contribution is normalized for Multi/Aimed/Chimera but not for auto

EDIT: I had Chimera as AP*20% before but 20% is of course the same as AP/14*2,8. Thanks to the reader who pointed that out!

Serpent Sting: BaseDamage + AP*20%

Untested so far:
Kill Shot (for obvious reasons)
Explosive Shot (will need to respec again)

KraxisSingular · 11/10/08, 8:54 AM

Aimed was supposed to have been normalized long ago, in fact I think it was.

However Multi never was. Given that Aimed is practically just Multi on one target with a debuff and cost less, I think what Blizzard did was a copy-paste of the Multi calculation for damage and then add the Aimed differences. So Aimed is now not normalized.
Not that I mind since Aimed needs to do as much damage as Multi obviously, or else it is practically pointless.

◊ Lactose · 11/10/08, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by - World of Warcraft Client Patch 1.10.0 (2006-03-28)

- Multi-Shot - This ability now has its attack power normalized the same as melee instant attacks. This means that the attack power contribution from all ranged weapons will be the same, no matter what their speed. All weapons will contribute attack power as if they were 2.8 speed. Weapons slower than 2.8 speed will do slightly less damage than previously; weapons faster than 2.8 speed will do slightly more damage.

- Aimed Shot - This ability now has its attack power normalized the same as melee instant attacks. This means that the attack power contribution from all ranged weapons will be the same, no matter what their speed. All weapons will contribute attack power as if they were 2.8 speed. Weapons slower than 2.8 speed will do slightly less damage than previously; weapons faster than 2.8 speed will do slightly more damage.

Bold emphasis my own.

Ammo and weapon components should be unnormalized for Aimed Shot and Multi-Shot.

I would suggest checking the Improved Tracking modifier (didn't see it listed in your tests) - I remember there being some reports that the +crit damage bonus (from the Slaying talents) was still in effect. Although I can't remember any evidence put forth, it might be worth looking into, 1 talent invested at a time.

Shandara · 11/10/08, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Lactose

Bold emphasis my own.

Ammo and weapon components should be unnormalized for Aimed Shot and Multi-Shot.

I would suggest checking the Improved Tracking modifier (didn't see it listed in your tests) - I remember there being some reports that the +crit damage bonus (from the Slaying talents) was still in effect. Although I can't remember any evidence put forth, it might be worth looking into, 1 talent invested at a time.

I didn't spec any points into BM or SV trees while doing these tests, but it might worth checking if this supposed bug is present.

- Added +20 hit rating glove enchant and renamed the +15 hit rating
- Fixed 'per item budget' rating for Mp5
- Replenishment on the buff tab now has an 'uptime' selector
- Implemented Indorra's new Hunting Party math
- Adjusted Thunderstomp according to my testing
- Fixed some buff stacking to be more clear
- Cleaned up most shot calculations to be more alike and use the same logic
- Fixed a bug with Marked for Death crit damage bonus
- adjusted Aimed/Multi Shot to use non-normalized weapon damage and ammo damage according to my testing
- CS-Serpent now crits with full Mortal Shots/RED bonus
- If you use Chimera Shot to refresh serpent sting, the calculations will now assume you used your trinket's on-use +AP procs beforehand and/or Blood Fury (orc racial) to boost the damage. 
- Blood Fury off the GCD and no longer reset by Readiness

Uploaded the version I used to test and which incorporates my various fixes.

jpwkeeper · 11/10/08, 4:06 PM

I'd like to request a very simple feature be added to this amazing spreadsheet.

The Gear Planner page only shows the top 10. Many who use this spreadsheet don't have gear that fall into that range, especially when looking for WoLK upgrades.

I'd like to propose that this page be re-structures so that the items are side-by-side instead of stacked to fit on one page and/or split into multiple tabs, and the list be expanded to be 100-200 or whatever's appropriate.

I did this with the unlocked version of the spreadsheet and, with the exception of automatic gear selection which broke, it was a very easy thing to do.

alienangel · 11/10/08, 8:09 PM

Hi Shandara,

Downloaded and configured 77a. Nearly everything matches up neatly with tests results for me now, just the following:

i. steady shot crits are slightly higher than predicted as you noticed (~6 damage for me against rats)
ii. CS-S values are still completely off. Predicted 793/1886, observed 810/1928

I'll go try shooting some trackable things now to see how the Imp Tracking is holding out.

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

Aimed was supposed to have been normalized long ago, in fact I think it was.

However Multi never was. Given that Aimed is practically just Multi on one target with a debuff and cost less, I think what Blizzard did was a copy-paste of the Multi calculation for damage and then add the Aimed differences. So Aimed is now not normalized.
Not that I mind since Aimed needs to do as much damage as Multi obviously, or else it is practically pointless.

