WotLK DPS spreadsheet - Page 238

Beffe · 09/16/09, 7:07 PM

Vest of Shifting Shadows both normal and hc version is marked as alliance in the spreadsheet but should be marked as horde (item id: 47887 and 48026)

KraxisSingular · 09/16/09, 8:39 PM

Originally Posted by Zulsokana

They fixed that before 3.1 came out.

You misunderstand the old issue and this one. They aren't the same, even if they are related. The old bug was that Marked for Death removed the bonus from the glyph. Apparently the fix added the entire bonus onto the talent, which has lead to the glyph being passive if you have the talent (which any MM Hunter should of course).

Dch48 · 09/17/09, 1:15 AM

Originally Posted by Argg0

Mirror is indeed better than Wrathstone. Sure, less Crit, but considerably more Average AP.

Banner also has considerably more AP. Not sure if it has enough more AP to compensate the trade of 108 crit to 84 ArP...

My guess is... did you Click CalcAtributes after equiping, setting your talents and rotation? Shandra's default profile is a MM hunter.

In no way is Mirror of Truth better than Wrathstone. It's not even better than Bandit's Insignia. In the gear planner on my sheet, Mirror is not even listed. My Bandit's Insignia is #10 and The Banner of Victory is #6 wiith a dps gain of 52. Banner is better than Greatness.

Of course it all depends on your spec and the other gear you have equipped. They all work together but I still say that there is no way the Mirror can be better than Wrathstone.

alienangel · 09/17/09, 1:36 AM

Originally Posted by Dch48

In no way is Mirror of Truth better than Wrathstone. It's not even better than Bandit's Insignia. In the gear planner on my sheet, Mirror is not even listed. My Bandit's Insignia is #10 and The Banner of Victory is #6 wiith a dps gain of 52. Banner is better than Greatness.

Of course it all depends on your spec and the other gear you have equipped. They all work together but I still say that there is no way the Mirror can be better than Wrathstone.

I don't know how you can say "it all depends on your spec and gear" and then turn around and say "that there is no way the Mirror can be better than Wrathstone." Mirror was better than Fury of the Five Flights and Bandit's for me through most of T7 content, better than wrathstone through most of T8 content, and is now showing as slightly worse than wrath stone for me in T9. It's still showing as a lot better than Bandit's Insignia.

It will vary by gear and spec, but it's still probably the best T7 quality trinket around for most people (other than grim toll obviously).

suicuique · 09/17/09, 5:53 AM

Don't forget that wrathstone has a use effect though. I dont know if there is a spreadsheet/sim that values "on use" effects with respect to coordinated stacking with class talents/haste pots/burn phases/heroism.

Speaking as a fury warrior, I can firrmly state for example that every on use effect is worth at least 1.2 times the nominal value (simply macroing deathwish in combination with the use effect does the trick).
Proc trinkets on the other hand are random and as such there are worst case scenarios where they are completely non profiting from such stacking effects.

This should be a significant aspect of every trinket comparison.

baklava · 09/17/09, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

Of course critting Serpent ticks would help alleviate that to a degree.

That's what I say, Serpent ticks should help, but Expose Weakness acts like there is no crit from Serpent Sting. I think it should be considered.

Dch48 · 09/17/09, 4:08 PM

Originally Posted by alienangel

I don't know how you can say "it all depends on your spec and gear" and then turn around and say "that there is no way the Mirror can be better than Wrathstone." Mirror was better than Fury of the Five Flights and Bandit's for me through most of T7 content, better than wrathstone through most of T8 content, and is now showing as slightly worse than wrath stone for me in T9. It's still showing as a lot better than Bandit's Insignia.

It will vary by gear and spec, but it's still probably the best T7 quality trinket around for most people (other than grim toll obviously).

Well, maybe I should clarify that I am one of the few remaining regularly raiding BM Hunters. For my spec, Mirror has never been better than Wrath or even Bandit's. Yes things have changed somewhat with each new version of the sheet but it is still the case now. I'll take the slightly lower DPS (only about 3% with the same gear) to be able to more easily approach my max and also for the fun and security of having a pet that can tear things up and take the heat off me at least temporarily. I'll also take a use trinket over a proc one so I can be sure that it's benefits are applied when they are the most beneficial.

I also have worked out the 3 specs for 3.2.2 and they are nearly equal in DPS with the changes to ArP and TBW/BW. Less than 170 DPS of difference between the best (SV) and the last (BM). With my gear, that puts BM within 2.2% of SV. I also changed out gems and enchants for the 3 specs.

Lilyana · 09/17/09, 8:12 PM

Tier 9 2-set bonus: Please note that Serpent Sting crits on the dummy give pet focus via Go For The Throat talent, not currently modelled in the sheet. This is a minor DPS gain for MM/SV but a potentially much larger one for BM.

Caip� · 09/18/09, 8:41 PM

Hey,

[Paragon's Breadth] has 97 haste and 63 arp
but in the last spreadsheet the item hast 63 haste and 97 arp

akbinhil · 09/19/09, 8:20 AM

Just some info about the tier-9 for your next build (some of this has been said):

Serpent Sting crits proc GFTT
Serpent Sting crits seem based off of ranged crit not spell crit (thank god)
Serpent Sting initial hit procs 4-piece
Serpent Sting dots do not proc 4-piece
Despite some rumors going around, the +600 ap does not apply to the hunter as well, although the buff icon appears on the hunter too (does that mean it can be dispelled?)

Looks like it's still a "meh" bonus. It's up almost right after the ICD every test, and seems to add 50 dps-ish to an unbuffed wolf pet against the boss-level dummy. I will point out, however, that 50% crit chance twice every 6 seconds is a god-send for movement fights and pet focus.

Norest · 09/20/09, 7:47 AM

The Spreadsheet doesn't seem to be supporting the T1 Relentless ranged weapons, only the T2 ones.

bossmansmith · 09/21/09, 8:19 AM

I have a question about Gems and Agility stacking. From what i have read from numerous websites a BM hunter should stack AP over Agility however your spreadsheet rates at almost twice the value of AP. Is this spreadsheet created mainly for SV or MM or is the difference in your valuations for BM intentional?

Also, there is no Kill Command option in your shot rotation?

Enova · 09/21/09, 10:18 AM

There's a Yes/No check for Kill Command in the Settings sheet, under the Pet Options category.

As for the AP gems, I'm pretty sure their value is accurate. The way I understand it, none of the calculations in the spreadsheet need to assign values to stats, and all the values are only derived after running the calculations.
Usually it's only in pre-raid gear and maybe first tier of an expansion where AP is really superior to agility for gemming. Even during the high dps periods of the BM spec, the gem of choice was Agi.

Azurion · 09/21/09, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by bossmansmith

I have a question about Gems and Agility stacking. From what i have read from numerous websites a BM hunter should stack AP over Agility however your spreadsheet rates at almost twice the value of AP. Is this spreadsheet created mainly for SV or MM or is the difference in your valuations for BM intentional?

Also, there is no Kill Command option in your shot rotation?

When you look at dps per budget you should get the right number. If you see the difference from "DPS" as opposed to "dps per budget", you can see that "dps per budget" is always double the amount of what you see under "DPS". Which means that per item budget you get 2 AP, and on the other hand per item budget of agi you only get 1 agi.

Thats the number you should be using when looking at which stat is better. So no, the spreadsheet isnt built around SV or MM. And Kill Command isnt in the shot rotation per se, it's just macroed to an ability and used whenever it is available.

pabelanger · 09/21/09, 2:58 PM

Didn't see it posted in the thread, but [Coren's Chromium Coaster] drops from brewfest, same stats as [Mirror of Truth].