I think you're mixing up weapon speed normalization with weapon DPS normalization. Aimed and Multi were both "normalized" at the same time, in exactly the same way - the AP contribution for them was normalized to that of a specific weapon speed, solely so that a 3.4 speed crossbow from BWL didn't become the best ranged weapon until TBC (and a level 30 green 3.4 didn't become the best ranged weapon until BWL) - their ammo and weapon dps was left untouched.

Steadyshot was the first (and I think still the only) attack that is perfectly normalized to weapon DPS.

Originally Posted by Shandara

These 4 use the same calculations, except for the strange fact AP contribution is normalized for Multi/Aimed/Chimera but not for auto

Again, this is a strange thing to say ^^; AP on autoshot can't be normalized, or it would break the concept of autoattack dps. Only specials can be normalized like that, since they shouldn't be able to cheat the AP->DPS conversion by using a really slow attack speed.

alienangel · 11/10/08, 8:26 PM

Think I can see where the CS-S discrepancy is still coming in:

Predicted Serpent Sting damage (In the Serpent Sting section): 2023
Observed Serpent Sting damage on marked target: 2026 (4 x 338 + 2x 337)

Serpent Sting damage used in the CS-S calculation: 1983

If the 2023 calculated earlier is used in the CS-S calculation, the results are much closer to what I'm seeing in game.

edit:

Results are in on Imp Tracking tests, it seems to be calculating correctly:

Predicted Autoshot on level 8 Ice Claw Bears with 112 armor: 738.5 / 1521.2
Observed Autoshots: 739/1521

Predicted Aimedshot on 112 armor bear: 1231 / 3059 (needed to remove talents from Imp Steady in spreadsheet to stop it averaging that in).
Observed Aimed: 1232 / 3058

Predicted Chimera on random level 8 beasts: 1089 / 2704
Observed Chimera: 1089 / 2704-2705

That's with track beasts, marked for death, hunter's mark, RED, FF, RWS, and some passive ArP

Cranch · 11/11/08, 2:25 AM

Originally Posted by jpwkeeper

I'd like to request a very simple feature be added to this amazing spreadsheet.

The Gear Planner page only shows the top 10. Many who use this spreadsheet don't have gear that fall into that range, especially when looking for WoLK upgrades.

I'd like to propose that this page be re-structures so that the items are side-by-side instead of stacked to fit on one page and/or split into multiple tabs, and the list be expanded to be 100-200 or whatever's appropriate.

I did this with the unlocked version of the spreadsheet and, with the exception of automatic gear selection which broke, it was a very easy thing to do.

I'd make a different suggestion. Add a 11th line that contains your current gear and the corresponding delta dps (for each slot.) It's ok if my gear appears twice. That way I can select say just LK instances and still easily see which of these would be an upgrade. In other words, the only change needed (I suggest) in gear planner is to always show your current gear on a 11th line.

jpwkeeper · 11/11/08, 8:34 AM

Originally Posted by Cranch

I'd make a different suggestion. Add a 11th line that contains your current gear and the corresponding delta dps (for each slot.) It's ok if my gear appears twice. That way I can select say just LK instances and still easily see which of these would be an upgrade. In other words, the only change needed (I suggest) in gear planner is to always show your current gear on a 11th line.

While that would be nice, it's not optimal. The only reason I disagree with you is that you can't see easier to obtain upgrades over your current gear. This will be especially crucial to hunters attempting to gear up for Naxx. Just throw the floodgates open I say and show the entire list. The full list is there in a hidden tab; all this page does is reference it.

Shandara · 11/11/08, 8:53 AM

Originally Posted by jpwkeeper

While that would be nice, it's not optimal. The only reason I disagree with you is that you can't see easier to obtain upgrades over your current gear. This will be especially crucial to hunters attempting to gear up for Naxx. Just throw the floodgates open I say and show the entire list. The full list is there in a hidden tab; all this page does is reference it.

It is what the different instance/origin selectors are for, so you can limit what you want to see.

I think the issue is a bit overstated, if you're working in a tier of instances (say for instance t4 in BC), the amount of items isn't arbitrarily large. It is, on the other hand, rather small. Can you name more than 10 belts available to people dropping in t4 content?

Possibly I could expand the selectors a bit more, but I fully expect people to click away the 'WotLK 5-man' selector once they start raiding tier8+ because that stage is past you by then (since you have completed tier7 content by then).

samfisher · 11/11/08, 10:22 AM

Hmm I believe there is an error in the spreadsheet's Hit calculation? I'm over hit cap on a lvl 73 but it still says I only have 97.73% to hit on the gear tab, and on the calculations tab, under Hit Chance it says Tooltip Value 6.73%. Didn't use to be like this with v77 =(

Is this a bug or is it something else I'm doing wrong?